Tanks vs Brutes

Alright this what I figured so far, brutes with fury at least, does more damage overall than a tank, or at least it feels like. But tanks primary is stronger in resistance than brutes and also have more hp.


Now From what I've experienced. KEYWORDS:What I've experienced! is that while tanks tend to be more of a lumbering pace in dispatching mobs but still get job done, brutes tend to be more berserker get in there kill anything in sight quickly type.

In what situations would a tanker shine where a brute dont. And what areas would a brute shine that a tanker wont or rather out shine each other persay.

Note: I'm talking about without SOs standard baselines. And no defense based sets (I want to stay on topic this time). To make it easier say the pros/cons of a Electric Armor/energy melee tank vs energy melee/electric armor brute. Especially focused on large teams and or iTrials.

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Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Tanks shine when the Brute can't stay up. If the Brute is capable of staying up, the Brute is probably going to be more useful.

Both are very resilient so it's more a matter of when you pass the survivability of the Brute but not yet of the Tank. Some of these situations include:

At low level where the Brute doesn't have IO sets, but the inherently higher mitigation and HP of the Tanker is enough.
On 'weak teams' where the Brute doesn't get support from the team, but the inherently "" "".

TLDR: Tanks get to being tanky earlier and require basically no support. Brutes eventually approach this to the point that the difference isn't noticeable for the vast majority of content.

Tankers have two major advantages over Brutes. They have higher defense modifiers, which means they'll hit their defense potential earlier and can build for other things. They also get an AoE taunt on their single target powers, which makes holding on to large spawns much easier.

Generally speaking, a Brute is a better tank if (and only if) he is built for enough protection and has enough support that he can survive a beating designed for a Tanker. A Tanker will be a better tank if the support is limited, such as in the summer event or on a small group. Note also that Incarnate abilities allow the Tanker to close the gap somewhat on the Brute, a well built Tanker should be able to hold aggro over a Brute if the Tanker is using taunt and the Brute is not.


Generally speaking, I prefer Tankers as tanks in groups, just because you know what you're getting. Many Brutes are built for dps, especially while leveling, and end up splattered when they get to an enemy that actually needs to be tanked. Tankers are not only more resilient out of the box, but they tend to draw players who actually want to tank and are built to tank. It's more noticeable in PuG's than in formal groups or leagues, but it still shows.

Tank: Hard to kill, hard to kill other things.
Brute: Slightly less hard to kill, WAY BETTER at killing other things.

Also, you might be surprised to know the sky is blue, water is wet and bears do, indeed, crap in the woods.

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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Tankers are the toughest class in the game and also happen to do the least melee damage.

Tanker:
-Greater survivability, thus is more likely to be able to stay up regardless of team composition and enemy group.
-Bruising (the resistance debuff in the tier 1 attack) is helpful in a team fight against an archvillain
-Greater aggro modifier means that enemies are more likely to group up in melee on them. This is a big help to teammates with area powers.

Brute:
-Much greater personal damage output.
-Survivability is lower, but in many situations and for most people it's "good enough".

To answer the original question...

"In what situations would a tanker shine where a brute dont. And what areas would a brute shine that a tanker wont or rather out shine each other persay."

The tanker will do better when on a team with little defensive support or on teams with a lot of blasters/debuffing people who are capable of doing amazing things if you just line the enemies up for them. The brute will do better while solo, while on a team that's well rounded and doesn't need more defense, and when IOd to the gills so that there's very little they can't survive that a tank can.

There's also a big difference in their playstyle, of course.

o.0

Weren't we talking about Tanks vs. Brutes?

Is there a special Smarmy Tommy Lee Jones loophole somewhere that allows Tanks to have Fury?

My SS/Inv Brute doesn't have Soul Mastery, will not ever use Gloom (I don't give a pancake what the DPS is, she's a Supergirl), and still makes my poor Tanker cry with the amount of damage she can put out while being as, if not more, survivable (even when she was level 41 and using generic IOs.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

They are both fun; play whichever you prefer.

But if you play a tanker...please actually tank. I'm always baffled by players that run tanks and seem to think they are a scrapper or brute. If you don't want to hold aggro for a team and be a team player or you want to be a primary damage dealer, then make a scrapper or a brute. It's better for all involved. You'll have more fun, and your teammates wont be dismayed when you run around facesmashing while everyone else gets shot to hell.

If you want a low cost, survivable build the tank is an option. If you're going to plough some money into it go Brute; nearly as survivable and way more damage.

My level 42 Tanker lives through things that turn my level 50 Brute into a grease spot.

Yes, Brutes deal more damage, but there's a catch to that: You have to be ALIVE to deal damage. If a Brute's survivability is not up to the task of keeping him alive, the Tanker will deal more damage over time, due to not spending as much time on the floor.

When IOs are extensively used, the difference is not great. But on SOs, the Tanker survivability advantage is significant. Why is that relevant? Because there are a whole lot of new players in the game now that IOs are not even an option for.

I see the point you're trying to make here, Claws, but consider this:

Compare SS/Inv to Inv/SS: Both built the same way, full SS/Inv maxed to the gills for S/L defense, Max HP, Regen, the whole shebang.

The time it takes to defeat one +4/x8 spawn of, say, Council is wildly different between the tank and the Brute. Both survive.

The time it takes for the same spawn of, say, Carnies, is still wildly different, because the Brute can defeat them so much more quickly. It's a scale. The quicker enemies are defeated the less time is needed to survive those enemies' attacks.

You're right, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

YOU AGAIN! My nemesis.



The tank has floundered with Liberteene's rise to AWESOMESAUCE. For me personally, why would I spend another billion inf on the same build?

Perhaps, one day, I'll make another Tanker, but that day is not today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

How isn't it the same build? Other than the Def being a little higher, the Res being moderately higher, and the damage being significantly lower? That's not a difference in builds, it's an inherent difference in the base AT values.

By "same build" I mean same powers, same slotting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Good information here so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

SS is something that Brutes can leverage better, poor comparison, SS is also FAR better with Gloom, without it, you're missing the much bigger picture.

Compare TW Brute vs Tank...the base values for TW are much higher and you'll find the numbers far more comparable vs the disparity with SS because double stacking rage is extremely important to SS. Without Rage SS is not even in the same continent for damage as TW.

Also, Tanks have higher survivability...by 10% more HP, 25% more base Def and Resists, an AoE taunt per attack to better hold aggro. They are built to do what they do best, protect the team by taking damage and surviving.

Brutes have to take and deal damage to build fury...therefore they are going to play inherently differently from the start. As will brutes and scrappers play differently as well. Scrappers get the luxury of being able to engage and disengage at will without penalty of losing damage output (plus critical hits that double damage on a given strike), brutes are afforded no such luxuries and brutes get a taunt in their attacks on the one NPC they hit, not on all the ones surrounding that NPC like tanks get.

Similarly buffed, for survival Tanks > Brutes, always...