What can you do with a problem like a Blaster?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Yeppers.
OK... looked through those Hybrid thingies... got to admit that control tree does look interesting. I gazed at it before and dismissed it because it just looked like another damage tree (with hold conditions) didn't notice the ability to get mez.

I'd love such a thing on Starsman, always thought tankers should be Melee controllers more than damage dealers. Shame the thing can only be used up to 50% of the time... I would love such a trait to be permanent trait of my tanker... anyways, this a blaster thread.

/end derail


 

Posted

Well what to do with them is pretty obvious. Give them the damage they gave up most other things to get. That said they are the most flexible AT in the game. With a blaster you have the most choices on how you want to do things, and the means to achieve them.

I don't see the legitimacy of people saying the AT is hopeless when it can solo arch villains and giant monsters. The fact that blasters can't do that while on autopilot is part of their charm. Not everyone wants to play something where you can roll your face across the keyboard and still beat the enemies.


What concerns me more is what not to do with them.

1. What not to do, is make snipes the balancing point for sets that have them. I have never chosen a set because it had or didn't have a snipe, and I don't think anyone who did wants to be forced into taking snipes because they are now signature powers.

2. What not to do, take away anything from the flexibility of blasters. After looking at what was done to tankers, stalkers and dominators, I get the impression the devs fear flexibility.

3. What not to do, give the AT more goofy complicated mechanics. These things are fine in powersets where the people who like them can pick them and those that don't can stay away from them. We don't need a ring combo system for blasters. Part of the joy of the AT is that you can just blast. It is bad enough you have to use Build Up and Aim before you start blasting now. If a set does have that kind of mechanic it should be top tier in performance as compensation for the extra effort.

Blasters would be far better off left alone, if the "fix" is to give them one power they must use or some crazy system that got put in because someone fell in love with their own idea.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
2. What not to do, take away anything from the flexibility of blasters. After looking at what was done to tankers, stalkers and dominators, I get the impression the devs fear flexibility.
What.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
What.
There's a New Dawn coming?
(Seriously some posts make my head hurt trying to figure out what game the poster was actually playing. Most likely candidate is cross-bleed from the Earth 2 version of the CoH forums.)


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

I am honestly baffled by the posts that talk about "blasters are for advanced players" and "Blaster should be left as they are so I can have an archetype that's harder to succeed with"

First of all, intended or not, that just smacks of elitism. Secondly, parity is important. No one is saying make it "faceroll". But since the devs are not likely to push Blaster damage up to where it "should" be compared to their squishyness, then it is important to shore them up in areas they are lacking. No one wants them to become indestructible ranged attackers, but people do want them to be competitive with other archetypes. It's a flat out fact that currently they are not.

You know that song "Anything you can do I can do better!"? Yea... that's all the other archetypes singing to Blasters. Sure mid's will show you some nice numbers with a billion inf build and /mental manipulation but in actual game play ANY other archetype is going to have an easier time in whatever scenario you can come up with compared to a blaster specifically because they have more tools to work with.

Blasters have ONE power set instead of TWO like everyone else... they have "A Damage Power Set". Sure it has twice as many powers as any one of the two power sets that the other AT's get, and sometimes it has a few odd picks that are pretty decent, but on the whole it's just different ways of dealing damage and frankly the game has evolved beyond just how big your dps epeen is.

A giant epeen doesn't do much good if it doesn't have the stamina to perform :P And that's basically where Blasters are right now... waving around their big sticks and promptly getting deflated by mobs who poor Blasty just couldn't keep up with. Meanwhile Tanky, Trolly, Fendy, Domy, Scrappy, Bruty, Cory, Stalky, Masty, the Kheldy twins and the Recluse twins have all been popping viagra and going strong for years now. They may not have as big epeens but their performance is FAR more impressive than poor Blasty's.


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
I am honestly baffled by the posts that talk about "blasters are for advanced players" and "Blaster should be left as they are so I can have an archetype that's harder to succeed with"
Please turn that around. "There should be no AT that is more challenging than the easiest and anyone who seeks more challenge from the game is an elitist"

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You know that song "Anything you can do I can do better!"? Yea... that's all the other archetypes singing to Blasters. Sure mid's will show you some nice numbers with a billion inf build and /mental manipulation but in actual game play ANY other archetype is going to have an easier time in whatever scenario you can come up with compared to a blaster specifically because they have more tools to work with.
Easier, not better, done is done in this game.

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Blasters have ONE power set instead of TWO like everyone else... they have "A Damage Power Set". Sure it has twice as many powers as any one of the two power sets that the other AT's get, and sometimes it has a few odd picks that are pretty decent, but on the whole it's just different ways of dealing damage and frankly the game has evolved beyond just how big your dps epeen is.
Because blasters have those powersets they can have a toon that works the way the blaster wants it to. They don't have to do the hokey pokey like dominators. If you play a blaster you can build so you play well at range, melee or well at both.

I find that very enjoyable.

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A giant epeen doesn't do much good if it doesn't have the stamina to perform :P And that's basically where Blasters are right now... waving around their big sticks and promptly getting deflated by mobs who poor Blasty just couldn't keep up with. Meanwhile Tanky, Trolly, Fendy, Domy, Scrappy, Bruty, Cory, Stalky, Masty, the Kheldy twins and the Recluse twins have all been popping viagra and going strong for years now. They may not have as big epeens but their performance is FAR more impressive than poor Blasty's.
I run Carnie, and Malta missions at +4x8 on my blasters. Its far more involving and exciting than running the same on Tanks and Brutes.


 

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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
I run Carnie, and Malta missions at +4x8 on my blasters. Its farm more involving and exciting than running the same on Tanks and Brutes.
You're just too awesome for this game. This game isn't designed or balanced around your skill level. You'll have to accept the fact that when this game is balanced, it will be balanced for a difficulty level vastly under the one you think is appropriate. Most players can't run on +4x8 on any archetype with any powersets. And its not just a question of lack of experience. I've been killed on my soft-capped SR in +4x8 Carnie missions in a single instant with no chance to react at all, just due to the fact that an unlucky set of random rolls means a group of +4 Master Illusionists can kill me in a single volley.

I don't know how you prevent that sort of thing from happening on blasters that are far squishier, but whatever it is, its something beyond my understanding of physics.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
You're just too awesome for this game. This game isn't designed or balanced around your skill level. You'll have to accept the fact that when this game is balanced, it will be balanced for a difficulty level vastly under the one you think is appropriate. Most players can't run on +4x8 on any archetype with any powersets. And its not just a question of lack of experience. I've been killed on my soft-capped SR in +4x8 Carnie missions in a single instant with no chance to react at all, just due to the fact that an unlucky set of random rolls means a group of +4 Master Illusionists can kill me in a single volley.

I don't know how you prevent that sort of thing from happening on blasters that are far squishier, but whatever it is, its something beyond my understanding of physics.
Anything can be killed by an unlucky combination of random rolls. I have no idea how you stop that from happening on any AT.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
I run Carnie, and Malta missions at +4x8 on my blasters. Its far more involving and exciting than running the same on Tanks and Brutes.
That sounds epic! Do you have a vid or demo record? Honest question, I love watching such achievements.


 

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Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
That sounds epic! Do you have a vid or demo record? Honest question, I love watching such achievements.
How do you do that ?


 

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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
That said they are the most flexible AT in the game. With a blaster you have the most choices on how you want to do things, and the means to achieve them.
This mentality has always confused me. I've seen it pop up in several threads, but never backed up. What can a Blaster do that cannot explicitly be done by another AT?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
I am honestly baffled by the posts that talk about "blasters are for advanced players" and "Blaster should be left as they are so I can have an archetype that's harder to succeed with"

First of all, intended or not, that just smacks of elitism. Secondly, parity is important. No one is saying make it "faceroll". But since the devs are not likely to push Blaster damage up to where it "should" be compared to their squishyness, then it is important to shore them up in areas they are lacking. No one wants them to become indestructible ranged attackers, but people do want them to be competitive with other archetypes. It's a flat out fact that currently they are not.

You know that song "Anything you can do I can do better!"? Yea... that's all the other archetypes singing to Blasters. Sure mid's will show you some nice numbers with a billion inf build and /mental manipulation but in actual game play ANY other archetype is going to have an easier time in whatever scenario you can come up with compared to a blaster specifically because they have more tools to work with.

Blasters have ONE power set instead of TWO like everyone else... they have "A Damage Power Set". Sure it has twice as many powers as any one of the two power sets that the other AT's get, and sometimes it has a few odd picks that are pretty decent, but on the whole it's just different ways of dealing damage and frankly the game has evolved beyond just how big your dps epeen is.

A giant epeen doesn't do much good if it doesn't have the stamina to perform :P And that's basically where Blasters are right now... waving around their big sticks and promptly getting deflated by mobs who poor Blasty just couldn't keep up with. Meanwhile Tanky, Trolly, Fendy, Domy, Scrappy, Bruty, Cory, Stalky, Masty, the Kheldy twins and the Recluse twins have all been popping viagra and going strong for years now. They may not have as big epeens but their performance is FAR more impressive than poor Blasty's.
I am completely with you there, it totally baffles me too. And that's all the people against changes to Blasters keep throwing out. And as I said in my last post, if playing blasters, an out of the box AT, is the only way they can get a challenge in this game, then that sound very broken to me. Blasters should play, to the same level as all other out of the box AT's at all difficulties.

If ANY AT's should be harder to master and harder to play or give more of a challenge, it should be the EAT's, the ones, that in the past, you had to wait till you had already got a toon to 50, but now 20 or buy from the store, to play. Khelds and SoA's should be the harder toons to plays, by virtue of being a lot more limited in their posible combinations. After all, the design principle behind them seems, to me at least, to be, "here is a character that only has these powers and no others. Lets see if you can do as well with them" Yes, blasters have fewer choices in powers than many other AT's, in joint last place with Dom's for secondaries, and little thematic pairings, but they still have far more choice that the EAT's.

And if any of the basic AT's should be hard mode, it should be those the devs have already deemed to be too advanced for newbie freems to play, unless the have thrown some money at the game, MM's and controllers. No, I don't think blasters are horribly broken and unplayable, but then, I didn't think stalkers were either, but I love playing stalkers almost as much as my blasters, and even more so since the recent buffs, even if the change in play style has made my main stalker much more of an end hog than she used to be. That is the sort of buff Blasters need. Not the complete game changing re-design that some poeple have asked for, but just something to make them better at what they do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Originally Posted by Grendar View Post
This mentality has always confused me. I've seen it pop up in several threads, but never backed up. What can a Blaster do that cannot explicitly be done by another AT?
Maybe it's because they are almost entirely reliant on inspirations and temporary powers?


I really should do something about this signature.

 

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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Maybe it's because they are almost entirely reliant on inspirations and temporary powers?
seems to be the argument some of them use. The whole "Try using all these other things, (isps, IO's, Pools, Temps, Incarnates, etc) that all the other AT's get access to but don't need to use as much" argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
That said they are the most flexible AT in the game. With a blaster you have the most choices on how you want to do things, and the means to achieve them.
The most choices? Can you explain that, please?

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The fact that blasters can't do that while on autopilot is part of their charm. Not everyone wants to play something where you can roll your face across the keyboard and still beat the enemies.
And absolutely no one is arguing that blasters should be face-rolling their way to glory. That position doesn't exist anywhere but inside your head. There is a wide spectrum between "unplayable" and "face roll".

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1. What not to do, is make snipes the balancing point for sets that have them. I have never chosen a set because it had or didn't have a snipe, and I don't think anyone who did wants to be forced into taking snipes because they are now signature powers.
No one can force you to take any power. If you don't want a power, you don't take it. It really is that simple. But the fact remains that Snipe powers are in a sad state of affairs, ATM. There is a lot of room to improve them before you reach "must have" status.

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2. What not to do, take away anything from the flexibility of blasters. After looking at what was done to tankers, stalkers and dominators, I get the impression the devs fear flexibility.
lol???

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3. What not to do, give the AT more goofy complicated mechanics. These things are fine in powersets where the people who like them can pick them and those that don't can stay away from them. We don't need a ring combo system for blasters. Part of the joy of the AT is that you can just blast. It is bad enough you have to use Build Up and Aim before you start blasting now. If a set does have that kind of mechanic it should be top tier in performance as compensation for the extra effort.
You know, my Time/Nrg Defender can just blast, too. I can forgo laying down debuffs if I want, and just blast away. I do that quite a bit when I'm playing solo, actually. When I do, it means that it takes three attacks to kill an even-con minion instead of two. My Mind/Dark dominator can do that too. It's not without some risk, as you know, but sometimes it is fun. However the main difference between those two, and Blasters, is that they have other options at their disposal. Wait, what was it you were saying about Blasters and flexibility?



"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
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Posted

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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
Please turn that around. "There should be no AT that is more challenging than the easiest and anyone who seeks more challenge from the game is an elitist"
First of all turning my statement around like that doesn't actually make much sense. Secondly, I have no problem with there being challenge in the game. I do however think there's a problem when only ONE archetype has it to such an extreme compared to the rest. Blasters need parity... THEN we can see about making things more challenging for EVERYONE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
Easier, not better, done is done in this game.
Maybe it's just a matter of perspective. You might be able to finish a mission but you wont do it as safe as another AT and in many cases not as fast either regardless of how many attacks you have. And seriously how many attacks does ANY AT really need? 3 to 4 single target for a full chain (2 in Arcanville's Blaster's case!)? 2 to 3 aoes? Doesn't it seem wasteful to have that glut of extra attacks in both primary and secondary? Don't the melee attacks seem a bit awkward for an AT that is supposed to be ranged and is quite fragile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
Because blasters have those powersets they can have a toon that works the way the blaster wants it to. They don't have to do the hokey pokey like dominators. If you play a blaster you can build so you play well at range, melee or well at both.
You mean the way YOU want it to. And no one is saying or even expecting the devs to rip everything out of the Blaster secondaries and give them toggle shields and mez protection. With that said however, Dominators can typically build for melee OR ranged OR both if they want to AND they have a control primary to boot! I'm sorry but to my point of view that's clearly better than "melee or ranged or both" with NOTHING but insps, pools and temp powers to back you up. Domy has all those too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
I find that very enjoyable.
And you somehow think a few buffs here and there would lessen your enjoyment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel View Post
I run Carnie, and Malta missions at +4x8 on my blasters. Its far more involving and exciting than running the same on Tanks and Brutes.
Melee types are traditionally the wade in and mess stuff up guys. They have survival directly packaged into them. But what about Defenders? Controllers? Everyone else? They ALL have better tools to deal with that mission's difficulty than you do. Sure you may succeed in clearing that mission but The rest of the pack (equally built for survival and IO'd out and using insps/pools/temps) are going to not only do it easier than you and safer than you... they are probably going to do it faster than you as well. And since the devs aren't likely to push your Blaster damage up to the point where you could do it faster than them even though they are safer, then it's time to accept that the only way to achieve parity is to really look at where the Blaster deficiencies lie and do something about them.


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30

 

Posted

Why are we even comparing a squishy class to a tank class? I don't think that at any point we should be making direct comparisons to SoAs, Tankers, Brutes, Stalkers, Scrappers or Master Minds; just doesn't make sense to me.

I can see comparing it to Doms (which is almost a mirror image; outside of Control); Corrs and Fenders (which lend themselves to similar offensive styles) and Khelds (which would seem to be the 'next step' for Blasters/Doms).


I just don't see the insistence on homogenizing (in general); if the trend continues we'll only have four classes Brute, Controller, Stalker and Corr (plus the EATs). And whether you realize it or not, when you use all these other ATs as a basis of specific comparisons (instead of focusing on the AT at hand of basing any improvement off its own playstyle) that's precisely what you're moving toward.


If I'm rolling a Blaster, its because I have an idea of what I'm getting into; pros and cons. If I didn't want to deal with that playstyle then I wouldn't be rolling him up in the first place; this coming from a person who's just recently been putting time into Blaster toons. If I'm seeking improvements to what's supposed to be a 'glass cannon'; it would be to make the cannon hit harder, faster, longer. If I'm to make an effort to add anything outside of the play philosophy; I would do it in such a manner that it wouldn't alter the playstyle to where I could go with another choice and not notice much of a difference.

********************************************

Altering a previous suggestion:

Blaster ranged attacks do damage based on range from caster at the time of attack initiation (far, mid, close and point blank); the closer the target is, the more damage an attack does - This allows the Blaster to have a bit more say on their 'risk (proximity) vs reward (bonus damage)'.

*In addition*, the proximity could trigger a 'chance to' effect (generic effect: far = none, mid = repel+fear, close = KD+fear, point blank = KB+fear; otherwise, it could be based on the powerset itself)

*Point Blank damage would also include a chance for small radius AoE damage around the target


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Altering a previous suggestion:

Blaster ranged attacks do damage based on range from caster at the time of attack initiation (far, mid, close and point blank); the closer the target is, the more damage an attack does - This allows the Blaster to have a bit more say on their 'risk (proximity) vs reward (bonus damage)'.

*In addition*, the proximity could trigger a 'chance to' effect (generic effect: far = none, mid = repel+fear, close = KD+fear, point blank = KB+fear; otherwise, it could be based on the powerset itself)

*Point Blank damage would also include a chance for small radius AoE damage around the target
Don't blasters already have this capability to some extent? And by that I mean... blaster melee attacks/PBAOES far outstrip their ranged attacks in damage. They can already do what you're saying and I think that was originally their intent. It just doesn't work out as well as you might think and the current state of blasters is the prime example.


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
Don't blasters already have this capability to some extent? And by that I mean... blaster melee attacks/PBAOES far outstrip their ranged attacks in damage. They can already do what you're saying and I think that was originally their intent. It just doesn't work out as well as you might think and the current state of blasters is the prime example.
I could've sworn I've seen arguments against melee attacks in this thread for various reasons including 'poor damage'.

But that aside, the ranged attack chain takes precedence and outnumbers melee representation (by at least 3 to 1) for Blasters.

What I'm suggesting acknowledges that and allows the chain to surpass melee involvement if the player so chooses; taking full command of close ranged and melee ranged damage if they choose otherwise (all without having to rely on their melee abilities).

It goes beyond your 'strictly' damage interpretation on the suggest[ion] with the addition of the 'chance to' effects (mitigation without sacrifice of playstyle).

It also allows for supplanting the Secondary Set's melee powers for other abilities (if that's what making Blasters have more parity comes down to.

Finally, it's generically thematic for a class that specializes in ranged damage.


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
I could've sworn I've seen arguments against melee attacks in this thread for various reasons including 'poor damage'.

But that aside, the ranged attack chain takes precedence and outnumbers melee representation (by at least 3 to 1) for Blasters.

What I'm suggesting acknowledges that and allows the chain to surpass melee involvement if the player so chooses; taking full command of close ranged and melee ranged damage if they choose otherwise (all without having to rely on their melee abilities).

It goes beyond your 'strictly' damage interpretation on the suggesting with the addition of the 'chance to' effects (mitigation without sacrifice of playstyle).

It also allows for supplanting the Secondary Set's melee powers for other abilities (if that's what making Blasters have more parity comes down to.

Finally, it's generically thematic for a class that specializes in ranged damage.
I'd also like to note that for as many high damage melee powers a Blaster Secondary has; their tends to be an equal number of high damage ranged powers in a Blaster Primary (generally speaking).


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Why are we even comparing a squishy class to a tank class? I don't think that at any point we should be making direct comparisons to SoAs, Tankers, Brutes, Stalkers, Scrappers or Master Minds; just doesn't make sense to me.

I can see comparing it to Doms (which is almost a mirror image; outside of Control); Corrs and Fenders (which lend themselves to similar offensive styles) and Khelds (which would seem to be the 'next step' for Blasters/Doms).
So, basicly, you are saying that to judge the perfomance of a DPS toon, we shouldn't judge it by comparing it to the other DPS classes, but only to the support classes? Somehow that doesn't sound right to me. Yes, blasters are supposed to be squishie, but that is also supposed to be the price for their superior damage output, which they are far from having. and if the significant buffs to their DPS is out the window, as has been hinted at, then surely it falls to improving thier survivability, somehow, to make up for that lack of superior DPS that that are supposed to have but don't?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
I just don't see the insistence on homogenizing (in general); if the trend continues we'll only have four classes Brute, Controller, Stalker and Corr (plus the EATs). And whether you realize it or not, when you use all these other ATs as a basis of specific comparisons (instead of focusing on the AT at hand of basing any improvement off its own playstyle) that's precisely what you're moving toward.
No-one is asking for that. No-one is saying turn blasters into Doms/corrs/brutes with range or anything of the sort.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
If I'm rolling a Blaster, its because I have an idea of what I'm getting into; pros and cons. If I didn't want to deal with that playstyle then I wouldn't be rolling him up in the first place; this coming from a person who's just recently been putting time into Blaster toons. If I'm seeking improvements to what's supposed to be a 'glass cannon'; it would be to make the cannon hit harder, faster, longer. If I'm to make an effort to add anything outside of the play philosophy; I would do it in such a manner that it wouldn't alter the playstyle to where I could go with another choice and not notice much of a difference.
Yes, that would be very nice, but from the devs own comments in the past, we are unlikely to see the sort of changes needed to bring blasters up to that level through buffs to damage recharge or end cost alone. which is kinda the point of this thread. exploring whatelse can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Altering a previous suggestion:

Blaster ranged attacks do damage based on range from caster at the time of attack initiation (far, mid, close and point blank); the closer the target is, the more damage an attack does - This allows the Blaster to have a bit more say on their 'risk (proximity) vs reward (bonus damage)'.

*In addition*, the proximity could trigger a 'chance to' effect (generic effect: far = none, mid = repel+fear, close = KD+fear, point blank = KB+fear; otherwise, it could be based on the powerset itself)

*Point Blank damage would also include a chance for small radius AoE damage around the target
If i am understanding you correctly, that is a very interesting idea. Each attack having a scaling damage based on didtance to the target. so shot to closer targets deal more than shots to further away targets. Kind of how you would see in real life. Bullets, for example, losing velocity the further it travels thus giving less penetration, or fire cooling the longer is thrown, wave forms decaying the further they travel etc. makes perfect sence. if that is posible I cannot say, but I do like it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
I could've sworn I've seen arguments against melee attacks in this thread for various reasons including 'poor damage'.

But that aside, the ranged attack chain takes precedence and outnumbers melee representation (by at least 3 to 1) for Blasters.

What I'm suggesting acknowledges that and allows the chain to surpass melee involvement if the player so chooses; taking full command of close ranged and melee ranged damage if they choose otherwise (all without having to rely on their melee abilities).

It goes beyond your 'strictly' damage interpretation on the suggest[ion] with the addition of the 'chance to' effects (mitigation without sacrifice of playstyle).

It also allows for supplanting the Secondary Set's melee powers for other abilities (if that's what making Blasters have more parity comes down to.

Finally, it's generically thematic for a class that specializes in ranged damage.
I can see your idea working well... IF they'd replace the melee powers. Unfortunately I just don't believe that is on the table. I agree with you that your idea (if melee powers replaced with more utility/survival) would be the ideal.

As for the ranged vs melee damage... in virtually every case a melee attack or melee aoe of a similar scale is going to do more damage than an equivalent ranged attack or ranged aoe. This is just a fact. Even if both powers say "High" damage the melee will almost always be higher damage.

What I am hoping we see (beyond snipes being made good and all nukes going crashless) is either a mechanic like Arcanaville has been pushing for attacks to have a sort of splash fear/immob effect or at the very least to see some additional tweakage to secondary powers to add proactive survival effects to some of the existing powers. Make them useful beyond just another damage generator... don't be so terrified of letting Blasters have higher mag controls (dark pit and lightning clap for example could be mag 3 and wouldn't be stepping on controller's toes in any real way).

Examples of some possible ideas for Blasters that don't require replacing powers with something totally different:

Energy manip's Stun and Devices Taser could have their range increased significantly to give those sets more single target control without requiring them to get so close to use it.

Boost Range from energy manip could be renamed and have an additional benefit besides just a range increase... maybe it could work as a break free effect?

Targeting Drone could provide some minor mez protection (like mag 2 to stuns or something)

Touch of fear could be made more like Scare from mental manip (ranged fear)

Chilling embrace could have some minor mez protection (like mag 2 vs hold and maybe some recharge debuff resistance)

None of the mez prot ideas give comprehensive mez protection on a large scale to blasters and I think I am being very conservative with them. None of the mez suggestions make them too controllery either. It's ideas like these I think are reasonable to expect to see if and when the time comes that Blasters see some changes.


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
As for the ranged vs melee damage... in virtually every case a melee attack or melee aoe of a similar scale is going to do more damage than an equivalent ranged attack or ranged aoe. This is just a fact. Even if both powers say "High" damage the melee will almost always be higher damage.
Ummmm, you might want to do your maths again. If a one ranged and one melee power on a blaster have the exact same base damage the range power will infact do the higher damage due to their range modifier being higher then their melee modifier. 1.125 for range and 1.0 for melee.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by St_Angelius View Post
Ummmm, you might want to do your maths again. If a one ranged and one melee power on a blaster have the exact same base damage the range power will infact do the higher damage due to their range modifier being higher then their melee modifier. 1.125 for range and 1.0 for melee.
Maybe you're right... I can only go by the numbers I see in game and in Mid's. But looking at all the melee abilities vs all of the ranged abilities for blasters most of the melee abilities tend to hit harder at similar tiers of the sets than equivalent ranged abilities... maybe the melee abilities just have higher base numbers?


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30