Is water blast obsolete before it launches?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-09 16:54 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Christ dude, do you have form letters for all new sets?
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This I agree with. I thought about trying to convince Synapse, but after playtesting, I felt I didn't really have much to stand on. The control I saw on paper actually ended up being more effective once I started playing it.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Geyser just isn't available often enough
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Of course, I remember Inferno used to recharge in 180 seconds. I miss that. When Synapse mentioned that nukes were originally designed for the long recharge, my first thought, was, "Nuh uh, they were nerfed to the 6 minutes but were originally designed much faster," but I guess only Inferno was faster.
My thought now is that it is better to release it at 3 minutes and change it to 2 if appropriate. I am sure they wish Rain of Arrows was 2 minutes instead of 1.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Mercenaries and Ninjas disupute your assertion supported by no evidence given.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Beast mastery has been proven to be by far the worst MM primary
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Nah I LOVED Titan weapon.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Christ dude, do you have form letters for all new sets?
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BEam is a very well balanced set.
Time is now my favorite buff/debuff.
Human nature, complain about the bad, stay quiet about whats good.
What you going to do
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Um.. How do you have a 'constant' chance? That is silly wording. You mean the chance is always there, and giving..that %chance. No constant about it. Also..remember all those people who hate KB? You cant stop all the kb in AR. And ignite? Yeah great damage, but good luck hitting anything with all the tics..unless it is locked down. And if you have been locking it down yourself, well..that is branching out into other powersets.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Full auto = Dead things Geyser = Stunned dead things slug = constant chance of knocked back things M30 = constant chance of knocked back things Buck Shot = constant chance of knocked back things Hydro Burst = Variable chance of Knocked back things Hydro Blast = Variable chance of Knocked back things Ignite = Run Away No match on water. Its win will be corruptors and defenders where the control in geyser will be nice. |
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Good one Zan. Because the comments about how it wont be a top performing have SO much to do with playstyle. Not. Take fire blast..you would have to TRY to make that a bad performing set. With almost any playstyle its gonna be good. In case you didn't pick up on it..we were saying its silly to expect the set itself to be the best...nothing about the way he is/will be playing.
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Originally Posted by Zandock
For all your people's whining about just playing how you want, you sure do jump down someone's throat for wanting to play in a way that leads to top performance.
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For one thing, even with the i24 changes we know about so far, Water Blast will still have better AoE than Fire Blast, plus a self heal, plus knockdowns/slows/the ability to slot Achilles' Heel. So it's not being totally left in the dust, here.
For another, Arbiter Hawk specifically mentioned that there could be other changes in i24 if sets without snipes (like Water) fall behind. i24 isn't even in beta yet, so its feature list is pretty tentative.
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Wait, who propped up this straw man in the corner?!|
Originally Posted by Zandock
For all your people's whining about just playing how you want, you sure do jump down someone's throat for wanting to play in a way that leads to top performance.
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i specifically said i wanted a man made out of bricks for that corner!
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. (Quoting one of JB's better points.) |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Um.. How do you have a 'constant' chance? That is silly wording. You mean the chance is always there, and giving..that %chance. No constant about it. Also..remember all those people who hate KB? You cant stop all the kb in AR. And ignite? Yeah great damage, but good luck hitting anything with all the tics..unless it is locked down. And if you have been locking it down yourself, well..that is branching out into other powersets.
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Water blast has a variable chance of kb depending on your current level tidal forces. This is opposed to AR which has fixed percentage chance.
Almost all the blaster secondaries have an immob.
In an alternate universe where Synapse and Arbiter Hawk couldn't see that it was the same three people griping about sets being underpowered for not being titan weapons every single time a new set comes out this might be pretty persuasive stuff. Good luck, friends!
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You did it again..variable chance. Isn't a chance..obviously variable? Not to mention..doesnt teh % go up to 100 on some of the WB attacks? KNOWING you will kb something, as a certainty, sounds a bit better than just a chance..|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Water blast has a variable chance of kb depending on your current level tidal forces. This is opposed to AR which has fixed percentage chance.
Almost all the blaster secondaries have an immob. |
And again..why does it even matter? The set is NOT AR. Pretty obvious yeah..but why should it do all ar does? Does ar have a Heal? OMG buff ar??
Did someone say buff AR?! Buff AR! Devs hate AR! Did you know that super strength has more than seven million times more melee DPS than AR? This is such a slap in the face!
I know Rec..crazy notion! I do find it hilarious that AR is now being held up as a 'top' set (most likely due to that blaster performancy thread) after so many years of hearing how much it sucked from pretty much everyone I came into contact with.
Well..besides one friend who has like 20 AR toons..but I think he might have a bit of a gun fetish.
Not to mention..Water with a crashless nuke? Oh noes..it makes it not the SAME as all those crashing sets! Like Fire! BUFF fire blast too!
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No|
Originally Posted by MisterD
You did it again..variable chance. Isn't a chance..obviously variable?
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| Not to mention..doesnt teh % go up to 100 on some of the WB attacks? KNOWING you will kb something, as a certainty, sounds a bit better than just a chance.. |
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| And again..why does it even matter? The set is NOT AR. Pretty obvious yeah..but why should it do all ar does? Does ar have a Heal? OMG buff ar?? |
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Have you noticed that everyone else has noticed that you specifically want every set to be the best set? Especially new sets, those have to be the best set or they just aren't any good at all.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There are only 2 things that any set does that actually matter. Killing the enemies and keeping you alive. Water blast keeps you alive a little better but not nearly enough to make up for its deficit in killing enemies.
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Best at what?
BEST SET!
Who's measuring quality?
BEST SET!
How about this set? How's this one?
NOT BEST! BAD SET!
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You seem to be screaming at a voice in your head.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Have you noticed that everyone else has noticed that you specifically want every set to be the best set? Especially new sets, those have to be the best set or they just aren't any good at all.
Best at what? BEST SET! Who's measuring quality? BEST SET! How about this set? How's this one? NOT BEST! BAD SET! |
If for nothing else its impossible for every set to be the best set.
Water blast is a reasonable but little low performer now, but will fall behind with the snipe changes. That's just the way the cookie is crumbling.
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'm pretty sure most of the changes to Water and other sets without a snipe will all be in for issue 24, or 24.5.
Matter of fact, I'd bet on it.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
THe set is fine now. Im just afraid its going to drop near the bottom when 24 comes out.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Why wouldn't water blast be adjusted to fit in with the changes planned for Blasters in the future?
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
You seem to be screaming at a voice in your head.
If for nothing else its impossible for every set to be the best set. Water blast is a reasonable but little low performer now, but will fall behind with the snipe changes. That's just the way the cookie is crumbling. |
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(a) It's not the only snipe-less set that might drop.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
THe set is fine now. Im just afraid its going to drop near the bottom when 24 comes out.
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(b) Devs are aware that snipe-less exist and that they should get something
(c) We haven't seen Hawks entire plan yet.
(d) Even if Water dropped to bottom, that'll be a buff to whoever is bottom now, so 'yay?'
(e) Enough people who are willing to put the work and crunch the numbers will make enough of a stink in Blaster changes Beta to bring this into the devs attention.
(=) Don't panic till you see the monster in your room.
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sadly, it seems the Devs have learned their lesson and are now applying proper AT mods to Rain Powers. We saw it in Defender's Rain of Fire, and currently on test Whirlpool does proper damage for a Defender. I didn't check Corruptor, but I imagine it has the proper damage mods for them as well.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
It is a very solid corruptor/defender set as long as the whirlpool gets the same damage as the blaster version does.
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Whirlpool numbers currently on Test, for those interested;
(damage over 15 seconds)
Defender- 75
Corruptor - 87
Blaster - 131
Even if the snipe changes go live. It won't make any set anymore powerful. The requirements to have snipe 'not suck' are really high and aren't going to turn any set into anything more amazing then sets without a snipe. Sets without a snipe don't have to build for tohit or to some arbitrary number and can focus and better stats. Snipes are still over rated. A single target high damage attack can only be so useful.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Good point Vel..unless we are talking Devices, that was shown to be able to hit that 'non sucky' to hit by itself. You are saying that a fire/devs blaster with perma fast snipe..wont benefit and be ANY better than without?
Or lets talk about the other ATs using Blasts who will be able to hit it all the time? Fender tactics, farsight etc. Again..totally does not make some blast sets better.. And yes, I understand it does not change a set ITSELF..but since sets are used as a pair..
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Then why are you presuming any changes to blaster ranged sets are coming that would hurt Water Blast?
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
I hesitate on that because they promise buffs then takes months or even years to actually put them into play.
I mean Gravity was underperforming since i6.... thats 15 issues.....Beast mastery has been proven to be by far the worst MM primary and not a hint of a change. Im very reluctanct to think they will buff a new set 2 months after it comes out the door no matter how badly it needs it. Especially since everyone will have bought it by then, why change something people have already paid for.. they wont even change something that people avoided buying because it was subpar. PS... Until changes are on test, they arent real.. I dont care what is promised, until its in black and white or blue and white in patch notes, its not real. |
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For all your people's whining about just playing how you want, you sure do jump down someone's throat for wanting to play in a way that leads to top performance.