Is Skyway City ... superfluous?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-06-21 11:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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To you. I'm sure you read my post and didn't just stop at the first paragraph, so I won't repeat all the reasons why I liked the zone. You're free to disagree, of course, but please extend me at least the basic courtesy of not gloating about me losing a zone I loved irreversibly. Those absolute value judgements you're passing around are starting to get to me, to be honest, and I don't think I want to deal with them if you insist on persisting.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
There was nothing cool about Faultline
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It was the same dam wall. Everything about it was the same, except they made the cracks no longer impossibly hard to get out of, and they made it look like it was actually being rebuilt. Someone posted a video awhile back of the old Faultline, and it literally looks the same as the update except with more with scaffolds, updated buildings, and elevators to help folks out of the cracks. It's not even a matter of opinion, it is a cold hard fact the new Faultline is better than the old in every way.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
In fact, I'd really like to see the old Faultline as an Echo. That place was pointless, but it was ten times as visually impressive as new Faultline. I thought the deep cracks and the AMAZINGLY huge dam wall were some of the best sights in the game.
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I honestly believe you just want to be "That guy" who always has to disagree and be upset with everything everyone likes.
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I read the whole shebang Sam- you know me! =P|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
To you. I'm sure you read my post and didn't just stop at the first paragraph, so I won't repeat all the reasons why I liked the zone. You're free to disagree, of course, but please extend me at least the basic courtesy of not gloating about me losing a zone I loved irreversibly. Those absolute value judgements you're passing around are starting to get to me, to be honest, and I don't think I want to deal with them if you insist on persisting.
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I can usually get where you're coming from even if it's not my deal, but my grudge against Faultline is as deep and inescapable as one of its original chasms.
Now new Faultline I love- it gets the same point across as the original, minus all the awful nonsense.
But they could make it an echo, like DA.
I'd install the TP plaque in my base just so I could stand in front making rude emotes.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Interestingly, the new Faultline is actually a smaller zone than the original. The distance from the Skyway City entrance to the dam used to be 1.03 miles. It's now 0.82 miles.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
It was the same dam wall. Everything about it was the same, except they made the cracks no longer impossibly hard to get out of, and they made it look like it was actually being rebuilt. Someone posted a video awhile back of the old Faultline, and it literally looks the same as the update except with more with scaffolds, updated buildings, and elevators to help folks out of the cracks. It's not even a matter of opinion, it is a cold hard fact the new Faultline is better than the old in every way.
I honestly believe you just want to be "That guy" who always has to disagree and be upset with everything everyone likes. |
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obsolete|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
We're likely working off different definitions of "obsolete," then. I'm not a native speaker, so my first encounter with the word was a Dexter's Lab episode where Dexter built himself a computer which proceeded to take over his lab, proclaiming: "X is obsolete, and all obsolete matter must be destroyed." in relation to everything and anything Dexter had built, including Dexter himself and even Dee Dee, who eventually broke the robot by insisting "Well, if you sound like Dexter and act like Dexter then you muuust be Dexter! See you later Dexter!" causing the Robot to insist that "Dexter is obsolete and must be destroyed!" at which point his own drones destroyed him.
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Definition
ob·so·lete
[ òbssə lt ]
ADJECTIVE
1.
not used any more: no longer in use
2.
out-of-date: superseded by something newer, though possibly still in use
3.
biology undeveloped: describes a part or organ of an animal or plant that is undeveloped or no longer functional
[ Late 16th century. < Latin obsoletus, past participle of obsolescere (see obsolescent) ]
ob·so·lete·ly ADVERB
Word Key: Synonyms
See old-fashioned.
It's essentially growing pains. The game is expanding and changing and as it does so, earlier systems are growing out of date.
Hazard zones are superfluous. Their sole source of use, which was the team sized spawns, is easy enough to replicate in any city zone simply by use of the difficulty slider and any instanced mission. The slight exception is when mission doors are in them which.. isn't exactly a use since the doors can technically be put just about anywhere.
A lot of the redundancy built into the hero zones isn't really needed much anymore either. And the low levels skip by so fast that single arcs push you through levels at a quick pace. It's all too easy to do the Atlas Park arcs and shoot past King's Row for instance. Skyway isn't sooo bad, since a lot of the early push drops you off right around it's range but I'll agree with someone that posted earlier that Steel has become much more of a hub between the midnighter arc, the new arcs, Posi, and the various amenities offered.
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I don't really have a problem with the new Faultline. It's a cool zone with a very good story. But I can't agree that it gets the same point across. I guess if you consider "the point" to be massive destruction, that I could see, but we have a number of zones that do that on a much larger scale - Boomtown, Eden, and now Siren's Call. What the old Faultline was to me, however, was "big." Big enough to challenge the draw distance looking straight down. Big enough for me to drop half a mile down a sheer dam wall. Big enough to stand at the foot of the thing, look straight up and marvel at it.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Now new Faultline I love- it gets the same point across as the original, minus all the awful nonsense.
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I like big things and I cannot lie. And honestly, since CoV, we've been running on an economy of size. Even Recluse's Tower, the one that's supposed to be big and huge and imposing, is still pretty small. It's tall, sure, but even then not very, and it's so skinny! Honestly, think about it and tell me what the biggest single thing in the game is in your opinion, not counting the Shadow Shard. If you defaulted to the Terra Volta Reactor Complex cooling towers, then I agree with you, but besides that? Honestly, what else big is there that we have left?
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Originally Posted by Agent White
A lot of the redundancy built into the hero zones isn't really needed much anymore either. And the low levels skip by so fast that single arcs push you through levels at a quick pace. It's all too easy to do the Atlas Park arcs and shoot past King's Row for instance. Skyway isn't sooo bad, since a lot of the early push drops you off right around it's range but I'll agree with someone that posted earlier that Steel has become much more of a hub between the midnighter arc, the new arcs, Posi, and the various amenities offered.
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And I don't agree that the "low levels" fly by so fast. They do if you just nosedive into a hydra head, but for me, I tend to take a couple of days to get to 10, about a week to get to 20. And I WANT diverse content in that level range or else it just gets heedlessly boring.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You could always buy a sports car or a yacht to make yourself feel better.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't really have a problem with the new Faultline. It's a cool zone with a very good story. But I can't agree that it gets the same point across. I guess if you consider "the point" to be massive destruction, that I could see, but we have a number of zones that do that on a much larger scale - Boomtown, Eden, and now Siren's Call. What the old Faultline was to me, however, was "big." Big enough to challenge the draw distance looking straight down. Big enough for me to drop half a mile down a sheer dam wall. Big enough to stand at the foot of the thing, look straight up and marvel at it.
I like big things and I cannot lie. And honestly, since CoV, we've been running on an economy of size. Even Recluse's Tower, the one that's supposed to be big and huge and imposing, is still pretty small. It's tall, sure, but even then not very, and it's so skinny! Honestly, think about it and tell me what the biggest single thing in the game is in your opinion, not counting the Shadow Shard. If you defaulted to the Terra Volta Reactor Complex cooling towers, then I agree with you, but besides that? Honestly, what else big is there that we have left? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I dunno, Recluse's tower is big enough. I already get slightly dizzy whenever I accidentally fall off that thing.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I like big things and I cannot lie. And honestly, since CoV, we've been running on an economy of size. Even Recluse's Tower, the one that's supposed to be big and huge and imposing, is still pretty small. It's tall, sure, but even then not very, and it's so skinny! Honestly, think about it and tell me what the biggest single thing in the game is in your opinion, not counting the Shadow Shard. If you defaulted to the Terra Volta Reactor Complex cooling towers, then I agree with you, but besides that? Honestly, what else big is there that we have left?
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Good for you. But at this point you should really understand you're an outlier Sam, on most things you spam about.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I disagree with this, and completely. Yes, you could run Atlas Park and shoot past Kings Row. How many times would you want to do that? How many times in a row can you run the same series of missions, again and again, before you want something new? Because for me, that was "around three times." Ever since then, I've been skipping Atlas Park by streethunting around the zone and then going to Kings Row or the Hollows. Because at least there, I can run content I didn't run the previous time. I have multiple paths that I can alternate between. It's not always the same thing. And I don't agree that the "low levels" fly by so fast. They do if you just nosedive into a hydra head, but for me, I tend to take a couple of days to get to 10, about a week to get to 20. And I WANT diverse content in that level range or else it just gets heedlessly boring. |
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Underutilized =/= superfluous, outliers =/= irrelevant, and spam =/= whoever disagrees with you.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Good for you. But at this point you should really understand you're an outlier Sam, on most things you spam about.
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Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I'm starting to feel like this game will shortly be nothing but DfB and AE.
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You haven't been to an AE building lately have you?
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Originally Posted by Anomynous
Underutilized =/= superfluous, outliers =/= irrelevant, and spam =/= whoever disagrees with you.
Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I'm starting to feel like this game will shortly be nothing but DfB and AE. |
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Not since I left because everyone was doing nothing but AE farms. Where do the cool kids hang out nowadays?
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Originally Posted by Scythus
You haven't been to an AE building lately have you?
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DFB. AE's a ghost town.
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Originally Posted by Anomynous
Not since I left because everyone was doing nothing but AE farms. Where do the cool kids hang out nowadays?
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Ah. So the whole game is superfluous then... |
Originally Posted by Scythus
DFB. AE's a ghost town.
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I have zero trouble finding teams that do things that aren't DFB.|
Originally Posted by Anomynous
Ah. So the whole game is superfluous then...
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So nah.
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Sarcasting disregard noted and appreciated. Can I another?|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Good for you. But at this point you should really understand you're an outlier Sam, on most things you spam about.
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You're arguing that too much content is a bad thing and that giving people options is inferior to not giving them options. Perhaps not directly, considering I'm arguing for more options and you're essentially dismissing me as having any place in holding an opinion, you're heavily implying it.
Yes, I'm aware that those aren't options that everyone likes. What cannot be disputed, however, is that they are still options which exist, and as long as they exist, I refuse to be badmouthed for wanting to make use of them. As long as they exist, I see no possible rational argument to be made for removing them outright. At the very least not when we're talking about zones with a lower limit smaller than 15 - the Ouroboros entry point.
I realise that it's easy to shoot for the low-hanging fruit and dismiss me as a person who matters to begin with instead of addressing my argument, but you also have to realise that this does absolutely nothing to change my mind. In case you haven't noticed, my opinion is immune from unreasoned pressure and only ever alters from actual reasoned arguments. Yes, I'm sure you could insist that I'll never listen to reason. That's OK, I've heard it before. But the fact of the matter is that "reason" is what I want to discuss. Who has the right to hold what opinion and make what requests is simply not interesting.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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How is it hard to navigate?
Surely I'm not the only person that rolls a new character and heads to fbz for a 10,000 inf Raptor Pack! Cheap! 2 hours !
In the past 6 months, all my characters are getting super speed and combat jump and that raptor pack. So far, I've only needed just that one pack to last me until level 50 and beyond.
/bind <key> powexecname Raptor Pack
Just zip along with SS --see a large wall - no detours - press the bind key and fly above it and then press the key again to turn it off and keep zipping along.
With the new tunnel system taking you straight to fbz from atlas, (or redside if villain) it makes it even easier.
As for the content in that zone, aside from SSA 1.1, well, I can agree with you there. I think DFBs have made most of the content 1-15 pretty much obsolete. Heck, some stay in dfb until 22, when they can get SOs, and I guess I don't blame them too much. But, that's a topic that has already been hashed out with varying opinions.
However, don't forget the Synapse TF - where'd Synapse hang out if not there?
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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Yes indeed.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
It's essentially growing pains. The game is expanding and changing and as it does so, earlier systems are growing out of date.
Hazard zones are superfluous. Their sole source of use, which was the team sized spawns, is easy enough to replicate in any city zone simply by use of the difficulty slider and any instanced mission. The slight exception is when mission doors are in them which.. isn't exactly a use since the doors can technically be put just about anywhere. A lot of the redundancy built into the hero zones isn't really needed much anymore either. And the low levels skip by so fast that single arcs push you through levels at a quick pace. It's all too easy to do the Atlas Park arcs and shoot past King's Row for instance. Skyway isn't sooo bad, since a lot of the early push drops you off right around it's range but I'll agree with someone that posted earlier that Steel has become much more of a hub between the midnighter arc, the new arcs, Posi, and the various amenities offered. |
One thing I continually struggle to keep in mind is that the game is 8 years old.
Now, 8 years is a decent chunk of time, but in the "real world" you can still keep it in focus when you're my age- 8 years ago I was basically doing the same things and hanging around with the same people I am now.
In game terms, 8 years is an INSANE span of time. Game time might not be as accelerated as internet time, but it's in the ballpark. I mean, I lapsed for a year and when I came back I barely recognized the place.
Legacy content here is like if you got in a time machine and went back to the 1800's. Things would be vaguely familiar, but very little of it would be applicable to your life in the future.
We're all living in the future now, but with all these locations and systems that carbon date to the 1800's. I understand that some folks like those places and systems, but chances are they're going to change fairly drastically as the devs get around to it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Well, that's what Ouroboros is for. The problem with it RIGHT NOW is that it has all of two zones - one with no content in it but street-hunting and one which ends ten levels before a character can access Ouro to begin with.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
We're all living in the future now, but with all these locations and systems that carbon date to the 1800's. I understand that some folks like those places and systems, but chances are they're going to change fairly drastically as the devs get around to it.
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If, for instance, the developers decided to retire Independence Port and all of the old 20-30 contacts, then I'd gladly go into the Echo of Independence Port as soon as I hit 20 and run contact missions there. Provided I don't have to actually Flashback to them, of course. Just leave the contact in there active as they are now.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, true... I love the old Dark Astoria, was all kinds of frustrated by hearing about it being replaced, finally snuck into the new DA with a mid-20's character to get a sneak preview of it (stealth powers and lots and lots of running were involved!)... and the visuals, the ambient sounds, all of it is just jaw-droppingly eerie, beautiful and atmospheric. As long as the foggy old town's still in Ouroboros, it's definitely a trade up. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
My favorite zone in the game was always Dark Astoria.
Discovering it had been re-made filled me with trepidation, which ended up being baseless- the "new" DA is true to the spirit of the original AND has content besides street sweeping team sized spawns. And "old" DA is available via Oro, should my fire blaster wish to relive his glory days of bombing spawns in Mot Cemetery. So, I wouldn't get too worried. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
In fact, I'd really like to see the old Faultline as an Echo. That place was pointless, but it was ten times as visually impressive as new Faultline. I thought the deep cracks and the AMAZINGLY huge dam wall were some of the best sights in the game.
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There's one minor change I'd like to see to the Echo system, though. First, an NPC in Ouroboros should really explain what it is: just have them standing beside the crystal and say something like "Paragon City has changed quite a bit over the years. This pillar contains the echoes of city zones that are now part of the past." Then, when you arrive in the zone, a short pop-up message should give the context of that zone, like "Before the reconstruction of Overbrook began, Faultline was a dangerous wasteland filled with jagged canyons and wrecked skyscrapers."
"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."
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Throw in another change and I'm game: Let the NPCs in those zones work like regular contacts, as opposed to contacts you have to flashback to. Have them only ever spawn missions within the Echo and put them in my contact list along with all the others. Make the Echo play like a real zone, and I will never complain again.|
Originally Posted by Sparkly Soldier
There's one minor change I'd like to see to the Echo system, though. First, an NPC in Ouroboros should really explain what it is: just have them standing beside the crystal and say something like "Paragon City has changed quite a bit over the years. This pillar contains the echoes of city zones that are now part of the past." Then, when you arrive in the zone, a short pop-up message should give the context of that zone, like "Before the reconstruction of Overbrook began, Faultline was a dangerous wasteland filled with jagged canyons and wrecked skyscrapers."
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And, really, Ouroboros is the perfect excuse for this. They're the hub between an infinite number of divergent timelines, trying to sort through the possibilities and find the one which doesn't end with us all dead. Anything we "lose" can just end up there as just another alternate timeline charted and catalogued before the ever-shfting time-stream changes history once more.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It was an awful, terribly designed zone.
It doesn't evoke a single nostalgic memory for me- it was never anything but a huge PITA with no redeeming features.
And I'm a guy who has fond memories of traipsing through the Perez Park maze looking for the hidden cave door to the Fortune Teller mission.
The Shadow Shard at least had AWESOMENESS to wash down its ridiculous navigational impositions with.
There was nothing cool about Faultline- good riddance to it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone