How would you "fix" Kheldians?
When I see things like lack of endurance and a request to have even more health I have to wonder about builds. Years ago when the Kheld forum was more active people would complain, others would ask them to show their builds and it soon became clear what the issues were, we would help them fix it up and this was before the the better Kheld changes.
If we could do it then I know we can do it now since Khelds in fact are WAY better than they use to be. |
I have no doubt that there's something missing in my build, and as I've said before, my lack of experience, and the pure variety of Kheld builds out there can make any 'fix' for Khleds tricky. There's no definite answer or solution, and the fact that my build is largely thematic makes for a rather skewed idea as to what needs 'fixing'.
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I mean I am not the build guy, but there are PLENTY here.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Why not just post your build and ask for help then? I mean that seems like the logical solution vs a revamp of an entire AT you are not totally familiar with.
I mean I am not the build guy, but there are PLENTY here. |
I was just saying what I think could be done to adjust Khelds, Peacebringers specifically, if there was a need to adjust them.
See: virtually every patch cycle in World of Warcraft.
Don't fear change. |
I would. I'd be employed by Blizzard. Word is they're pretty good at their jobs.
EDIT: If you folks are that terrified of change, we're done here. There's nothing to discuss if your entrenched position is, "Change that makes me play my toon differently is bad". |
We players are not afraid of change. We argue for change. We suggest changes, playtest changes, and work changes into our playstyles.
We also like consistency. We don't (seriously) suggest that all ATs should be crammed together into one master AT that we call 'Tankmages'. We like our characters to continue to be like our characters, for the most part.
Finally, while we are the Players and thus we get to 'vote with our wallets' about what we like about the game, we are Not actually in control of it. We cannot make the Devs change anything. We can't even keep NCSoft from breaking things that work just fine.
So, your idea is interesting, but you're arguing with the wrong people about change. And the change you're arguing about is doomed - they are NOT going to re-write a whole AT on a whim. Not even if it were 'easy' to do it, which I doubt.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Remove the Damage Buff of Nova Form and simply increase the Base Damage of the Nova Form attack powers to compensate for the change. Minimum stays the same, maximum gets "increased" because of how enhancements and the damage cap inter-react.
S imple
E asy
E ffective
![](http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7840/groove1.gif)
Remove the Damage Buff of Nova Form and simply increase the Base Damage of the Nova Form attack powers to compensate for the change. Minimum stays the same, maximum gets "increased" because of how enhancements and the damage cap inter-react.
S imple E asy E ffective |
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All I want for christmas is Toggle Suppression.
And all those attacks start recharging slower, and you have even more gaps in the attack chain, and given how the recharge formula works your actual DPS over time will drop slightly.
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But there again, the endurance usage would be increased, wouldn't it? But then you can slot endmod enhancements into nova form, and every IO set you could slot into the attacks would come with end reduction. OR you could slot tohit into nova and replace that accuracy in each attack with an end reducer. OR you could slot a performance shifter proc.
Point is you've got slotting options in nova to compensate for a great many things. Would it fully compensate? No. No solution is going to be perfect. But it beats what we have now.
Besides: since the enhancement slotting on powers with 40% more base damage would be more effective than the current state of enhancing nova attacks as they are and THEN adding a 40% damage buff, it would actually be a direct damage buff to those attacks. Why shouldn't we pay for it? Small price if you ask me.
EDIT - and even if nothing at all is done to compensate for the consequences of baking the damage buff directly into the attacks, Nova remains a viable option for form-shifters thanks to instant shifting filling in the attack chain gaps, and can be a better asset for those willing to invest the slots to bring recharge/end use down.
EDIT EDIT - and for the record to the OP - Baking the nova damage boost into the base damage of the attacks is one of only two things I think Kheldians really need. The other is psionic resistance in white dwarf.
THE TRIPLE EDIT OF AN ADDLED MIND - for anyone who doesn't know, damage boosts that come from enhancements, build up powers and the nova form's inherent boost only affect the BASE damage of a power. Currently, for example, Bright Nova Blast does 66.73 points of damage. Enhanced it would do 95% more, right? Right. NOW add a 40% damage boost and you'll get.... 40% of 66.73 added. The total damage output would - under the current conditions - result in 132.8 points of damage. Bake that 40% nova boost into the power's base damage and you've got a damage output of 182.17 points of damage. Would that be worth a gap or two in your attack chain? Hell it's probably the reason why Arbiter Hawk will never, ever make the change.
THE "YOU KNOW WHAT? I SHOULD JUST DELETE THIS POST AND REWRITE IT AFTER A CUP OF COFFEE!" FOURTH EDIT: It wouldn't have to be a straight 40% damage boost baked in to the base damage. Since it would result in such a big direct damage buff, then a lesser amount could be more balanced. And no, I don't know why I keep using the words "Baked in." Freudian slip of a half-baked brain, I suppose. Back to my coffee.
EDITED A FIFTH TIME TO MAKE THE EDITS MAKE SENSE: Coffee ftw.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Assuming we're trying to maintain the basic theme of Kheldians, are any further buffs justified? I don't mean to presuppose an answer from that. It really seems like at this point that Kheldians are what they are. They can be made to be decent off-tank/damage/mild support. There is far too much disagreement about what else to do (except maybe toggle suppression) it seems to me.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
When I want to increase my damage output, I usually want More Powers!
Specifically in Nova and in White Dwarf, I'd like to see an additional single-target attack. Yes, in Nova, I can craft a (slightly sluggish) attack chain by using all four attacks. However, there are times when one Does Not Want to use AoE. That's when the classic trio of fast, medium, and big attacks works well. I find the same problem with White Dwarf - I'm missing an attack.
Be Well!
Fireheart
<Edit> And Toggle Suppression!
Assuming we're trying to maintain the basic theme of Kheldians, are any further buffs justified? I don't mean to presuppose an answer from that. It really seems like at this point that Kheldians are what they are. They can be made to be decent off-tank/damage/mild support. There is far too much disagreement about what else to do (except maybe toggle suppression) it seems to me.
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But I agree. At this point they probably are what they are.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
When I want to increase my damage output, I usually want More Powers!
Specifically in Nova and in White Dwarf, I'd like to see an additional single-target attack. Yes, in Nova, I can craft a (slightly sluggish) attack chain by using all four attacks. However, there are times when one Does Not Want to use AoE. That's when the classic trio of fast, medium, and big attacks works well. I find the same problem with White Dwarf - I'm missing an attack. Be Well! Fireheart |
If you bind a "powexec_name combat flight" with your human form bind, you won't even drop out of the air.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Assuming we're trying to maintain the basic theme of Kheldians, are any further buffs justified? I don't mean to presuppose an answer from that. It really seems like at this point that Kheldians are what they are. They can be made to be decent off-tank/damage/mild support. There is far too much disagreement about what else to do (except maybe toggle suppression) it seems to me.
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So drop to human, fire off your single target blasts and jump back to nova. (Nearly) instant form shifting made that possible.
If you bind a "powexec_name combat flight" with your human form bind, you won't even drop out of the air. |
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
My main Kheldian is a human-form PB (strictly for concept reasons) and he Does have a single-target chain of fast-medium-fast-big-repeat. This is why I'm so aware of Nova's lack of same. My main 'Main' is an Energy Melee Tanker - which Also has a similar chain... and Dwarf does not.
Depends on what you mean by buffs. I don't think their overall performance is unreasonably low. I mostly think there are mechanical issues that could be solved with things that could improve their performance, and I don't think their performance is unreasonably high to eliminate those things from consideration. In particular, I think the presumptive diversity Kheldians have with form shifting is significantly hampered by the way slotting works. The cost for diversity is too high relative to, say, how costs are allocated to things with mode shifting, such as Bio armor. If Bio Armor is the state of the art in dev thinking when it comes to the opportunity cost of mode shifting, then I think a quantitative case can be made the costs intrinsic to Kheldians is too high on principle.
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Be Well!
Fireheart
Depends on what you mean by buffs. I don't think their overall performance is unreasonably low. I mostly think there are mechanical issues that could be solved with things that could improve their performance, and I don't think their performance is unreasonably high to eliminate those things from consideration. In particular, I think the presumptive diversity Kheldians have with form shifting is significantly hampered by the way slotting works. The cost for diversity is too high relative to, say, how costs are allocated to things with mode shifting, such as Bio armor. If Bio Armor is the state of the art in dev thinking when it comes to the opportunity cost of mode shifting, then I think a quantitative case can be made the costs intrinsic to Kheldians is too high on principle.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I agree, but that seems to suggest that the forms should simply be buffs and all powers should be usable in the forms. So instead of getting four blasts only usable in Nova, the human form blasts would have different effects based on if you're in Nova or Dwarf form. But I can see there being an uproar if that was suggested by the devs.
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I agree, but that seems to suggest that the forms should simply be buffs and all powers should be usable in the forms. So instead of getting four blasts only usable in Nova, the human form blasts would have different effects based on if you're in Nova or Dwarf form. But I can see there being an uproar if that was suggested by the devs.
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Arcana's suggestion of form specific slots is a good one (or possibly a Kheld specific power that allows you to trade a power pick for more slots).
It depends on who you ask. Speaking for myself if Khelds were changed so that the forms modified existing powers rather than granting new ones I'd be ecstatic (including your resistance toggles simply increasing or deceasing in effectiveness with forms rather than detoggling). Practically speaking though I realize that a lot of other players would dislike it.
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'Dislike' might be too mild a term.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Be Well!
Fireheart
Or they could figure out how to grant enhancement slots that only work in forms powers so that slotting one form doesn't create a huge opportunity cost by depleting slots for other forms, and conversely they don't just give human-only kheldians a blizzard of slots.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I agree, but that seems to suggest that the forms should simply be buffs and all powers should be usable in the forms. So instead of getting four blasts only usable in Nova, the human form blasts would have different effects based on if you're in Nova or Dwarf form. But I can see there being an uproar if that was suggested by the devs.
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I for one would not be against them opening all the ranged attacks to Nova Form, and all the Melee to Dwarf, or some portion of each. Say, Gleaming Bolt, and Dawn Strike for Nova. Radiant Strike, and Photon Seekers to the Dwarf.
While a "Swap Ammo" or "Bio Armor Form" style mechanic would be far superior to a Kheldian implementation, I doubt that the designing/code that would be required is something the Devs would readily put onto their "to-do" list. Given their comments on the ideas of restructuring the Power Pools for "customization", they made it fairly clear that "doing X for everything is lol-no." Human-Form abilities alone is 25 powers that they'd have to look at and recode to "work" while Nova or Dwarf is "toggled". This sounds simple, but given the age of their creation in the game, I doubt it would turn out to be so.
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
Just like giving them an extra slot in the shifted forms. Sounds easy.
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Now that I've attentively read the rest of your post I see that you did not in fact derp your way through it (completely.) Point still stands since some people evidently still need to follow my instructions though.
Or they could figure out how to grant enhancement slots that only work in forms powers so that slotting one form doesn't create a huge opportunity cost by depleting slots for other forms, and conversely they don't just give human-only kheldians a blizzard of slots.
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When I see things like lack of endurance and a request to have even more health I have to wonder about builds. Years ago when the Kheld forum was more active people would complain, others would ask them to show their builds and it soon became clear what the issues were, we would help them fix it up and this was before the the better Kheld changes.
If we could do it then I know we can do it now since Khelds in fact are WAY better than they use to be.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.