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The OP asserts that Cloaking Device provides no benefit in combat because its defense buff and stealth buff suppress completely when in combat. The OP is in error. If you totally agree with the OP, you are also equally in error.
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Originally Posted by MustachedHero
I totally agree with the OP. On my current build I immediately specced out of cloak for this very reason.
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New players to the game may not be aware of that especially considering to affect enemies with powers you have to have them selected by reticle. I'm not saying it's not dumb to try and pick out a single PC in a mob of NPCs and that learning to use the team interface is important, but there could be a slight learning curve issue there. I don't really mind the stealth affect and as most pointed out would love if all my characters who want stealth had access to Cloaking Device. I'm not a huge fan of Super Speed on some maps and because sometimes lag spikes cause me to careen off of platforms and I pretty much can't run Stealth without using Sprint to counterbalance the -Speed in it. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Since, after all, you can target teammates by clicking on their name in the team window, and that's how all the best buffers/healers do it anyway.
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The costuming issue is I suppose valid, but it's not like sitting there admiring your costume is something you do when you're engaging enemies...or at I should say I don't. And the hot second you turn off CD :BLAM: Cotume restored!
Did it occur to anyone that the OP may be, I don't know, a 12-year-old girl?
I have a 12-year-old niece, and these sound like exactly the kinds of arguments her and I have. You *can't* argue facts and logic to most 12-year-old girls. They're right, you're wrong, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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This kind of narrow-minded fixation is not exclusive to twelve-year-olds of either gender.
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STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Costume narcissism may be the key selling feature of CoH. I've played lots of other games since I first tried CoH in beta, and I keep coming back to CoH because, well, I like the costume creation. I leave for long periods because I get tired of the gameplay, but I come back for the costumes, and because when I'm not tired of the gameplay, I enjoy it.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Hey, when playing a blaster I want to be sure the defenders can see me too!
 Plus, this is CoH. Costume narcissism is very important, at least it is to me and lots of other people. |
I would have left the game forever after the global defense nerf (which in retrospect I agree was needed, but it annoyed me at the time and drove most of my real life friends who played away) if the costume creator weren't so amazing.
In other words, I would wholly support a "no fade" power option on Cloaking Device. Also, I can see it being hugely obnoxious in escort missions, since you need sustain to survive, and you need to not be stealthed to do the escort.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
To suggest that an appearance preference for one's super hero character is based on narcissism is ridiculous and dismissive. The look of comic book characters is very much a part of the identity of them. This naturally extends into a game based on playing such a character. If looks weren't important to many players they wouldn't have been so excited with the current power customization options and the upcoming ones.
Personally, I'm quite pleased with the fade of cloaking device and am happy it is being carried over into the new power. I based my Sonic/Devices around being virtually invisible graphically. However, I can see how many do not want to fade, and how such may well interfere with their desired look for their character or the concept it is based on.
Since the cost of avoiding the fade will now be much larger with the change many players will have to compromise their look or concept to take advantage of the new power. I see no reason why this should be so when many similar stealth powers in the game already offer a no fade option. To allow for variety in look and character concept a no fade option should exist for the new power.
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I don't believe those opposed to the fade are so because they want to admire their costumes in combat. I believe they are opposed to the fade because it violates their character concept to fade in combat.
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Originally Posted by Sir Hextor
The costuming issue is I suppose valid, but it's not like sitting there admiring your costume is something you do when you're engaging enemies...or at I should say I don't. And the hot second you turn off CD :BLAM: Cotume restored!
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That is true, I will grant that much. |
Originally Posted by Sir Hextor
New players to the game may not be aware of that especially considering to affect enemies with powers you have to have them selected by reticle.
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However, according to her registration date, the OP is NOT new to the game.
It is also improbable that she is a 12 year old girl, as her registration date would then have her playing at the age of 5.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Dismissive? Certainly. Ridiculous? No more so than getting one's panties in a twist about how CD's visual fade affects character appearance in combat. It's a "Cloaking Device". It makes you "partially invisible". How else would you have it look, by default? Have the character cover their face with their hands while holding up a sign declaring "You can't see me"?|
Originally Posted by -Urchin-
To suggest that an appearance preference for one's super hero character is based on narcissism is ridiculous and dismissive.
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I have no objection to the idea of a no-effect QoL change for the power, but crying endlessly that it's a "debuff" or "ruins a toon's look" is, in fact, ridiculous. And yes, I do in fact dismiss that stance as such.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Then. Don't. Take. The. Power. It goes against the character concept. Done.
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Originally Posted by -Urchin-
I don't believe those opposed to the fade are so because they want to admire their costumes in combat. I believe they are opposed to the fade because it violates their character concept to fade in combat.
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Pretty much this. |
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Then. Don't. Take. The. Power. It goes against the character concept. Done.
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The part that baffles me about this entire thread is that if the OP skipped Field Operative and the snipe in her original build, then the i24 changes will have absolutely zero effect on her character. In other words, her character will remain completely unchanged.
So, even though her character will remain EXACTLY AS IT IS THIS VERY SECOND.....these changes somehow RUINED her character?!?
Exactly how does a change that has no effect on something have the effect of ruining the something it didn't affect?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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One day I ate a cookie. It was good. Then the wife pulled out brownies, but I was full and shouldn't eat two deserts. The cookie was bad.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Exactly how does a change that has no effect on something have the effect of ruining the something it didn't affect?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
One day I ate a cookie.
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| It was good. |
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| Then the wife pulled out brownies |
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| but I was full and shouldn't eat two deserts. |
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| The cookie was bad. |
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OMG! LMAO!!! *Gives a HUGE thumbs up to Arcana*|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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That is classic!
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Something funny. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
5000 words
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
CD is worth it just for the potential of another LotG slot, let alone the other benefits.
I'd be nice if the devs added a no fade power customization option for those that want to remain visible. Wouldn't be too bothered if that never happened though.
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It is quite obvious why the OP would now feel obliged to take the new power when she didn't want the old one. There is nothing baffling about it. Why would anyone wish to have a character that is EXACTLY AS IT IS THIS VERY SECOND when they can instead have the sustain effects that will be added.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Pretty much this.
The part that baffles me about this entire thread is that if the OP skipped Field Operative and the snipe in her original build, then the i24 changes will have absolutely zero effect on her character. In other words, her character will remain completely unchanged. So, even though her character will remain EXACTLY AS IT IS THIS VERY SECOND.....these changes somehow RUINED her character?!? Exactly how does a change that has no effect on something have the effect of ruining the something it didn't affect? |
She didn't skip Field Operative. She skipped Cloaking Device.They aren't the same thing. What will diminish her character will be the potential she wouldn't have if she kept her powers as is when the old power is switched to the new one. It is quite obvious it would be lower than a similar character that opted to take Field Operative if her build remained unchanged.
As such, she will be affected, as will anyone else that used to avoid the old power, because it is unlikely any will turn down the sustain. She simply doesn't want the aesthetic that comes along with Field Operative, a power not so easily avoided as Cloaking Device without the loss of much potential.
In any case, what about a power named... Field Operative... suggests by virtue of it's name that it requires a fade effect. It inherently made sense to be required in a power called Cloaking Device. It doesn't with the name of the new power.
What is the argument against a No Fade option really... other than "tough, that's the way it is, suck it up, etc."... What would it hurt to have a No Fade option for a power that doesn't even imply invisibility in it's name for those that dislike the look of it? In what way would such a change negatively affect the game such that it should be avoided?
The argument for a No Fade option is easy enough. It allows more players to achieve their character concept, and precedent for No Fade options being added that facilitate character concept has been established.
What is the reasoned argument against providing a No Fade option?
So how come no one is complaining about all the other nuisances in the other sustain powers?
Fire Manipulation's blazing aura means I'm going all around damaging and agroing everyone around me.
Ice Manipulation Chilling Embrace is becoming a 30 ft radius slow field. What if I don't want to slow stuff or want them to get closer?
Energy Manipulation has me clicking Energize over and over again if I want the bonus!
Electric's Sustain is in Lighting Clap!
EDIT: not that any of this bothers me, but I can see it ruining plenty of people's internet life.
Even though I don't agree with the poster, I sort of get where s/he is coming from.
For example, Ice Control is one of my favorite sets for reasons that are too long to explain here without going into a wild tangent. The short of it is: "It's virtually unique among playstyles in MMOs." But I also recognize the set needs some buffs to compete within the context of this game.
If those buffs turn out to preserve the nature of the set, that will be great. But if they, say, turn the slowing cone, Shiver, into a hard mezz in the manner of Seeds of Confusion I will be disappointed. Not because I got buffed, but because the playstyle will move away from what drew me to the set in the first place.
I'm not sure that is the case here or this is the best way to go about rallying against it, but I can at least sort of understand the POV. It's related to the reason a lot of Blasters didn't want mezz protection put in Build Up or Aim.
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There isn't one, as far as I know, and I do not believe anyone has argued against adding the no fade option. If the OP had simply said, "Now that this power is going to be more desirable, I would really like the no fade option added," I believe they would have garnered nothing but agreement, support, and positive feedback.
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Originally Posted by -Urchin-
What is the reasoned argument against providing a No Fade option?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Completely this. I don't recall reading a single post that boiled down to "No Fade option = bad". Quite the opposite, in fact.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
There isn't one, as far as I know, and I do not believe anyone has argued against adding the no fade option. If the OP had simply said, "Now that this power is going to be more desirable, I would really like the no fade option added," I believe they would have garnered nothing but agreement, support, and positive feedback.
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The problem with the OP is that they were arguing the fact that the I-24 blaster sustain effects were being placed into CD (soon to be FO), forcing her to take and actually USE a power (which she currently has the power but simply uses it for a LotG +rech mule) that they concider to be a completely worthless power that provides absolutely no benefit to her what-so-ever in combat. She did at least admit that it does have some built-in defense, but then goes on to state that said defense suppresses to basically ZERO while in combat. In short...it is a NON-COMBAT POWER.
To quote:
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| This is a duplication of a POOL power, what is it doing in my BLASTER SECONDARY? The defense in Cloaking device is not real. Again, out of combat! Defense is worthless when nothing is shooting at you. It is currently a power that makes you transparent. This is a PLAYER effect, not an IN-GAME combat affecting ability. |
Again, to quote:
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| Now why would I even come here and tell you this because as BOYS, you think being transparent like a assassin or something inherently is 'cool'.. and dislike me for bringing this up... |
From the FIRST POST: "
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| I take it only as a set mule for LoTGs Recharge bonus (x5!)... Using this power turns your character (and outfit) Transparent and hard to see. This is a neat effect, the first 20 or so times you see it, but then, it begins to pale.. (one reason I suspect stalkers are not more popular.) |
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Something funny. |
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I never said there shouldn't be one. Seriously, look through my posts in this thread, you will not find me arguing against a No Fade option anywhere in it. |
Originally Posted by -Urchin-
What is the reasoned argument against providing a No Fade option?
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My point was that the OP was being rather childish about the whole thing.
As StratoNexus said, if the OP had simply said "Now that this power will have the sustain effects added to it, can we get a No Fade option for it?" I wouldn't have had an issue with it, and in fact would have supported her position.
But that's not what she said.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Is this thread a joke ? , people are complaining about cool transparency .
Does cloacking device turn you into a blurry big black spot of ink ?
No it turns you into a transparent looking toon , if zoomed in you can still see the details .
And people complain about that ?
I give up some people should have played CoH original .
Where Cloak of Darkness , yes that was ruining your outfit .
By turning you into a big black spot of ink .
And getting it changed had half the forum people flaming me .
But cloaking device , heck no it is awesome , even for roleplay .
You take it turn it on in combat , turn it off after combat .
Done deal , but to cry you must take that power ?
That gives you as much defense even supressed as combat jumping , gives you almost as much stealth as invisible , and still able to act .
Is too worthless ? ... if it wasn't for cloaking device , you couldn't even place your time bomb up close .
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You must be a BOY.
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Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Is this thread a joke ? , people are complaining about cool transparency .
Does cloacking device turn you into a blurry big black spot of ink ? No it turns you into a transparent looking toon , if zoomed in you can still see the details . And people complain about that ? I give up some people should have played CoH original . Where Cloak of Darkness , yes that was ruining your outfit . By turning you into a big black spot of ink . And getting it changed had half the forum people flaming me . But cloaking device , heck no it is awesome , even for roleplay . You take it turn it on in combat , turn it off after combat . Done deal , but to cry you must take that power ? That gives you as much defense even supressed as combat jumping , gives you almost as much stealth as invisible , and still able to act . Is too worthless ? ... if it wasn't for cloaking device , you couldn't even place your time bomb up close . |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Since, after all, you can target teammates by clicking on their name in the team window, and that's how all the best buffers/healers do it anyway.
If you're trying to click on someone manually to target them, I could see it being an issue. But honestly, in the chaos of combat that is going to be difficult whether you can see them or not.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.