How would you "fix" Kheldians?

I have no doubt that there's something missing in my build, and as I've said before, my lack of experience, and the pure variety of Kheld builds out there can make any 'fix' for Khleds tricky. There's no definite answer or solution, and the fact that my build is largely thematic makes for a rather skewed idea as to what needs 'fixing'.

Why not just post your build and ask for help then? I mean that seems like the logical solution vs a revamp of an entire AT you are not totally familiar with.

I mean I am not the build guy, but there are PLENTY here.

I agree, that is logical, but I was merely providing my thoughts on the matter, and will more than likely seek help in the future.

I was just saying what I think could be done to adjust Khelds, Peacebringers specifically, if there was a need to adjust them.

Well there's your problem! You got mixed-up, thinking that City was like WoW. Or that people who play City would rather be playing WoW. Or that WoW was better than City.

We players are not afraid of change. We argue for change. We suggest changes, playtest changes, and work changes into our playstyles.

We also like consistency. We don't (seriously) suggest that all ATs should be crammed together into one master AT that we call 'Tankmages'. We like our characters to continue to be like our characters, for the most part.

Finally, while we are the Players and thus we get to 'vote with our wallets' about what we like about the game, we are Not actually in control of it. We cannot make the Devs change anything. We can't even keep NCSoft from breaking things that work just fine.

So, your idea is interesting, but you're arguing with the wrong people about change. And the change you're arguing about is doomed - they are NOT going to re-write a whole AT on a whim. Not even if it were 'easy' to do it, which I doubt.

Be Well!
Fireheart

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

And all those attacks start recharging slower, and you have even more gaps in the attack chain, and given how the recharge formula works your actual DPS over time will drop slightly.

If baking in more damage to nova form's attacks will make them recharge longer (Although quite frankly I can't see that as THAT big of a deal with instant form shifting), then give nova form a momentum-like mechanic that affects recharge. So long as one attack hits, the following attacks get a non-stacking recharge buff that is roughly equal to the amount by which the recharge was increased.

But there again, the endurance usage would be increased, wouldn't it? But then you can slot endmod enhancements into nova form, and every IO set you could slot into the attacks would come with end reduction. OR you could slot tohit into nova and replace that accuracy in each attack with an end reducer. OR you could slot a performance shifter proc.

Point is you've got slotting options in nova to compensate for a great many things. Would it fully compensate? No. No solution is going to be perfect. But it beats what we have now.

Besides: since the enhancement slotting on powers with 40% more base damage would be more effective than the current state of enhancing nova attacks as they are and THEN adding a 40% damage buff, it would actually be a direct damage buff to those attacks. Why shouldn't we pay for it? Small price if you ask me.

EDIT - and even if nothing at all is done to compensate for the consequences of baking the damage buff directly into the attacks, Nova remains a viable option for form-shifters thanks to instant shifting filling in the attack chain gaps, and can be a better asset for those willing to invest the slots to bring recharge/end use down.

EDIT EDIT - and for the record to the OP - Baking the nova damage boost into the base damage of the attacks is one of only two things I think Kheldians really need. The other is psionic resistance in white dwarf.

THE TRIPLE EDIT OF AN ADDLED MIND - for anyone who doesn't know, damage boosts that come from enhancements, build up powers and the nova form's inherent boost only affect the BASE damage of a power. Currently, for example, Bright Nova Blast does 66.73 points of damage. Enhanced it would do 95% more, right? Right. NOW add a 40% damage boost and you'll get.... 40% of 66.73 added. The total damage output would - under the current conditions - result in 132.8 points of damage. Bake that 40% nova boost into the power's base damage and you've got a damage output of 182.17 points of damage. Would that be worth a gap or two in your attack chain? Hell it's probably the reason why Arbiter Hawk will never, ever make the change.

THE "YOU KNOW WHAT? I SHOULD JUST DELETE THIS POST AND REWRITE IT AFTER A CUP OF COFFEE!" FOURTH EDIT: It wouldn't have to be a straight 40% damage boost baked in to the base damage. Since it would result in such a big direct damage buff, then a lesser amount could be more balanced. And no, I don't know why I keep using the words "Baked in." Freudian slip of a half-baked brain, I suppose. Back to my coffee.

EDITED A FIFTH TIME TO MAKE THE EDITS MAKE SENSE: Coffee ftw.

As a whole Kheldians are fine. Compared to Warshades Peacebringers are slightly underperforming. Within the archetype the Dwarf and Nova forms are underperforming compared to human form.

But I agree. At this point they probably are what they are.

So drop to human, fire off your single target blasts and jump back to nova. (Nearly) instant form shifting made that possible.

If you bind a "powexec_name combat flight" with your human form bind, you won't even drop out of the air.

Depends on what you mean by buffs. I don't think their overall performance is unreasonably low. I mostly think there are mechanical issues that could be solved with things that could improve their performance, and I don't think their performance is unreasonably high to eliminate those things from consideration. In particular, I think the presumptive diversity Kheldians have with form shifting is significantly hampered by the way slotting works. The cost for diversity is too high relative to, say, how costs are allocated to things with mode shifting, such as Bio armor. If Bio Armor is the state of the art in dev thinking when it comes to the opportunity cost of mode shifting, then I think a quantitative case can be made the costs intrinsic to Kheldians is too high on principle.

Heh, okay, you try that Joe, and see if it's a satisfying solution - I bet it's not.

My main Kheldian is a human-form PB (strictly for concept reasons) and he Does have a single-target chain of fast-medium-fast-big-repeat. This is why I'm so aware of Nova's lack of same. My main 'Main' is an Energy Melee Tanker - which Also has a similar chain... and Dwarf does not.

It's been suggested that Kheldian forms start with Two slots per power, rather than one. Would that be a good way to address the cost of Diversity?

Be Well!
Fireheart

I agree, but that seems to suggest that the forms should simply be buffs and all powers should be usable in the forms. So instead of getting four blasts only usable in Nova, the human form blasts would have different effects based on if you're in Nova or Dwarf form. But I can see there being an uproar if that was suggested by the devs.

Or they could figure out how to grant enhancement slots that only work in forms powers so that slotting one form doesn't create a huge opportunity cost by depleting slots for other forms, and conversely they don't just give human-only kheldians a blizzard of slots.

It depends on who you ask. Speaking for myself if Khelds were changed so that the forms modified existing powers rather than granting new ones I'd be ecstatic (including your resistance toggles simply increasing or deceasing in effectiveness with forms rather than detoggling). Practically speaking though I realize that a lot of other players would dislike it.

Arcana's suggestion of form specific slots is a good one (or possibly a Kheld specific power that allows you to trade a power pick for more slots).

Last time I suggested that the Forms should be over-glorified Leadership toggles, I got thoroughly worked over by a player who had 4-slotted all of his ranged attacks and filled with... something, maybe Thunderstrike? His point was that the forms allowed for multiple stacks of IO Set bonuses and I apparently wanted to 'steal' that from him...

'Dislike' might be too mild a term.

Be Well!
Fireheart

You know better than me, but is that feasible with the troubles the game had giving all characters only 3 extra slots?

Well, that's why I said they could figure out how to do it, not that they could actually do it.

I'm English, we're occasionally fond of understatement.

This has been brought up excessively by players looking at this as a feasible alternative to the two forms. I'd be surprised if the "uproar" was more than 2% of the Kheldian base, so long as they left the existing attacks as an option.

I for one would not be against them opening all the ranged attacks to Nova Form, and all the Melee to Dwarf, or some portion of each. Say, Gleaming Bolt, and Dawn Strike for Nova. Radiant Strike, and Photon Seekers to the Dwarf.

While a "Swap Ammo" or "Bio Armor Form" style mechanic would be far superior to a Kheldian implementation, I doubt that the designing/code that would be required is something the Devs would readily put onto their "to-do" list. Given their comments on the ideas of restructuring the Power Pools for "customization", they made it fairly clear that "doing X for everything is lol-no." Human-Form abilities alone is 25 powers that they'd have to look at and recode to "work" while Nova or Dwarf is "toggled". This sounds simple, but given the age of their creation in the game, I doubt it would turn out to be so.

Just like giving them an extra slot in the shifted forms. Sounds easy.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

Cutting you off here because you seemed to derp your way through the rest of your post. This idea has been heard and embraced, loud and clear, by more than just players. lrn2google.

Now that I've attentively read the rest of your post I see that you did not in fact derp your way through it (completely.) Point still stands since some people evidently still need to follow my instructions though.

This would just lead to OP tri form builds once we get toggle suppression. All you need to slot in Black Dwarf is Mire since human is a better tank (and does more ST damage,) and all you need to slot in Dark Nova is the AOE's. I'm totally against giving forms extra slots ever since I've started thinking about how OP tri form shades would be once we have toggle suppression and after our instant shifts.