what content should be the template for the future?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Or a mix of which content?

I.E. Sutter, Yin, SSA1, Magi, Faultline arcs, DfB?

I have to go with the SSA1 as a template for future content.
1. a series of short arcs, so the time for each bit is reasonable
2. can be soloed or in teams - but counts as a tf for keeping teams together
3. custom maps and content so they feel special
4. rewards built into the arcs rather than tied to some crazy accolade

I don't like the arcs being divided so much by levels - playing arc1 at 20 and then having to gain 20 levels to finish is lame

I could use shorter dialogs in some sections

and I'm not commenting on the actual story - just the format of the content.


 

Posted

The template for future content should be what it has always been: originality.

We need a healthy mix of solo/team/incarnate content.


 

Posted

dark astoria. Strong writing, great sense of tone, and memorable enemies. and a strong ending that makes you feel like your characters are doing something amazing. plus bonus badges for going the hard way.

also, i want more tips. they are a good way of introducing smaller story elements in more of a traditional comic sense, quick one off events that introduce non world threateing events that emphasize what it is to be a hero or villain. I wouldn't mind seeing "chain" tips, tips that lead to short, self contained arcs that can tell a bit more of a story and maybe flesh out the stories of existing but underutilized enemy groups like the sky raiders and vahz and the like. no crazy avs, no need for lots of time prohibitive unique maps, just some quick MA type arcs made by the devs to flesh out the world.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
The template for future content should be what it has always been: originality.

We need a healthy mix of solo/team/incarnate content.
and what is a healthy mix?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
and what is a healthy mix?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post




As for an actual answer, I personally feel the mix of what we have now (more efficient TFs like Penny Yin and revamped Posi, the SSAs being soloable or team, and well-developed meaningful arcs like Dark Astoria) is a proper mix.

Basically anything but the "run around to 10 different zones for no real reason" system from the old days. Even more arcs like the new 20ish ones introduced recently would be good, especially in the 30-40 range. Short(ish), great writing and a meaningful experience.


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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm View Post
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

 

Posted

More arcs need to follow the lead of Dean MacArthur/Leonard Silman and Vincent Ross. Giving the player villain the spotlight of a story arc is the best thing that can be done to quell the "bad villain writing" complainers (such as myself). More spotlight, less lackey. Same with future trials and TFs; the Greater Good plot is old. Add some villain/rogue specific stuff and you'll make a lot of people happy. To top it off, always add a solo path. Solo paths should never come "later." They should come alongside the 'fast track.'


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
More arcs need to follow the lead of Dean MacArthur/Leonard Silman and Vincent Ross. Giving the player villain the spotlight of a story arc is the best thing that can be done to quell the "bad villain writing" complainers (such as myself). More spotlight, less lackey. Same with future trials and TFs; the Greater Good plot is old. Add some villain/rogue specific stuff and you'll make a lot of people happy. To top it off, always add a solo path. Solo paths should never come "later." They should come alongside the 'fast track.'
Agreed. ALL of my Agreed. D-Mac and that lot are some of the best writing, IMO, hands down. The Hero side arcs of the same batch are also pretty good.

What should be avoided? Pancake-loving Pancake Dr Pancake Graves and his Pancake arc of Pancake. Even I, the ragey mc-rage bot of ultimate raging, do not have enough rage and hatred for that arc and its....I'd hesitate to call it writing, given the way it makes your character look like an utter, brain-dead, feckless half-wit. It's bad. It's beyond bad. Kill it with fire.


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Posted

Just update the MA and I will make my own new content tyvm.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Yeah I'd say DA is a pretty perfect template for future content. It's got just about everything I like in my story arcs.

It's written with less hero bias than most of the co-op content to date, it offers a variety of options from villainous choices to optional objectives for added flavor/mechanics, it's very well written and sufficiently epic, and there's enough different things to do among the missions and the arcs it doesn't feel like I'm just doing the same thing over and over. There are some small caveats of course, like I'm not thrilled half of the contacts are strictly Cellphone only, but it's pretty minor (and largely aesthetic).

For trials, I think MoM and Magisterium are pretty good templates for iTrials. MoM is good because it has complex mechanics but it has several break points to cool down, prep, and let leaders explain stuff. Magisterium is pretty much a straight up beat down, which has it's own kind of merits.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
It's written with less hero bias than most of the co-op content to date
While this is mostly, true, Heather Townshend's arc for villains has a very frustrating start:

Initial contact: $Villain? What are you doing here?

Responses:
-I'll be playing the role of hero today.
-Relax, I'm here to help and be good.

I immediately stopped reading after that.


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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
While this is mostly, true, Heather Townshend's arc for villains has a very frustrating start:

Initial contact: $Villain? What are you doing here?

Responses:
-I'll be playing the role of hero today.
-Relax, I'm here to help and be good.

I immediately stopped reading after that.
LOL, ouch. Yeah I haven't gotten a villain to 50 yet, just from playing through on my heroes it seemed a lot less obviously.. well, -that-.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Yeah, because reduced rewards for well-written content is a trade-off I want to make.

Oh wait.
In your race to be witty you TOTALLY ignored the "I" part in my statement. No worries, what else is to be expected on the web...


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Design-wise, stuff like Dark Astoria, the ITF and the level 1-20 Preatorian arcs have a good mix of text and action, fancy and simple mechanics, decent arc and mission length, and they avoid a lot of stuff that just annoys players (except for the constant ambushes in Praetoria.)

Storywise, I'm going to pretend every bit of text just says "click here to fight mobs" until I see evidence of a total turn-around in the development team's philosophy toward storytelling and world-building.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
In your race to be witty you TOTALLY ignored the "I" part in my statement. No worries, what else is to be expected on the web...
You have to understand that what you posted is the blanket "write your own arcs if you hate the writing so much" argument so many people fire at me when I talk about the current writing neglecting villains. If I seemed like I was being acerbic in my reply, it's because I was. If you're comfortable with writing your own AE stuff for your own progress, more power to you.


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This is going to be good.


 

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Barring the usual 'for the greater good' nonsense and the lack of villainy (that irks me no end too), I've always maintained that any future zones should follow the Rikti War Zone format. In that zone alone, you have:

1) Decent non-facepalming story arcs (great for soloists and teams alike),
2) A fun, fast Task Force (great for teams) and
3) The Mother Ship Raid (for leagues).

Also, this zone also introduced Vanguard Merits. Although more or less redundant now, they matched all three paths above in terms of speed so we had the slow, fast and extremely fast methods of obtaining them. I'd say in terms of balance, it's about the most complete package the Devs have ever delivered in a zone. Now if they would follow this way of thinking for all things Incarnate, I wouldn't be so put off the whole system.

As for villains, agreed, we need more stories about being the bad guy and not some hired goon. D-Mac and Leonard again set the standard here. I want to see precisely no more co-op content introduced with some kind of 'heroes and villains must team up to defeat... blah blah blah' kind of baloney. Sick of it to my back teeth by now.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
...I've always maintained that any future zones should follow the Rikti War Zone format. In that zone alone, you have:

1) Decent non-facepalming story arcs (great for soloists and teams alike),
2) A fun, fast Task Force (great for teams) and
3) The Mother Ship Raid (for leagues).
Completely agree. I'd say the Faultline arcs are along these same lines as well, especially if you consider the updated Positron Part 2 TF the "fun, fast task force" for Faultline (and I do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
As for villains, agreed, we need more stories about being the bad guy and not some hired goon. D-Mac and Leonard again set the standard here. I want to see precisely no more co-op content introduced with some kind of 'heroes and villains must team up to defeat... blah blah blah' kind of baloney. Sick of it to my back teeth by now.
On the other hand, I'd love to see some co-op content where the heroes have to compromise to achieve their goals, while the villians can just be villianous.

The end of the Dark Astoria arcs come close to this.


Global name: @k26dp

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
While this is mostly, true, Heather Townshend's arc for villains has a very frustrating start:

Initial contact: $Villain? What are you doing here?

Responses:
-I'll be playing the role of hero today.
-Relax, I'm here to help and be good.

I immediately stopped reading after that.
You should continue reading. It's set up pretty clearly that you're working an angle all the way through the Dark Astoria arcs.


Global name: @k26dp

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post


This is going to be good.

Is "this is going to be good" because the drink(ing) is good or because you like watching train wrecks? (or both?)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
Barring the usual 'for the greater good' nonsense and the lack of villainy (that irks me no end too), I've always maintained that any future zones should follow the Rikti War Zone format. In that zone alone, you have:

1) Decent non-facepalming story arcs (great for soloists and teams alike),
2) A fun, fast Task Force (great for teams) and
3) The Mother Ship Raid (for leagues).

Also, this zone also introduced Vanguard Merits. Although more or less redundant now, they matched all three paths above in terms of speed so we had the slow, fast and extremely fast methods of obtaining them. I'd say in terms of balance, it's about the most complete package the Devs have ever delivered in a zone. Now if they would follow this way of thinking for all things Incarnate, I wouldn't be so put off the whole system.

As for villains, agreed, we need more stories about being the bad guy and not some hired goon. D-Mac and Leonard again set the standard here. I want to see precisely no more co-op content introduced with some kind of 'heroes and villains must team up to defeat... blah blah blah' kind of baloney. Sick of it to my back teeth by now.


I agree about the RWZ being pretty good on a whole.

I find it interesting though that "Villains" are so demanding about content only for them. I just don't see it happening (beyond story arcs like Leonard/etc...) just like there isn't any new content just for heroes (again, beyond story arcs).


I just don't think there is enough population villain-side to be on the plus side of ROI for the devs to do so....could be wrong.


Only thing that I'd be all for is a new SF for the villains in a lvl range or two that they are missing (or just need to have a "duplicate of" so that new WSTs can be done for both heroes and villains).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RosaQuartz View Post
You should continue reading. It's set up pretty clearly that you're working an angle all the way through the Dark Astoria arcs.
I probably should, then; I played through Heather's whole arc and it was identical to the hero arcs for me. I stopped reading because I assumed that villains had received another co-op carbon copy again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
I find it interesting though that "Villains" are so demanding about content only for them. I just don't see it happening (beyond story arcs like Leonard/etc...) just like there isn't any new content just for heroes (again, beyond story arcs).


I just don't think there is enough population villain-side to be on the plus side of ROI for the devs to do so....could be wrong.
It's unfortunate that yet another person is in the "forget the minority" boat. We're still playing. There are some of us who are primarily redsiders. The answer to the question of "more content for villains" should NOT be "marginalize that segment of the playerbase."


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
I probably should, then; I played through Heather's whole arc and it was identical to the hero arcs for me. I stopped reading because I assumed that villains had received another co-op carbon copy again.
In fairness, it's mostly copy-pasta until the end.


Global name: @k26dp

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RosaQuartz View Post
In fairness, it's mostly copy-pasta until the end.
Let me guess; you run through all six arcs and at the end you get "Muahahaha you did all that for your own gain!"

By the way, if you're referring to the option on how to handle Tielekku in the final mission, I don't consider that a 'villainous content' inclusion since heroes get the same choice.


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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Let me guess; you run through all six arcs and at the end you get "Muahahaha you did all that for your own gain!"

By the way, if you're referring to the option on how to handle Tielekku in the final mission, I don't consider that a 'villainous content' inclusion since heroes get the same choice.
It is set up in the beginning before you start Heather Townsend your goal when you ply the CoT Mage for info.

But yes, I was referring to the Tielekku option -- I've only run it all the way through with one hero so far, and I don't recall getting that option. So my bad if heroes can do that as well.


Global name: @k26dp