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I have and use the power as it is to great benefit on my Sonic/Devices. I quite like the fade affect which is very much a part of the look and feel of my character.|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Is this thread a joke ? , people are complaining about cool transparency .
Does cloacking device turn you into a blurry big black spot of ink ? No it turns you into a transparent looking toon , if zoomed in you can still see the details . And people complain about that ? I give up some people should have played CoH original . Where Cloak of Darkness , yes that was ruining your outfit . By turning you into a big black spot of ink . And getting it changed had half the forum people flaming me . But cloaking device , heck no it is awesome , even for roleplay .  You take it turn it on in combat , turn it off after combat . Done deal , but to cry you must take that power ? That gives you as much defense even supressed as combat jumping , gives you almost as much stealth as invisible , and still able to act . Is too worthless ? ... if it wasn't for cloaking device , you couldn't even place your time bomb up close . |
However, I also understand that not everyone thinks fading is cool, and that the graphic effect won't fit with every character concept, and that some would rather role-play a character with stealth based on something other than transparency.
I wouldn't be adverse to a black blob of ink being added back in as an option either. Some may want to pair that look with Dark Blast, or simply think that "fading to black (or whatever colour)" is cool.
The more options the better, in my view.
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If you checked the black blob of ink is still there , no fade , I do not have trouble with at all.|
Originally Posted by -Urchin-
I have and use the power as it is to great benefit on my Sonic/Devices. I quite like the fade affect which is very much a part of the look and feel of my character.
However, I also understand that not everyone thinks fading is cool, and that the graphic effect won't fit with every character concept, and that some would rather role-play a character with stealth based on something other than transparency. I wouldn't be adverse to a black blob of ink being added back in as an option either. Some may want to pair that look with Dark Blast, or simply think that "fading to black (or whatever colour)" is cool. The more options the better, in my view. |
But the OP sounded like her opnion must be law , infact invis is very much loved by women.
Cloaking device is the same , now would it hurt to have a no fade option ?
No , more options the beter .
But is cloaking device such a burden , since she already has it .
For LOTG , to switch on and off in combat and after combat ?
Sorry if you really cannot stand the concept of cloaking device for Roleplay .
Then just don't take it , her argument seems more like , RP drama arguments about a power.
We had mastermind pistols running around without henchmen , severly gimped .
people didn't complain that much .
You want to play a certain concept accept the penalties , especially for roleplay purpose .
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Yup. Characterizing the aesthetic of cloak as a debuff was her first mistake. It was downhill from there as she ranted about how Cloak's DEF and +stealth are useless -- which of course they aren't.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
There isn't one, as far as I know, and I do not believe anyone has argued against adding the no fade option. If the OP had simply said, "Now that this power is going to be more desirable, I would really like the no fade option added," I believe they would have garnered nothing but agreement, support, and positive feedback.
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As is so often the case, the OP would have been better off saying less. I'm sure we're all in favor of more cosmetic options, but the OP wanted to argue not just that she dislikes Cloaking Device; she wanted to make a case that Cloaking Device is undeniably the least attractive power in Devices for everyone, which is preposterous. On the contrary, CD's probably the most widely appealing power, from a mechanical standpoint, in the entire Devices' set. It's certainly the only Devices power to which I often wish my non-Devices' Blasters had access.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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It's not a matter of how she presented a request for a No Fade option....|
Originally Posted by -Urchin-
Yes, indeed, her request wasn't framed in the best way.
I'm choosing to ignore the faults in her presentation and supporting the No Fade option despite them, because I think the benefits of the change related to character concept outweigh that which would be gained from me not supporting it due to the nature of her post. |
....it's that as far as I could tell....she never mentioned it in her whining about being transparent.
If I had seen her say something about it, I might have done the same thing and supported that part while ignoring the rest. But I didn't see anywhere that she did.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Characterizing them as useless is a subjective opinion. Characterizing them as non-existent in combat and sticking with that assertion in the face of factual correction is being in love with being wrong.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
Yup. Characterizing the aesthetic of cloak as a debuff was her first mistake. It was downhill from there as she ranted about how Cloak's DEF and +stealth are useless -- which of course they aren't.
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As to the unwilling stealth thing, as I mentioned above the devs will be almost *forced* to address that because it would otherwise mean /Devices blasters would have to give up Sustain to run escort missions reasonably. I don't know how they would explain that problem if they didn't address it mechanically.
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See what we need is a "fireman's carry" power where instead of leading the escort out you just toss them over your shoulders and carry them out (Villains get a different animation where you knock them unconscious first for kidnapping missions).
For balance this could render you unable to attack while carrying the escortee 
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On a more serious note, I always figured that the easiest way to fix escorts and stealth would be to give them really really high perception so they can always see you though stealth (or give them whatever those bloody Rikti drones have).
EDIT: Considering how long Stalkers have been asking for a change like this I really doubt that the devs will implement it just to avoid upsetting Devices Blasters anyway.
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The difference is that the CoV devs declared that problem to be working as intended as a weakness of (stalker) stealth. That exemption carried forward to today, where the devs see it as a problem but one that has a low priority to fix (and when they tried and failed to fix it, oh well). But I don't see how the devs are going to argue that /devices was deliberately intended to have its sustain fail in those missions uniquely among all blasters.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
EDIT: Considering how long Stalkers have been asking for a change like this I really doubt that the devs will implement it just to avoid upsetting Devices Blasters anyway.
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I'm not sure. I mean you can make an argument that except for Energy all of the sustain powers have situations where they can't be used. Admittedly Devices has a stronger weakness than most but there will be cases where a Blaster can't use their sustain for all secondaries except Energy.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But I don't see how the devs are going to argue that /devices was deliberately intended to have its sustain fail in those missions uniquely among all blasters.
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I've just wondered why they didn't add Sustain to Targeting Drone instead.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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For the same reason they didn't add it to powers like Soul Drain, Power Boost or Build Up. The sustain powers are all ones that were pretty marginal so adding the sustain makes them more desirable. Adding it to powers that everyone already loves (like Targeting Drone) wouldn't encourage more use of Blaster Secondaries. Something to remember about cloaking Device is that despite the people talking about how much they like it at the end of the day it isn't really that much better than Stealth. It's a neat power but it's very unlikely someone will take Devices just for Cloaking Device. Well with the sustain changes that is no longer true, Devices has the only Sustain that is both a toggle (and thus low maintenance) and won't aggro enemies, the stealth feature is just a nice bonus. Every other sustain either aggros nearby enemies or is a click power 9or both).
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
I've just wondered why they didn't add Sustain to Targeting Drone instead.
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When would you be unable to use Frigid Protection, Force of Thunder, or Cauterizing Aura?
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I'm not sure. I mean you can make an argument that except for Energy all of the sustain powers have situations where they can't be used. Admittedly Devices has a stronger weakness than most but there will be cases where a Blaster can't use their sustain for all secondaries except Energy.
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Actually, the way Arbiter Hawk described the thought process to me the intent was to ensure that every secondary received the sustain buff at about the same time, and definitely before SOs arrive and the game steps up. Level 20 coincidentally contained just the right power for a sustain effect except energy manipulation whose overwhelmingly obvious candidate sits at level 16.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
For the same reason they didn't add it to powers like Soul Drain, Power Boost or Build Up. The sustain powers are all ones that were pretty marginal so adding the sustain makes them more desirable. Adding it to powers that everyone already loves (like Targeting Drone) wouldn't encourage more use of Blaster Secondaries. Something to remember about cloaking Device is that despite the people talking about how much they like it at the end of the day it isn't really that much better than Stealth. It's a neat power but it's very unlikely someone will take Devices just for Cloaking Device. Well with the sustain changes that is no longer true, Devices has the only Sustain that is both a toggle (and thus low maintenance) and won't aggro enemies, the stealth feature is just a nice bonus. Every other sustain either aggros nearby enemies or is a click power 9or both).
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It'd be almost the equivalent of telling SR Stalkers -- and only SR Stalkers -- that their entire secondary should shut off in escort situations. Stalkers as a whole AT lose Hide; they don't lose all of their defenses in escort missions.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Admittedly Devices has a stronger weakness than most but there will be cases where a Blaster can't use their sustain for all secondaries except Energy.
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Arcana makes a good point. The escort thing will have to be addressed for Devices Blasters. This issue also neatly encapsulates why I hope that Drain Psyche will be retooled in I-24.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I wish there were a "fade/no-fade" option for CD. I really dislike the transparency for a number of reasons that have already been mentioned, and also because it's unnerving when I can't (visually) find my own self in a crowd. Why is it that the costumes I'm most pleased with are on my illusionist, /devices, and night widow?
Even more than this, though, what my OCD side has wanted for awhile now is for all the stealth and invisible powers to be consistent.
Superior Invisibility in illusion set is a visually transparent power, but this makes sense to me, since if I'm using SI, I can bump into foes and STILL not be seen. Though I still dislike the transparency, it makes sense.
Cloaking Device, however, has the about the same graphics, yet unless I'm using super speed, I'm pretty easily seen, just like using Stealth from the pool powers. But the visual effects of Stealth make the user only semi-transparent. This does not make sense to me. I "should" be semi-transparent, when I'm only semi-invisible.
In my own perfect world, we would have the "fade/no-fade" option available for all the stealth powers. Additionally, the varying levels of stealth (which we could opt out of) would be inherently consistent: 1) totally transparent would visually indicate a level of stealth which allows you to bump into the enemy and still remain undetected, and 2) semi-transparency for any powers which grant a lesser degree of stealth ability.
(edit: am recovering from a nasty bug - please forgive if I've used some wrong terms for stealth or invisible here, am mentally a little fuzzy around the edges)
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Well Force of Thunder would be a bad idea if you were doing the Abandoned Sewer Trial and were near to any enemies. Bowling Rikti off the catwalks is fun until they all come back.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
When would you be unable to use Frigid Protection, Force of Thunder, or Cauterizing Aura?
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Cauterizing Aura would be risky in the TPN trial, make sure to stay away from cameras
.You probably want to turn Frigid Protection off during the glowies phase of Lambda. The extra regen isn't worth the aggro you'll attract.
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And I'm not really seeing the big difference between the issue device blasters will have and several other powers. Not only stalkers as has already been mentioned, but the numerous ones who have shadowfall, steamy mist, and arctic fog. Those offer significant protection and have to be shut off during escorts. In fact those are even more of an issue imho as those mess up the escort tracking for not only that player, but usually the whole team. It almost gets to the point where I need a macro, "turn off shadowfall! or x or y " everytime I do an escort mission on a team as at least one person invariably has one of those aoe stealth powers and fails to turn it off.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
It'd be almost the equivalent of telling SR Stalkers -- and only SR Stalkers -- that their entire secondary should shut off in escort situations. Stalkers as a whole AT lose Hide; they don't lose all of their defenses in escort missions.
Arcana makes a good point. The escort thing will have to be addressed for Devices Blasters. This issue also neatly encapsulates why I hope that Drain Psyche will be retooled in I-24. |
Yes, it is an issue, but I don't see device blasters suddenly making it a top priority. Happy to be wrong I suppose, but I don't really see it is a big issue, most of the time I get the escort to the door before I even run into an ambush anyway (if I'm solo). If you are on a team, let someone else lead the sucker out.
My point was that the OP was being rather childish about the whole thing.
As StratoNexus said, if the OP had simply said "Now that this power will have the sustain effects added to it, can we get a No Fade option for it?" I wouldn't have had an issue with it, and in fact would have supported her position.
But that's not what she said.
I'm choosing to ignore the faults in her presentation and supporting the No Fade option despite them, because I think the benefits of the change related to character concept outweigh that which would be gained from me not supporting it due to the nature of her post.