By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-06-21 11:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
because I got FRIKKIN' SICK of Sharkhead Island
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Skyway is where I run SSA1, where I go to run Synapse (even if it mostly takes place elsewhere), where I sometimes join in to defeat Babbage, where I go to get to Bloody Bay (I never actually go there) or Faultline (unless I take a different route), where I go to get Skyway explore/history badges, and where I very occasionally go to stop a troll rave or beat up on supa trolls. Oh, and I have to go there to say hi to what's her name during a Moonfire TF.
That's about what I use it for. On very RARE occasions it's a shortcut to or from Perez Park or The Hollows, and CAN be a shortcut to or from Talos but I never even remember that part.
I'm sure all of that stuff could take place somewhere else... and there's nothing very interesting to see in Skyway... but then again, I don't know that all the work it would take to overhaul it or replace it would actually be worth it.
One might also ask: Is Indepencence Port superfluous? Is Brickstown? Is Eden? Is Crey's Folly? Is Boomtown? Is the Sewers or the Abandoned Sewers?
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When I think of Skyway... I think of playing my ice/ice blaster Jalia Ice on a random pickup team in Skyway waaaay back in 2004. I was teamed for several missions, and then the leader quit and someone else was in charge, and they said something like, "At last! NOW I can run things MY way!" and promptly kicked 2 or 3 others including me. And I wasn't sure if they were just a jerk or moron or if I'd been that bad of a player -- it was my first blaster ever, I may not have known how to play it well. And I also remember street hunting in the area near the Talos zone entrance. I was around level 16 or 17 at the time, and I probably spent a lot of time street hunting there... maybe several nights in a row. Kind of boggles the mind when you consider it in light of how things currently work.
I eventually transferred Jalia Ice to Freedom and renamed her Mouse Police (I have a Mouse Police on nearly every server) and played her up to 42. Maybe make it to 50 some day.
skyway is so terrible I've avoided it for years.
Annoying to navigate for runners, the content is absolutely abysmal, graphically snoozeworthy (and on purpose too- it really captures the essence of a freeway overpass, another place I spend as little time as possible), annoying enemies.
The only thing it has going for it is the Troll Rave.
Even so, I don't think it needs to be axed- folk who like it for whatever reason can still hang out there, for everyone else it's easy to skip.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm with Bill on this one. It took me a good year to get more than a single villain past CoV's 20s because I got FRIKKIN' SICK of Sharkhead Island.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
There's nothing specific to Skyway City because all of the old Launch contacts are interchangeable between the zones. You can get the Vahzilok Plague arc from a number of contacts between the zones. That doesn't mean the zone is "superfluous." It adds variety and it adds a feeling of size to the city, something the game sorely lacks, especially villain-side. The last thing we need is to drop meteorites on another zone and reduce our levelling path options yet again.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Even so, I don't think it needs to be axed- folk who like it for whatever reason can still hang out there, for everyone else it's easy to skip.
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My opinion, and I realize that it probably wont be shared by many, is that a lot of of "superfluous" lower level zones could stand to be revamped into level 45 to 50+ areas with corresponding content.
Not ALL of them, but definitely good number of them.
Why weight content more strongly towards the high levels?
Leveling up is easier then it's ever been. We blow through zones almost faster than we can run the content, especially in the lower levels. This has been true since the leveling curve was adjusted. Unless you delete or shelve your character at 50, or abandon them before that, they will spend more of their life at that level than they will at any other level range.
Furthermore, you're more likely to find a team willing to SK up lower level players than 50's wanting to scale down and lose their power, given the choice. It's just more logical to play at level of the highest team member. People want to be able to use the abilities they know they have.
Also, it's just my observation, but most people who aren't 50 are generally looking to get levels to they can get to 50. They tend to want to get those levels as fast and as easily as possible, and often that's from AE or DFB/DIB. Once at 50 you can slow down and enjoy the story. There's not as much of a rush to get anywhere, aside from the Incarnate system, which for the most part keeps the people grinding for it in trials. I find I pay attention to the actual content for the sake of enjoyment a lot more when I'm on my 50. I made it a point to do the new Night Ward content, not on the characters I had in range, but on my 50s. And while it wasn't torture being exempted down, I did notice and mind.
So, yeah, if I had my druthers, I see a slight content shift in favor of the ~50 game. I'm never at a loss to get XP when I'm leveling alts, but I'm always looking for stuff for my 50's to do.
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But some things don't fit the higher level game - Skyway City is very much a street level hero kind of zone, and the gangs and stories there there reflect it - a street gang zone in the 40-50 range doesn't flow with the way enemy groups are designed to present mroe global and cosmic threats as you level up.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
*snip*
What I'd love to see happen to the zone is a revamp that would make it look like Steel Canyon and the new Atlas Park combined, with aerial roadways twisting, turning, climbing, and dipping around and in-between gigantic, futuristic skyscrapers. A vertical zone like Grandville, but much easier to traverse thanks to all the roadways. Sure, the zone's backstory would need to be rewritten a little, but not THAT much. Heck, set Paragon City's Chinatown at ground level and ramp up the turf war between the Tsoo,Trolls, and Family, with Clockwork and Lost as outside parties that sometimes find themselves in the middle of things. |
What the legacy zones need first and foremost is the legacy arcs to be updated to be a single zone-arc (a la Faultline, Hollows, Croatoa, etc...).
Take the missions that exist for Steel and Sky and make two zone-arcs that cover the 3 factions each specialize in. Get rid of the contacts that give out the same mission. Move the one-off missions to a repeatable contact or the police scanner. Dump the FedEx missions and no more than one street-hunt per faction.
Once you do that, then you update the doors for the missions for logical progression through the zone. Then maybe update some of the zone-spawns.
Leave the environmental artists alone to make new maps, not revamp old zones.
IMO.
I never found it to be a troubling zone to travel with out Flight, it really easy for me, I use to do content there until GR and the new content came out. I am sure this zone is one and many zones getting revamp in the future.
Skyway, Kings Row and Brickstown look a lot more like the real world that makes up my everyday life. We in the US are all familiar with the little forgotten places that exist around or beneath the expressway. They're filled with cheap hotels and liquor stores, questionable chain restaurants and strip clubs, interspersed with some lonely visitor centers or tiny bits of rest area green space.
Moreso than the tall buildings of Steel Canyon, transit nightmare of Talos Island (one road and one rail line in and out? Really?) or the crappy faux-shiny world of Atlas Park, the "Gritty" bits of Paragon are what make it a real place. They belong in the game for that reason if no other. If I had my way, AP would be gone and the much more interesting and worthy Galaxy City would be the 1 - 6 Hero zone as well.
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Originally Posted by PunkRolex
Skyway, Kings Row and Brickstown look a lot more like the real world that makes up my everyday life. We in the US are all familiar with the little forgotten places that exist around or beneath the expressway. They're filled with cheap hotels and liquor stores, questionable chain restaurants and strip clubs, interspersed with some lonely visitor centers or tiny bits of rest area green space.
Moreso than the tall buildings of Steel Canyon, transit nightmare of Talos Island (one road and one rail line in and out? Really?) or the crappy faux-shiny world of Atlas Park, the "Gritty" bits of Paragon are what make it a real place. They belong in the game for that reason if no other. If I had my way, AP would be gone and the much more interesting and worthy Galaxy City would be the 1 - 6 Hero zone as well. |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But some things don't fit the higher level game - Skyway City is very much a street level hero kind of zone
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| and the gangs and stories there there reflect it |
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
These days its DFB>DFB>DFB>DFB>DFB>DFB>Night ward for midnighter badge>then ITFs or WSTs.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Villains only using about three doors per zone
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| There's nothing specific to Skyway City because all of the old Launch contacts are interchangeable between the zones. You can get the Vahzilok Plague arc from a number of contacts between the zones. That doesn't mean the zone is "superfluous." |
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Also, it's just my observation, but most people who aren't 50 are generally looking to get levels to they can get to 50. They tend to want to get those levels as fast and as easily as possible, and often that's from AE or DFB/DIB.
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| So, yeah, if I had my druthers, I see a slight content shift in favor of the ~50 game. I'm never at a loss to get XP when I'm leveling alts, but I'm always looking for stuff for my 50's to do. |
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
My opinion, and I realize that it probably wont be shared by many, is that a lot of of "superfluous" lower level zones could stand to be revamped into level 45 to 50+ areas with corresponding content.
Not ALL of them, but definitely good number of them. Why weight content more strongly towards the high levels? Leveling up is easier then it's ever been. We blow through zones almost faster than we can run the content, especially in the lower levels. This has been true since the leveling curve was adjusted. Unless you delete or shelve your character at 50, or abandon them before that, they will spend more of their life at that level than they will at any other level range. Furthermore, you're more likely to find a team willing to SK up lower level players than 50's wanting to scale down and lose their power, given the choice. It's just more logical to play at level of the highest team member. People want to be able to use the abilities they know they have. Also, it's just my observation, but most people who aren't 50 are generally looking to get levels to they can get to 50. They tend to want to get those levels as fast and as easily as possible, and often that's from AE or DFB/DIB. Once at 50 you can slow down and enjoy the story. There's not as much of a rush to get anywhere, aside from the Incarnate system, which for the most part keeps the people grinding for it in trials. I find I pay attention to the actual content for the sake of enjoyment a lot more when I'm on my 50. I made it a point to do the new Night Ward content, not on the characters I had in range, but on my 50s. And while it wasn't torture being exempted down, I did notice and mind. So, yeah, if I had my druthers, I see a slight content shift in favor of the ~50 game. I'm never at a loss to get XP when I'm leveling alts, but I'm always looking for stuff for my 50's to do. . |
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
What the legacy zones need first and foremost is the legacy arcs to be updated to be a single zone-arc (a la Faultline, Hollows, Croatoa, etc...).
Take the missions that exist for Steel and Sky and make two zone-arcs that cover the 3 factions each specialize in. Get rid of the contacts that give out the same mission. Move the one-off missions to a repeatable contact or the police scanner. Dump the FedEx missions and no more than one street-hunt per faction. Once you do that, then you update the doors for the missions for logical progression through the zone. Then maybe update some of the zone-spawns. Leave the environmental artists alone to make new maps, not revamp old zones. IMO. |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Paragon City uses the slogan "the Birthplce of Tomorrow" - it needs more of the modern style buildings like the ones in Atlas Park, not less
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But some things don't fit the higher level game - Skyway City is very much a street level hero kind of zone, and the gangs and stories there there reflect it - a street gang zone in the 40-50 range doesn't flow with the way enemy groups are designed to present mroe global and cosmic threats as you level up.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Hey, it doesn't look any worse than the rest of CoV.
Back in the day I always made a point to stick around Sharkhead as long as humanly possible, running papers until they stopped giving them to me, so I could skip over Nerva entirely. |
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Originally Posted by Scythus
And how could you skip over Nerva Archipelago?
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Originally Posted by PunkRolex
Because it's mostly featureless water and historically it's been a huge PITA to go from the ferry entrance to the Red Dwarf level 45-50 mission portal guy on the opposite end of the zone?
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I genuinely like all the lower-level red-side zones. I'm much less keen on the 30+ areas until I remember what a huge PITA it is to get sent to talk to the Eden Security chief or run a Crimson mission blue-side. Sharkhead is actually one of my favorite zones in the game. It's pretty much the only zone where it's evident that people actually live and work, rather than just level up their skills as hostages and idiot bystanders. |
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Originally Posted by Scythus
If you can call being a convict indentured into slavery under an evil mining corporation "living and working."
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Being a street level hero has nothing to do with whether your level 1 or level 41. Batman is a street level hero. Daredevil is a street level hero. Both of them are on different power levels. Batman didn't leave Gotham City when he became an accomplished crime fighter, and frankly I think we could use some "street level" zones for level 50 heroes, as well as zones suited for other types of characters.
Not everyone is a Dr. Strange (Dark Astoria) or an Avenger (RWZ) or Spartacus (Cimerora). We need zones to cater to all kinds of level 50s; street level dark crusaders, super agent spy guys, scientific challengers of the fantastic, high flying steel men of tomorrow, cosmic ring powered surfing space knights, etc. Sure, new zones for them are preferable. But revamping existing zones, as with Dark Astoria, is more economic and easier to pull off. If there's a superfluous zone of that kind at a lower level range, why not re-purpose it for a higher level range? Hence why we revamp it with new stories and different enemy groups. At present the zone only has Clockwork, The Lost and Trolls AFAIK. With the exception of the Lost, there's nothing exactly precluding those gangs from being in the high levels. For what it's worth, I think Supa Trolls should definitely be something high level heroes are in on; they're basically an army of mini-Hulks, after all. There's also not a lot tying those gangs to Skyway to begin with. So bringing in new enemy groups wouldn't be much of a loss. . |
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
We really don't need paths delving into sci-fi and magic and all that. A natural themed hero can easily get themselves into a plot involving wizards without being a wizard themselves.
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But I totally agree about one part of Paragon being dark and gritty, and the other a thriving metropolis. Caters to Batman and Superman types. I wish they'd tweak the level ranges a bit and bust out new storylines to support this instead of adding more, non-Primal Earth zones that have nothing to do with anything. Kings Row > Skyway City > Independence Port > Boomtown Atlas Park > Steel Canyon > Talos Island > Founder's Falls Continue making hazard zones independent, self contained storylines and have Peregrine Island be a revamped combo of both gritty and bright as the 40-50 zone and you'd be set. |
Noooo. I want to see it updated, like with a Chinatown-esque area for the Tsoo stuff, etc, but not destroyed! It could look so nice with a bit of work. And it's kind of cool when it's not a hideous death trap.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Could some of the content use updating? Sure. Consolidating, no.
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