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Your definition does not fit that used by the devs to deisgnate something as "epic." No matter what you want to try to say about it. That is the definition used: they are tied to a storyline. Period. |
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
I believe that's where " and " came into play. Conceptual to the idea that "Epic Archetype" was always something to look forward to in end-game play. I remember pre-I9 where getting to 50 was worth the value of opening Kheldians just to find out that you got something that was a little-less than sub-par and the ultimate challenge was trying to "make it work." There's currently nothing "Epic" about them. Their story can be all it wants, but compared to Incarnate content, they're not even on the same level of "zomg." The game has evolved beyond their purpose, heck, they open at level 20 now.
They're a bonus set that we're supposed to be excited to have unlocked and enjoy playing. I'm sure the reason no one's seen toggle suppression for form switching is due to a code-issue somewhere in the transformation setup. It is super old code at this point. But an animation tweak is something that can happen now. The VEATS have several levels of "Epic" to them outside of storylines, I think it's time Khelds could say the same. |
FWIW, I don't find VEATs particularly enjoyable from a playstyle *or* storyline POV. Can't think of the last time I logged into one, and I have several of both types. (For that matter, I don't find the Incarnate content all that "ZOMG" either. Move in a mass of 12-24 of other people and fire... yay. DA is solidly... ok.) Plus, quite honestly, when I unlocked my Khelds in I4, it was *very much* worth it to me. Still is.
Using the devs definition - the one they've stated very plainly since issue 3 - I cay say the VEATs need severe help in their "epic-ness," as the storyline is worse than disappointing.
If you want to make an argument about performance or numbers or whatnot, fine - but don't use "It's not epic" to do so, as you are not arguing the same thing in game terms. It'd be like going to a produce market and arguing that the carrot isn't "strawberry" (color) enough, to which everyone else is going to look at you and go "No ****, sherlock, it's a carrot."
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Reading Comprehension FTL. As I defined already, whether it was intended for the Kheldians to be "Epic" in the nature of their story alone, that is no longer the case. They were once the end-all of the game. One got to 50, got their Squid/Lobster, and rolled a new toon in the attempts to take their shot at Khelds. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
If you want to make an argument about performance or numbers or whatnot, fine - but don't use "It's not epic" to do so, as you are not arguing the same thing in game terms. It'd be like going to a produce market and arguing that the carrot isn't "strawberry" (color) enough, to which everyone else is going to look at you and go "No ****, sherlock, it's a carrot."
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They're not the only Aliens on the block, as it were, now. Rikti have come and done made a mess all over the place, zombies have horded the zones up, and Mot ate a couple people. We're on the verge of I24 and Khelds are so I4. Basically, they're the character the author killed off in chapter eight, and the fans are still complaining in chapter 30 that they should still be around.
Khelds really have a lack of Epic-ness all around. They might as well be open at the starting screen as another AT, because skipping to 20 and getting a "bonus" AT isn't much these days, and with Alignment Changes, as pointed out by others, people feel they generally lack story and integration into things these days.
So yes, I think I am arguing the same thing in relative game terms.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
The devs have commented on this many times over the past 8 years.
EPIC-noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style: Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
That is what the devs themselves have said is what is meant by "EPIC".
Having said that they have increased the power of Khelds over the years in response to players wanting Khelds to have "MORE POWER". People want Khelds to be more powerful but "more EPIC" did not make sense in the past, does not make sense now and will continue to not make sense in the future when in fact what is desired is "MORE POWER".
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Seeing the title of this thread made my brain go to :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTpolOR0kQo
Does that make me a bad person?
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Clue for you, again, since you don't get it.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Reading Comprehension FTL. As I defined already
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Your desired definition means jack-all. You can define them as lemon merengue pie for all I care. The definition that matters is that given by the devs, WHICH IS STILL VALID, whether you like it or not, whether you want to redefine it or not, and how much you whine over it.
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| , whether it was intended for the Kheldians to be "Epic" in the nature of their story alone, that is no longer the case. |
Epic = story based, IE, tied to the story.
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| They were once the end-all of the game. One got to 50, got their Squid/Lobster, and rolled a new toon in the attempts to take their shot at Khelds. |
Your second attempt at redefining is yet another failure.
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| They're not the only Aliens on the block, as it were, now. |
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| Rikti have come and done made a mess all over the place, |
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| zombies have horded the zones up, and Mot ate a couple people. |
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| We're on the verge of I24 and Khelds are so I4. |
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| Basically, they're the character the author killed off in chapter eight, and the fans are still complaining in chapter 30 that they should still be around. |
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| Khelds really have a lack of Epic-ness all around. |
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| They might as well be open at the starting screen as another AT, because skipping to 20 and getting a "bonus" AT isn't much these days, and with Alignment Changes, as pointed out by others, people feel they generally lack story and integration into things these days. |
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| So yes, I think I am arguing the same thing in relative game terms. |
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Arbiter Hawk thinks toggle suppression is a reasonable request, the only problem he had last time I talked to him about it was figuring out how to get the animations to stop playing for toggles and to have the end cost for them not be paid while they're suppressed.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
They're a bonus set that we're supposed to be excited to have unlocked and enjoy playing. I'm sure the reason no one's seen toggle suppression for form switching is due to a code-issue somewhere in the transformation setup. It is super old code at this point. But an animation tweak is something that can happen now. The VEATS have several levels of "Epic" to them outside of storylines, I think it's time Khelds could say the same.
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However, given some leaked info before the last issue's beta that we can't talk about here, we have reason to believe that they have added incentive to work on this tech.
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Which would be awesome (obviously) to see happen, and is as expected a code issue from the depths of Cryptic Past.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Arbiter Hawk thinks toggle suppression is a reasonable request, the only problem he had last time I talked to him about it was figuring out how to get the animations to stop playing for toggles and to have the end cost for them not be paid while they're suppressed.
However, given some leaked info before the last issue's beta that we can't talk about here, we have reason to believe that they have added incentive to work on this tech. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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Feel better now? Glad you got that out of your system. Now, for the third time: My Opinion vs. Your Opinion. Stalemate.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
tl;dr
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I fully understood from these same issues years ago that the developers defined the archetype by the poetic term Epic. But what you're missing is the fact that most of the playerbase does not know that. When they see "EPIC" AT, most don't Immediately Think Illiad. Comparatively, the entire game could be coined as an Epic and more justly deserve it. Yes, the devs claimed it was meant to be that, but it was misleading from the get-go. People see Epic and expect something Awesome. Not an outdated storyline that is outshined by the level of interactive story-telling and talent that is running the game now.
Kheldians [used to] unlock at 50, thus meaning you had to figuratively "get to the end" in order to play one. You'd get two choices (WS/PB) and a storyline to ride through all the way back through to 50. This is no different then beating a standard platformer on Hard Mode, getting your "Bonus Unlock" and replaying the entire game with all your "loot". That basically becomes an argument of semantics and isn't really worth it.
This has nothing to do with "omg moar power", it has to do with the fact that [Kheldians] story and AT's feel neglected and forgotten. We're being invaded from alternate universes, galactic races are pounding on our front door, Nemesis has 99 Plots, would it be so bad if a squad of Lobster showed up somewhere to say "Hey, we'll help." No, about all they got out of the deal was one obsessed Roman.
You say we almost got overtaken by Nictus?
Great, I'll throw the hardcover on my coffee table and worry about the War Work stomping my face first.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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This is kind of a modern day problem that has occurred in the past I am sure. There is a literal definition of the word EPIC which I listed and the devs that made the "story" that is directly tied to the AT, ALONG with them saying ALL ALONG that "EPIC MEANS STORY", it is not their fault "some" players want to use the "street" term themselves and hold the devs to that meaning.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Feel better now? Glad you got that out of your system. Now, for the third time: My Opinion vs. Your Opinion. Stalemate.
I fully understood from these same issues years ago that the developers defined the archetype by the poetic term Epic. But what you're missing is the fact that most of the playerbase does not know that. When they see "EPIC" AT, most don't Immediately Think Illiad. Comparatively, the entire game could be coined as an Epic and more justly deserve it. Yes, the devs claimed it was meant to be that, but it was misleading from the get-go. People see Epic and expect something Awesome. Not an outdated storyline that is outshined by the level of interactive story-telling and talent that is running the game now. |
That is an unreasonable position and is a serious problem in communication with people these days. It happens here in the forums all the time. Someone will say something with a specific meaning then the other will come along with the street meaning.
I view it as a form of intellectual dishonesty to some degree since it is "clear" what the word epic meant from the start. Players have and should continue to push for positive changes in the AT, but to try to redfine "EPIC" and hold the devs to that is asinine.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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And with that you show you're not worth the time. Brush off what you dont' want to hear, keep throwing out BS that shows you're not paying attention, and "tl;dr" another post - |
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
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No. You're not worth the time or the minor annoyance you've made yourself.
Learn what the hell you're talking about first. Then take it to someone who still cares to listen to you. Because even what you DO say shows you haven't paid any attention to the evolution of either the Kheld AT or the slow expansion of their place in the world's lore. And there's zero reason to redo their arcs - given what we've seen with some of the "new tech," and with the piss-poor VEAT arcs that could have taken advantage of, say, branching when you pick a "career," frankly, I'd rather they NOT touch them.
Welp, this got out of control.
Memphis_Bill, this thread is *explicitly* about making Kheldians better from a numbers perspective. Your opinion on their storyline as compared to the VEAT storyline is interesting from a weight of effort perspective, but has nothing to do with numbers and performance. In this thread, you have contributed exactly zero content to the discussion at hand.
I'm going to be asking for some clean-up in this thread, and then I'll get to posting my own ideas to hopefully get the thread back onto something resembling a track.
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Dude, as much as I love what you're trying to do: Welcome to the internet.|
Originally Posted by Rakeeb
Welp, this got out of control.
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Seriously though, before we can even think about 'fixing' kheldians we need to define what the problem is and prove it exists. Smiling Joe did a ton of math comparing warshades to PBs a while ago, and it's helped bring PBs up to par with WS, but now we're talking about putting them on par with everybody.
The thing is, I'm not convinced PBs are not on par. Sure, our damage is kind of low, but our survivability is ridiculously high. How do we prove that our damage is too low for the amount of survivability we can obtain?
I can't answer that.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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But what can Peacebringers really *do* with all that survivability? Peacebringers aren't tanks, they're meant to be 'jack of all trades' AT's, and other AT's can already do everything that Peacebringers can do, except better. My high end Fiery Aura Scrapper has been built in a way that, even though I doubt his numbers could match a PB's in a survivability analysis, is in game capable of withstanding the same difficulty settings as a high end Peacebringer, while doing substantially more damage. Now, if LA was a tank set, that'd be one thing, but Peacebringers are supposed to at least be equal parts Blaster as Tank without even considering the jumbled and often redundant role of human form. Sure, a case can be made for Tank level durability, but Nova form and Human form don't do anywhere near Blaster level damage- In fact, in a lot of cases, they struggle to compete with even Defenders.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Dude, as much as I love what you're trying to do: Welcome to the internet.
Seriously though, before we can even think about 'fixing' kheldians we need to define what the problem is and prove it exists. Smiling Joe did a ton of math comparing warshades to PBs a while ago, and it's helped bring PBs up to par with WS, but now we're talking about putting them on par with everybody. The thing is, I'm not convinced PBs are not on par. Sure, our damage is kind of low, but our survivability is ridiculously high. How do we prove that our damage is too low for the amount of survivability we can obtain? I can't answer that. |
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Dechs' and I hashed this out a bit in-game last night and both agreed that, from a numbers stand point, how do we prove that they under perform? PB's specifically, what do we con|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
But what can Peacebringers really *do* with all that survivability? Peacebringers aren't tanks, they're meant to be 'jack of all trades' AT's, and other AT's can already do everything that Peacebringers can do, except better. My high end Fiery Aura Scrapper has been built in a way that, even though I doubt his numbers could match a PB's in a survivability analysis, is in game capable of withstanding the same difficulty settings as a high end Peacebringer, while doing substantially more damage. Now, if LA was a tank set, that'd be one thing, but Peacebringers are supposed to at least be equal parts Blaster as Tank without even considering the jumbled and often redundant role of human form. Sure, a case can be made for Tank level durability, but Nova form and Human form don't do anywhere near Blaster level damage- In fact, in a lot of cases, they struggle to compete with even Defenders.
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pare them against? Currently their melee is equivalent to non-fury brute damage, and their ranged is equivalent to defenders; but their survivability is comparable to a tank. At what point does ranged ability outweigh damage against their level of survival?
We ultimately need to know how kheldians fit into the AT-verse and determine if they flat-out need a buff to damage, or would we have to sacrifice defense to balance. The scales?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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The biggest problem I have with my Peacebringer is the very limited potential. I enjoy playing him and do so regularly, but I don't use purples in his build anymore for the simple fact that high end Peacebringer performance is not very different from mid-budget performance. On my mains I invest a considerable amount and their performance is the payoff, but Peacebringers seem to be locked into mediocrity.
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Dechs' and I hashed this out a bit in-game last night and both agreed that, from a numbers stand point, how do we prove that they under perform? PB's specifically, what do we con
pare them against? Currently their melee is equivalent to non-fury brute damage, and their ranged is equivalent to defenders; but their survivability is comparable to a tank. At what point does ranged ability outweigh damage against their level of survival? We ultimately need to know how kheldians fit into the AT-verse and determine if they flat-out need a buff to damage, or would we have to sacrifice defense to balance. The scales? |
Remove the UNIQUE tag from the Overwhelming Force set.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
They could create IO sets which reduce KB that you can have in more than one power. The balance issue can be sorted by not having the set buff dps as much as another set would and in its universalness. It can be applied to other ATs...and ofc toggle suppression.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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This is a very good question and not one easily answered by the current design of the class. How do Pulsar and Glowing Touch fit into the current strata, for instance? |
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Dechs' and I hashed this out a bit in-game last night and both agreed that, from a numbers stand point, how do we prove that they under perform? PB's specifically, what do we con
pare them against? Currently their melee is equivalent to non-fury brute damage, and their ranged is equivalent to defenders; but their survivability is comparable to a tank. At what point does ranged ability outweigh damage against their level of survival? We ultimately need to know how kheldians fit into the AT-verse and determine if they flat-out need a buff to damage, or would we have to sacrifice defense to balance. The scales? |
There's no easy answers to that.
EDIT: I prefer to think as the Human form as a Scrapper with lower relative damage and big on-target debuffs, the Dwarf as a tank, and the Nova as a blaster. The problem with that currently is that the Human is *much* lower damage and has very mild control and ally heal abilities, the Nova is missing most Blaster tools and the Dwarf is missing most Tank tools.
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That would probably be why the AT 'guide' when you select a character lists every value as ? for Khelds.
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Originally Posted by Rakeeb
This is a very good question and not one easily answered by the current design of the class. How do Pulsar and Glowing Touch fit into the current strata, for instance?
There's no easy answers to that. |
If I had my way, I'd change the following powers. Some of this is trivial, and some of it is (very) non-trivial.
Concept Guide:
Dwarf: Tank
Nova: Blaster
Human: Scrapper
GLOBAL
Peacebringer/General: Damage cap raised to 500%. Health cap raised to 2600.
Peacebringer/General: Peacebringers are no longer locked out of the Flight and Teleport Power Pools.
Peacebringer/General: Peacebringers receive Energy Flight and Combat Flight as they do now; they also gain Flash Step as a natural power at level 20.
Peacebringer/Flash Step: Functions as White Dwarf Teleport, but can be used in Human or Dwarf forms.
Peacebringer/General: Toggle Suppression added for all Peacebringer powers. The Peacebringer self-suppresses when transformed.
Peacebringer/General: Luminance - New mechanic. Each successful Peacebringer attack places a stack of Luminance on the target. This reduces Defense by 3%, Resistance by 5%, Perception by 15%, and Regeneration Rate on the target by 10%. Stacks up to 5 times, each stack lasting 10 seconds. Certain powers are modified by the presence of Luminance on the target. All Peacebringer abilities no longer apply defense debuffs, and no Peacebringer ability will accept Defense Debuff enhancements unless specifically noted further.
Peacebringer/Cosmic Balance: Scaled down and broadened. Up to 20 party or league members can now contribute to Cosmic Balance. Cosmic Balance is now a 5% Defense bonus for each offensive member of your party and a 10% Damage bonus for each defensive member of your party. Control party member effects are unchanged. Epic AT effects are now 10% resistance to Slow, Recharge Speed, Defense Debuff Resistance, Endurance Cost resistance, Endurance Drain resistance, regeneration resistance, and recovery resistance. Each ability caps at 5 members.
LUMINOUS BLAST
Peacebringer/Gleaming Bolt: increase damage to 39.34 and recharge to 3s.
Peacebringer/Glinting Eye: increase damage to 65.73 and recharge to 7s; change animation time to 1.33 (1.484 Arcana).
Peacebringer/Gleaming Blast: increase damage to 94.14 and recharge to 10s. When in Bright Nova form, Gleaming Blast can benefit from Luminance on the target. Gleaming Blast will deal an extra 4.66 damage per stack of Luminance on the target.
Peacebringer/Bright Nova: Complete change. No more Bright Nova attacks; instead core Peacebringer attacks are modified. Increases damage scale on all Ranged attacks to 1.2 from 0.8. Locks the Peacebringer out of all melee attacks and self-buffs; only Gleaming Bolt, Glinting Eye, Gleaming Blast, Inner Light, Proton Scatter, Luminous Detonation, and Dawn Strike are accessible in Bright Nova form. These powers must be acquired by the Peacebringer prior to being available to Bright Nova. All attacks' Range are boosted by 20% in addition to the baseline Bright Nova buff line of 45% Damage, 10% ToHit, and 20% Recovery. Good thing the code exists to do this from Primalist work.
Peacebringer/Brilliant Fist: New ability. Available at level 6. Damage scale 1.4, 66.05 base damage, recharge 6s, end cost 6.86. Places a stack of Luminance on the target. Small chance (20%) to Disorient the target, mag 2. This is essentially a Smite clone.
Peacebringer/Proton Scatter: Cast time changed to 1.5 (1.716 Arcana). Otherwise unchanged.
Peacebringer/Inner Light: All attacks apply +1 stacks of Luminance while under the effects of Inner Light.
Peacebringer/Luminous Detonation: Unchanged.
Peacebringer/Radiant Strike: Moved to level 18. Unchanged otherwise.
Peacebringer/Challenge: New ability, learned at level 18. Taunts a single enemy. In Dwarf form, Challenge gains an AOE. No ToHit check; no application of Luminance.
Peacebringer/Pulsar: Animation time changed to 1 second; Magnitude remains at 2.0 strength. Pulsar also blinds its targets, placing a -10% ToHit and -50% Perception on each target, lasting the same duration as the Disorient. Pulsar additionally places a stack of Luminance on any affected targets.
Peacebringer/Glowing Touch: CUT. Power slot moved up to become Challenge.
Peacebringer/Incandescent Strike: Moved to level 26 from level 18. Damage and recharge unchanged. Incandescent Strike can benefit from Luminance on the target. Incandescent Strike will deal an extra 11.10 damage per stack of Luminance on the target.
Peacebringer/Solar Flare: Unchanged.
Peacebringer/Photon Seekers: Recharge changed from 180s to 90s. Spawns 6 Photon Seekers rather than three; each deals half of previous Photon Seeker damage values. Power unmodified otherwise. Intent is to allow the power to be more flexible without changing the fundamental nature of the power, and to allow it to be used more often.
Peacebringer/Dawn Strike: Endurance cost raised to 27.76, recharge reduced to 145 seconds from 360; crash removed. Dawn Strike can benefit from Luminance on the target, and will deal an extra 14.80 damage per stack of Luminance. When in Bright Nova form, Luminance will function as a Targeted AOE rather than a PBAOE ability, but will be unchanged otherwise.
LUMINOUS AURA
Peacebringer/Incandescence: Now provides 10% passive Energy and Negative Energy resistance, and also provides 25% Slow and Recharge Time resistance.
Peacebringer/Shining Shield: Now provides 27% Smashing/Lethal Resistance, and 10% Psionic and Toxic resistance. The Psionic and Toxic resistance is Unenhanceable. Shining Shield also grants 25% Defense Debuff resistance. Endurance cost lowered to 0.21/sec.
Peacebringer/Essence Boost: Unchanged.
Peacebringer/Thermal Shield: Now provides 27% Fire/Cold Resistance, and 10% Psionic and Toxic resistance. The Psionic and Toxic resistance is Unenhanceable. Thermal Shield also grants 25% Recovery and Endurance Drain resistance. Endurance cost lowered to 0.21/sec.
Peacebringer/Quantum Shield: Now provides 27% Energy and Negative Energy Resistance, and 10% Psionic and Toxic resistance. The Psionic and Toxic resistance is Unenhanceable. Also provides scaling Mag 0.67-Mag 5.13 resistance to Hold, Disorient, Sleep, and Fear effects. Endurance cost lowered to 0.21/sec.
Peacebringer/Radiance: New ability, replaces Group Energy Flight, available at level 16. Radiance is a toggle power that provides a scaling +Def bonus and also radiates energy onto the foes, pulsing a stack of Luminance onto up to 10 targets in range every 2 seconds. The +Def from your Radiance is highest from the first foe targeted, and has a cap of 10 targets. In White Dwarf form, Radiance also applies a Taunt to all enemies affected by Radiance. Endurance cost is 0.21/sec, recharge is 10s.
Peacebringer/White Dwarf: Complete change. No more White Dwarf attacks; instead core Peacebringer attacks are modified. Decreases damage on all Melee and PBAoE abilities from 0.85 to 0.75. Locks the Peacebringer out of many abilities; only Flash Step, Brilliant Fist, Radiant Strike, Challenge, Incandescent Strike, Solar Flare, Essence Boost, Radiance, and Reform Essence are accessible in White Dwarf form. These powers must be acquired by the Peacebringer prior to being available to White Dwarf. All attack abilities also provide a 5 target AoE Taunt effect, similar to Gauntlet. White Dwarf itself provides 37.5% Resistance to all abilities, 200% Regeneration resistance, tank-level Hold/Sleep/Fear/Disorient/Knockdown resistance(capping at 12.98) and +80% Max Health. Good thing the code exists to do this from Primalist work.
Peacebringer/Reform Essence: Unchanged normally. When used in Dwarf Form, it uses the current base health modifier of White Dwarf Sublimation, 45% of max HP.
Peacebringer/Energize: Changed from Conserve Energy. This ability has a 30s duration / 120s recharge, boosts Regeneration by 100%, reduces Endurance costs by 59.6%, and incorporates a 25% Heal. A clone of all other Energize powers.
Peacebringer/Quantum Acceleration: Unchanged for now. I think that it should be moved to Inherent, but I haven't got a suitable replacement that's not just a passive clone from another set.
Peacebringer/Quantum Flight: Unchanged.
Peacebringer/Restore Essence: Unchanged for now. I think that this can be better, but I'd rather not just clone Rise of the Phoenix and give it tentacles.
Peacebringer/Light Form: Significant nerf. Resistance bonus lowered to +22.5% to all damage types save Psionic. Recovery bonus and Mez resistances unchanged. Crash removed.
So that's the overhaul I'd do given the chance. A few points of note:
1. Endurance Drain is the achilles' heel of the Dwarf as designed here. It gets mild resistances from Thermal Shield when acting as a Scrapper, but obviously cannot benefit from that in Dwarf form. Energize and Light Form can get a Dwarf by assuming it's not a nonstop fight, a quick swap out and in can fix it.
2. Luminance is not designed to be utilized by many attacks for extra damage per stack. Only three attacks here use it, one of which requires you to be in Bright Nova form, and that's by design. It's already quite good for the Peacebringer and doesn't need to be better.
3. This is designed to have more abilities than you can effectively slot if you choose to try to go Triform, because now the shields are good now, Light Form isn't a one-power-for-invincibility card, and Radiance/Energize will eat slots to be effective. Compromises will have to be made at certain points if you're committing to go Triform. It rewards a player who is trying to play one area more tightly than the others - be it a Scrapper build with an off-Blaster component or a guy who wants to swap between Nova and Dwarf.
4. Pulsar is still a stretch. I could see cutting it entirely.
Have at it, fellas, let me know what you think.
EDIT: In case anyone is thinking that a full AT overhaul example is a good way to give feedback to the devs: It's not. The devs aren't interested in people telling them what to do. This is essentially a thought and stats analysis/implementation project for me at this point, and all I hope to do is cause meaningful discussion and actual numbers-based suggestions. I'll probably use something similar to this in D&D / Pathfinder at some point for my mobs, have a roomful of dudes who can all stack Luminance on the target, that sort of thing.
Well, Rakeeb, let's have a look see.
I like the idea that the concepts are taken into account, and allowing for an increase in damage, health and especially Endurance Efficiency can provide a significant starting point for Peacebringers.
Personally, I would have simply settled on adjustments to Light Form. Instead of it being a Stacking effect, it would be a refresh effect, with the crash applying when you stop applying Light Form.
However, the changes you've suggested are ones that I really like, and they'd probably tempt me to play my Peacebringer again.
One thing I will suggest would be something that was suggested earlier, which is to change Reform Essence into a PBAoE Heal, since Glowing Touch would be replaced with Challenge, and it would retain the minor support aspect the AT already had.
I really thought about that, which brought on some real implications in kit. For instance, let's say that we make Glowing Touch or Reform Essence into an AOE setup - like have Reform Essence provide the PBAOE component and have Glowing Touch provide the single-target component, to match Thermal and Empathy. What do we do then? I pushed it a little bit - drop Pulsar for some kind of group AOE buff thing based on clarity of vision (CC protection, ToHit, maybe some +Defense or something similar) and then come up with a fourth defender-esque power. I figured between that and very heavy power pool dipping it might just be possible to play a Peacebringer as a defender-esque force multiplier, killing minions with Nova AOE's and keeping the team alive with heals while being incredibly hard to kill.
The thing is, while the defender playstyle does vary wildly, it typically has a few constants, primary among which is that the defender is rarely a "hard" target. If the mobs can hit the defender, the defender is injured or defeated. So therefore how do we replicate that performance in a set with as many powerful defensive implications as one with Luminous Aura and still preserve the scrapper-ish playstyle? The answer is pretty simple: as long as we have the current paradigm, you don't.
I also messed around with changing the Peacebringer entirely away from a scrapper kit to make it a tank-defender, remove Bright Nova and replace it with something appropriately defender-ish, but then the idea just died because a defender who was very hard to kill is something that this game doesn't do, period. We can have tank-mages, if you will, but we do NOT have tank-buffers and we likely never will. The closest that we got to that was Masterminds and their force multipliers dropped in comparative value like rocks.
Not that the ideas are bad because they work with other AT's, but that is my point, some things being suggested here are too much of the same ole change the PB to "insert your favorite AT here" and that horse has been beaten to death.
Having said that the last change PB thread actually had several "excellent" non AT changing suggestions the devs are looking into.
In my pm's to Arbiter Hawk regarding this issue I was pleasantly surprised to find him a strong advocate of maintaining the AT and the changes made last October were evidence of this desire. I feel confident that he will continue to make changes that fit in and don't try to make Khelds some other AT already in the game, which of course would be an unmitigated disaster.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
yeah I don't think the devs have given up on the AT either, I just think that they need to take stronger measures to catch the AT up to the rest of the set. Whether they'll make the AT like others is a question mark, but in its current state it's got bits of underpowered scrapper, tank and blaster in there, so that's what I went with, and removed or radically changed the largely-unsupported control and support elements. Honestly, I don't think the devs will use anything like that.
Alls I'm after is meaningful discussion, DK, and the ability to stretch my brain muscles in quantifying and adding ideas.
EDIT: I'm a guy that believes heavily in balance, more so than I fear homogenization. Very few other people agree with that, so I know my ideas are typically in the negative to begin with.
They're a bonus set that we're supposed to be excited to have unlocked and enjoy playing. I'm sure the reason no one's seen toggle suppression for form switching is due to a code-issue somewhere in the transformation setup. It is super old code at this point. But an animation tweak is something that can happen now. The VEATS have several levels of "Epic" to them outside of storylines, I think it's time Khelds could say the same.