Is water blast obsolete before it launches?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-09 16:54 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I WILL play water blast because my Nyad is a water elemental and she controls water and ice. I actually don't care if its the best set available. In time I will compensate with good IO slotting.
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For damage. Water should be near the bottom of blast sets for damage and I hope it actually ends up there, but I am not convinced it will.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
THe set is fine now. Im just afraid its going to drop near the bottom when 24 comes out.
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Even if it does end up at the bottom in relative ranking for damage output, it still does plenty of damage to keep a solid solo pace and contribute well on teams. The bottom will still be within a reasonable range of performance.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Water Blast's niche is not its single target DPS. I'm highly skeptical that a change that increases other blast sets' single target DPS threatens Water Blast's niche in any way.
Here's a related example: Archery's Ranged Shot is on track to be the slowest animating instasniper blast in the game. But I don't see anyone saying a sniper change is going to make Archery obsolete.
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Such an odd response directly after my post.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
THe set is fine now. Im just afraid its going to drop near the bottom when 24 comes out.
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He doesn't want to play in a way that leads to top performance. That would have him playing AR or Fire after the snipe changes. He wants to play the shiny new set and still be promised top performance.|
Originally Posted by Zandock
For all your people's whining about just playing how you want, you sure do jump down someone's throat for wanting to play in a way that leads to top performance.
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There are a lot more sets competing for the top 3 slots among blast sets than just the top 3, even before Water Blast comes out. Some of them have serious mechanical flaws that make it profoundly unlikely that they will represent any threat to a fundamentally well designed set like Water Blast, fastsnipe or not. I don't see any real chance that Water Blast will be the worst set, and the OP says that's what he's really worried about. If we are going to do him the honor of believing what he says, he's panicking about nothing. WB may not be top 3. It will almost certainly not be top 3 after the changes. It will also almost certainly not be bottom 3. That's a sign of a properly designed set.
Also, read the thread in the Blaster forum about how sets are expected to perform after the fastsnipe change. There is a massive gap between the bad sets and the good sets. Note that most of the bad sets (in this case meaning merely poor single target damage, not actually bad as in underpowered or mis-designed) actually have snipes to benefit from fastsnipe. If a set has poor damage potential, fastsnipe is not going to rescue it.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
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If every set but Water, ice, elec, DP get better and those stand still, then they get worse by default.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Then why are you presuming any changes to blaster ranged sets are coming that would hurt Water Blast?
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The fast snipe changes are very high for blasters, but very reasonable and easy for corruptors/defenders.
I have been a long time proponent of blasters being inferior to Cor/def
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I think she was talking about this part:|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
If every set but Water, ice, elec, DP get better and those stand still, then they get worse by default.
The fast snipe changes are very high for blasters, but very reasonable and easy for corruptors/defenders. I have been a long time proponent of blasters being inferior to Cor/def |
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| PS... Until changes are on test, they arent real.. I dont care what is promised, until its in black and white or blue and white in patch notes, its not real. |
I understand nothing of this discussion.
Water blast is a controlling assault... it is on par with Ice Blast and Dual Pistols. As it has no snipe and it has reasonable control...
The Devs stated that Ice and Pistols will be looked at for I24 so they also get a good benefit from the blaster changes. We are not yet to I24. Presume that Water Blast will get the same treatment as Ice and Pistols. You can goto Beta and check these changes out.
For now.. Water is just as good as Ice and Pistols. Enjoy the concept. Play it or not. If you really only want to play with the high damage numbers... make an energy blaster!
*sarcasm mode on*
NO.. not every new set will be better then sets before that. Actually.. the way a game is made is that you try to get all sets on the same level.
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Nothing with as much AoE as Water will ever fall to the bottom. Although can't lie, I would play this set no matter what. Dagnabbit, I wish I was home now. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Water blast is about balanced with current sets now, but thats going to leave it way in the dust when the snipe changes come in.
Is it worth bothering with the set if its going to fall to near the bottom in just a month or two? |
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And why on earth would you assume that "every set but Water, ice, elec, DP get" will get better and that those sets will not? The devs already said non snipe sets would be adjusted to compensate.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
If every set but Water, ice, elec, DP get better and those stand still, then they get worse by default.
The fast snipe changes are very high for blasters, but very reasonable and easy for corruptors/defenders. I have been a long time proponent of blasters being inferior to Cor/def |
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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They said they would be looked at and adjusted if needed. We know Pistols is getting something. We can also be pretty sure Electric is going to get something due to other dev comments.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
And why on earth would you assume that "every set but Water, ice, elec, DP get" will get better and that those sets will not? The devs already said non snipe sets would be adjusted to compensate.
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Ice and Water may not have any changes specifically targeted at them (their tier 3s will go to 80 feet).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Nothing like getting your DOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOmmmmmmMMM! in early, I guess.
You forgot a few "o"s in there, Bill.
Also, honestly, does it matter? I think the new power abilities given to ALL Blasters are WAY more important (and bear more attention to make sure they get them right) than which set does more damage. Know why the damage discussion is so huge? Because Blasters are nigh-impossible (to me, anyway) to enjoy, when there are better ATs to play that do almost as much damage for WAY more survivability. People are used to wanting more damage for Blasters they play because that's the only way they could stay upright.
Now, I think, with more utility, the desire to branch out and play other concepts than Fire/ will cause the OMG MOAR DAMAGEZ PLZ! to die down a bit.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Looking at the set more closely
This will be a good set for Cor/def no matter what happens. The nuke is so powerful that no matter what other changes are made it will still be good, Because Cor/def can leverage that nuke with +rech and +damn Im specifically thinking Time/rad/kin I dont think other support sets will be able to really work that nuke.
I think people figured that out, because this mornign while running DFB's I saw 5 cor's 1 blaster 1 defender... and 1 mm... yeah I didnt get that either.
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This maybe my one real chance of having a sidekick of a character. You know that plucky young tag along who pales in comparison to everyone else who pretty much irritates the bad guys whilst they're pre-disposed with a real hero. All because fighting with water balloons pretty much is all it sounds like to me. You have to jet water to make it hurt or there has to be absolutely loads of it. Sure drowning people by making them a bubble head works for me too.
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Or tint it orange and call it Lava Blast 
Again, what makes you think the dev's won't give something sets without a snipe so as to make them balanced to sets WITH snipes?
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The desperate need to have something to complain about no matter how misdirected or misrepresented?
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Originally Posted by Issen
Again, what makes you think the dev's won't give something sets without a snipe so as to make them balanced to sets WITH snipes?
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i make stuff...
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Electric has a Snipe.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
If every set but Water, ice, elec, DP get better and those stand still, then they get worse by default.
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No it is fine!
Soon�
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Water blast is about balanced with current sets now, but thats going to leave it way in the dust when the snipe changes come in.
Is it worth bothering with the set if its going to fall to near the bottom in just a month or two? |
I don't think the snipe changes are as significant as people seem to think. Are they good? Yes. Will snipes finally be worth taking? Yes. Would I rework an effective build I'm happy with just to shoehorn in a snipe? No. Will it be totally game changing? Doubtful. Will it make Water Blast obsolete already? I seriously doubt it.
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That's certainly my feel on 2 Gun. Change the animations, and I'd love the set. The curving bullets do annoy me, but it was lame in 'Wanted' too. I just skip that power, though, and problem solved. It's the over the top animations on every power that prevent me from wanting to play the set more often, though, and is the real problem from my perspective.
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Originally Posted by RaikenX
Typically, the most requested adjustments to DP that I usually see around the boards are:
Adjusted/Alternate animations. Usually the latter as many people don't particually care for the Equilibrium gun-fu motif. Those that chime in on adjusted animation times most often pick out Executioner's Shot and Piercing Shot...with a lesser degree on Hail of Bullets and Empty Clips (and sometimes Bullet Rain...though what i thought was slightly odd was the big hullabaloo of the curving bullets on that one. In "Wanted"...it was cool...awesome even. But in CoH...somehow it "didn't work". I'm STILL trying to figure that one out!) |
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It's doesn't have a short ST blast to be extended, however. Presumably that it what Shubbie's referring to The fact that we've been told by a redname that they are looking at tweaking Voltaic Sentinel as well as planning to track Elec's performance after i24 may not matter. Depends on how far along the hyperbole addiction has progressed.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Electric has a Snipe.
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To answer the question in the OP: No.
That's it. No.
Especially considering no set has ever been "obsolete," IMO.
"Not as good as Fire Blast" doesn't mean a set is underperforming.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.