i24 /devices 'Cloak' changes


-Urchin-

 

Posted

I have been playing energy device blaster since release.

Cloaking Device grants a blaster a little stealth and tiny +def at a small -endurance cost. What they do not explain about this power is the effect is only useful out-of-combat because it is suppressed (though you stay transparent?!) in-combat.. And, well, defense is only really useful when things are trying to hit you! Of course that stealth bonus, that goes away in combat too... so this is an OUT OF COMBAT sort of power. (Do not spend endurance on this in-combat unless you like being transparent like a 'stalker' yuck yuck.)

I take it only as a set mule for LoTGs Recharge bonus (x5!)... Using this power turns your character (and outfit) Transparent and hard to see. This is a neat effect, the first 20 or so times you see it, but then, it begins to pale.. (one reason I suspect stalkers are not more popular.)

And now, the DEVs, trying to Help! blasters like me, are going to, buff this un-useful pool power (wait, its a pool power in my secondary?!). Yes we take that power, but Nobody (should) Use It! Its just a waste of endurance in combat! Makes you impossible to see, makes it hard to position, friends to spot you (''you were with us tonight?!''), its a pain. There is no combat advantage to this power in a set that lacks, well, much of any combat advantage! Both the attacks in this set are OUT OF COMBAT too!!

All the other set's have their upcoming regen and recovery in powers they actually want to use, or that the base effect has an In-Combat bonus! Not Cloaking (Field Agent or whatever) Device.

Please dear superhero gods, please just put this effect on a power we actually WANT TO USE IN COMBAT! (Targeting drone only buffs to-hit.. that is just one base effect, put it on that! If you need a better suggestion than a power like Cloaking device that i have reasons to Not Want running on my character in-combat..)


 

Posted

The only cloaking going on around here is the cloaking of fairness and justice for /devices blasters. Once a proud people, Synapse's boot heel now presses down on our throats as he madly cackles into the night. A torch is lit in remembrance, but who will be there to see it? Only the shadows of those who once dwelled in this hallowed place. For shame, Paragon Studios, for shame.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy_Heart View Post
Please dear superhero gods, please just put this effect on a power we actually WANT TO USE IN COMBAT! (Targeting drone only buffs to-hit.. that is just one base effect, put it on that! If you need a better suggestion than a power like Cloaking device that i have reasons to Not Want running on my character in-combat..)


Last edited by Candy_Heart; Today at 10:37 AM. Reason: I dont want it running on my character out of combat either! I do not want Invisibility forced on me at all!
Ok, I've read your post twice over, and I fail to see how you are "forced" to take this power. If you don't like it, feel it's useless, etc, then take a different power. Sure, you'll be losing a LotG mule, but if your toon lives or dies based on one 7.5% global recharge, then your build has deeper issues. IMO, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy_Heart View Post
I have been playing energy device blaster since release.
I need to add this to my CoX Forum drinking game rules... "Whenever a post begins by saying 'I've been (doing X) for (amount of time)' take a drink."


 

Posted

I suppose I'm just loopy and crazy...I'm the opposite.

If I have a stealth power that is making it hard for the enemy to see me, I think it damned well better look like it's hard to see me. If Cloaking Devices is a stealth power, it better make it look like the foe isn't a blind idiot standing 10ft away from me yet doesn't notice me shooting off his buddy's leg standing right next to him. Also, when I'm bleeding out of both ends and limping to the next group of foes, I don't want *ANYONE* to see me until after I patch myself up.

For costumes/looks: I've always loved looking at my characters...if they don't have a look that I like, I wouldn't ever come back to play that character...but I do. But even then, you're not going to want to see them *constantly* even when you dang well shouldn't. In an action movie, where the hero that you love and adore is sneaking past security, don't you think it should look like he's actually sneaking around and going unnoticed? Why be blatantly visible for all to see despite all logic? If you want to sit back and admire the rear of the comic hero, I say do that in appropriate situations like when they're not sneaking about or bleeding from it. You can always toggle off stealth when the team is just gathering to start combat or discussing the next mission or just chatting. When it's time to load your guns and move into battle, looks aren't as important.

Disclaimer: all IMO of course...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
The only cloaking going on around here is the cloaking of fairness and justice for /devices blasters. Once a proud people, Synapse's boot heel now presses down on our throats as he madly cackles into the night. A torch is lit in remembrance, but who will be there to see it? Only the shadows of those who once dwelled in this hallowed place. For shame, Paragon Studios, for shame.
Hear, hear!

Nerf stealth!
Do it for the children!


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Having a Sonic/Devices blaster, I have always found Cloaking Device quite useful simply for the stealth it provides, which allows me to make better use of Sirens Song. I can see other primaries not finding as useful before.

However, with the upcoming change adding sustain to the power, I think it will be much better for the majority of /Devices users. The minimal amount of endurance required to run the power (if that cost remains) will be easily swamped out by the endurance it will provide.

I could see some players not liking the translucency forced on their character when using the power. Perhaps they could add a No Fade option for it in the editor like some other fading powers have.


 

Posted

With me trying to dig up stuff on Energy changes, I thought I read somewhere that they are considering making a bunch of changes on how characters look. Basically have a way to suppress the stealth component. I am pretty sure Stalkers have that option now. But I think they are looking to have the option for example to suppress the look of Stone so you could actually have a costume if you like.

But beyond that I find Cloaking Device very useful for my build in obtaining range defense cap (via suppression of course).

Cloak + Super Speed + Smoke Grenade allows me to fight mobs groups that are very close to each other without getting aggro from that smoked mob. That same combo with Hover or a Jet Pack allows me to navigate though caves in stealth mode as well. This also allows me to start fights in larger caves instead of narrow tunnels.

End result I can choose where I want to start the fight.

I am happy of the addition to Cloaking Device that i24 will bring.

I do feel that Device still needs some changes. But I'm not gonna lie when I say part of me hopes they don't do anything big with Trip mine or Time bomb because I just don't use them on my AR Device, because I feel they are limited and slow me down. I think the respec I did for i24 changes for my personal build are awesome for me. Not one power wasted and not one set bonus wasted. End result everything is offering something to the build without being a mule set. But I know if they do some cool changes to either bomb it will drive me nuts trying to figure out how to add them into yet another new build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
The only cloaking going on around here is the cloaking of fairness and justice for /devices blasters. Once a proud people, Synapse's boot heel now presses down on our throats as he madly cackles into the night. A torch is lit in remembrance, but who will be there to see it? Only the shadows of those who once dwelled in this hallowed place. For shame, Paragon Studios, for shame.
QFT.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
I do feel that Device still needs some changes. But I'm not gonna lie when I say part of me hopes they don't do anything big with Trip mine or Time bomb because I just don't use them on my AR Device, because I feel they are limited and slow me down. I think the respec I did for i24 changes for my personal build are awesome for me. Not one power wasted and not one set bonus wasted. End result everything is offering something to the build without being a mule set. But I know if they do some cool changes to either bomb it will drive me nuts trying to figure out how to add them into yet another new build.
Hmm, why do you feel underperforming powers shouldn't be improved?

Is it because, if they were improved, you'd feel you suddenly 'have' to take these powers?

Again, maybe I'm crazy, but why not just keep your build how it is regardless of how other powers are changed then make a *new* character that takes advantage of changes or other additions?

I mean, I built a Fire/SD brute a long while ago that only took the sword attacks + Breath of Fire. If the devs decided to improve on of the non-sword FM attacks, am I suppose to be compelled to change my character's concept and build for it? Or am I just going to have to realize I created this character and build with some powers being outside of those parameters and live with it?

Same here. I made an arc/dev blaster *because* of Trip Mine and hopefully eventually Time Bomb. It'd be nice if those powers were made more usable.


 

Posted

This isn't directed at the OP in particular but he is expressing a sentiment that I've seen a few times in regard to the Blaster sustain changes, specifically: "why are you adding the buff to a power that I don't want to use?" I've seen this complaint made about pretty much EVERY Blaster secondary.

Frankly I find this sentiment really, really illogical. Of course the devs are going to add the buffs to unpopular powers. While the sustain mechanic is primarily intended as a general buff for Blasters the devs are also taking advantage of this to make some of the less useful Blaster powers useful. Adding the sustain buffs to powers that people are already using (such as Targeting Drone) effectively reinforces the notion that Blaster secondaries are a waste and that Blasters can get away with almost skipping them entirely.

So yeah, the sustain changes are buffing powers a lot of people don't like because buffing powers that everyone already uses would be stupid from a balance perspective. That being said there are two secondaries where I think the powers should change, Electrical where I think the knockback should be changed to knockdown (or at least give a non-damage set KB suppressor IO) and Mental which I think should be rebalanced to work better on SOs.

Speaking for myself I'm psyched to see the buff added to Cloaking Device, I already run the power all the time (for looks as much as anything) and one of my long-standing grievances with Devices is that it has a glorified pool-power in it. So now Cloaking Device is no longer a glorified pool power which makes me really happy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elf_Sniper View Post
I need to add this to my CoX Forum drinking game rules... "Whenever a post begins by saying 'I've been (doing X) for (amount of time)' take a drink."
An ounce per year?

As a tangent, I can't wait to see how goofy someone will look running super slow in their regular costume while granite is running.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Frankly I find this sentiment really, really illogical. Of course the devs are going to add the buffs to unpopular powers.
The irony here is...I've never thought of Cloaking Device as being an unpopular power. Most every /Dev blaster I've ever seen (including mine) HAS cloaking device. Hell...if you were to ask me...CD is one of the major reasons TO take up /dev...to say nothing of Targeting Drone.

I'd say that if there is any general "unpopularity" with it...it would be in the area of slot devotion. Most folks (short of min/maxers, perhaps) may just leave it at the default slot and call it done...which in and of itself isn't really bad. CD can be a good default slot power choice...for what it does. But it's flexible enough to help someone squeeze a little more out of it via IO slotting and set bonuses. I-24 is just gonna expand that even more-so....and even then could still do quite a bit with minimal slotting. Like say...the LotG +rech and the Numi's +regen/recovery? Maybe?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaikenX View Post
The irony here is...I've never thought of Cloaking Device as being an unpopular power. Most every /Dev blaster I've ever seen (including mine) HAS cloaking device. Hell...if you were to ask me...CD is one of the major reasons TO take up /dev...to say nothing of Targeting Drone.
Yeah most Devices Blasters take it but then a lot of non-devices Blasters take Stealth since a bit of stealth is a pretty useful tool for a Blaster. Objectively CD isn't that much better than Stealth which is why I classed it as an "unpopular" power. It's used but is virtually replaceable by a pool power. If I were going to class thye powers that are a big draw for Devices I would say it's Targeting Drone, Caltrops and Smoke Grenade (for stealthing guarded glowies).


 

Posted

Cloaking Device + stealth unique in hover =

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Yeah most Devices Blasters take it but then a lot of non-devices Blasters take Stealth since a bit of stealth is a pretty useful tool for a Blaster. Objectively CD isn't that much better than Stealth which is why I classed it as an "unpopular" power. It's used but is virtually replaceable by a pool power. If I were going to class thye powers that are a big draw for Devices I would say it's Targeting Drone, Caltrops and Smoke Grenade (for stealthing guarded glowies).
And oddly...i never took caltrops. Go figure.

Well...actually...I did at one time...the later specced out of it. Course, this was in the old days before IO's and procs that could make 'trops pretty beastly.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Cloaking Device + stealth unique in hover =
I find Super Speed to be a better cheaper alternative...I mean, I already have Hasten to more easily lay out my mines, so why not super speed?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
I find Super Speed to be a better cheaper alternative...I mean, I already have Hasten to more easily lay out my mines, so why not super speed?
I like to hoverblast, but yeah, also a good combo. Cloaking device is faboo and turning it into Field Operative just makes it even better.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy_Heart View Post
What they do not explain about this power is the effect is only useful out-of-combat because it is suppressed (though you stay transparent?!) in-combat.. And, well, defense is only really useful when things are trying to hit you! Of course that stealth bonus, that goes away in combat too... so this is an OUT OF COMBAT sort of power.
This isn't true. The stealth and defense only partially suppress. This means that cloaking device can reduce the chance of accidentally attracting the attention of a nearby group while you're in combat.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garent View Post
This isn't true. The stealth and defense only partially suppress. This means that cloaking device can reduce the chance of accidentally attracting the attention of a nearby group while you're in combat.
How...

How...

How dare you confuse this issue by introducing FACTS??!?

Don't you know that discussion of power selection/slotting can ONLY be based on hearsay, rumor, idle speculation, and bald-faced lies??!?

I kid, I kid

Seriously, anyone know offhand what the actual numbers are "out of combat" vs "in combat"?


 

Posted



Uhh... ::checks mids:: It's 15' stealth in combat and 35' out of combat. Its defense bonus gets halved to 1.75% when suppressed. So it's exactly the same as power pool stealth except a little less than half of its stealth won't suppress.

In my opinion, it's like a lot of blaster powers: rather weak, but not as useless as people tend to think.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaikenX View Post
The irony here is...I've never thought of Cloaking Device as being an unpopular power. Most every /Dev blaster I've ever seen (including mine) HAS cloaking device. Hell...if you were to ask me...CD is one of the major reasons TO take up /dev...to say nothing of Targeting Drone.
This. I'm not really sure what the OP is talking about.

No stealth power is 'weak'. It's a key utility that I try to fit in on all characters via Super Speed, IOs, etc.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

*Ahem*
*In best Mr. Burns Voice* Gentlemen, I do believe this troll thread has been a complete success. Now for phase two of our operation.

-Release the hounds.-


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Hmm, why do you feel underperforming powers shouldn't be improved?

Is it because, if they were improved, you'd feel you suddenly 'have' to take these powers?

Again, maybe I'm crazy, but why not just keep your build how it is regardless of how other powers are changed then make a *new* character that takes advantage of changes or other additions?

I mean, I built a Fire/SD brute a long while ago that only took the sword attacks + Breath of Fire. If the devs decided to improve on of the non-sword FM attacks, am I suppose to be compelled to change my character's concept and build for it? Or am I just going to have to realize I created this character and build with some powers being outside of those parameters and live with it?

Same here. I made an arc/dev blaster *because* of Trip Mine and hopefully eventually Time Bomb. It'd be nice if those powers were made more usable.
Because of the number of level 50 toons I have it become a real pain in the back side to respec them the way the system is now. If I could just move slots from one power to another or respec one or two powers, then I might not be sweating it.

But if they make Trip mine more interesting in the ways others and myself have requested in the past it will be tough not to pick it up. I like the new shiny sometimes. And I admitting jumped the gun on a few respecs in anticipation of i24.

I just hate respecing that much.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Because of the number of level 50 toons I have it become a real pain in the back side to respec them the way the system is now. If I could just move slots from one power to another or respec one or two powers, then I might not be sweating it.

But if they make Trip mine more interesting in the ways others and myself have requested in the past it will be tough not to pick it up. I like the new shiny sometimes. And I admitting jumped the gun on a few respecs in anticipation of i24.

I just hate respecing that much.
Then use alt builds instead of full respecs.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Then use alt builds instead of full respecs.
Its the whole process which is annoying. Pick the powers, then pick the slots, then add the IOs.

I purchased the extra tray because I hated loosing IOs during a respec.

Plus which is very annoying is I have to keep my VM running with Mids and sort of split screen it on my Mac to see how many slots go where as I can't remember it all. I can tell you I ended up several times with one extra or being one short a IO slot or putting 5 slots in one power, where I wanted 6 and 6 in the slot I wanted 5. Sometimes I don't notice this until I start slotting IO's.

Using the 2nd build means I need ALL NEW IO's. Which is something I honestly cannot afford to do.

End result they really making respecing more work then it should be. So instead of being fun at getting a new build. Its more like Oh Gosh I need to waste over an hour to respec all this stuff.

It feels like work which = not fun for me.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Its the whole process which is annoying. Pick the powers, then pick the slots, then add the IOs.

I purchased the extra tray because I hated loosing IOs during a respec.

Plus which is very annoying is I have to keep my VM running with Mids and sort of split screen it on my Mac to see how many slots go where as I can't remember it all. I can tell you I ended up several times with one extra or being one short a IO slot or putting 5 slots in one power, where I wanted 6 and 6 in the slot I wanted 5. Sometimes I don't notice this until I start slotting IO's.

Using the 2nd build means I need ALL NEW IO's. Which is something I honestly cannot afford to do.

End result they really making respecing more work then it should be. So instead of being fun at getting a new build. Its more like Oh Gosh I need to waste over an hour to respec all this stuff.

It feels like work which = not fun for me.
And such is Murphey's Law of Respecs. Just when you think you've got everything juuussssst where you want it...the devs go and up and change everything that makes you have to repeat the process aaaaalllllllll over again. LOL!

c'est la vie du MMO. (probably got that wrong as i never actually took french...kinda regret it in a way)


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