Can CoH Do Better?

So I think for the first time, City of Heroes gets mentioned at Escher Girls.

http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/2...city-of-heroes

The butt-and-bust shot is probably one of the most overused and nonsensical female hero poses (second to Rob Liefield's vast catalog.) One of the things I've most enjoyed about CoH has been avoiding some of the more odious tropes of comic books. Granted, Sister Psyche's costume (to say nothing of Swan's) has been pretty, well, revealing. And then there's Clamor. But there's been no frankly silly posing of female characters in the game or the art. (Or maybe there has been, and it's just not been as obvious as the new splash page?)

Why the change? Just to follow the trope? That's not really good enough; in fact it's kind of sad if that was the case. Can CoH do better with its art and characters? Take a leading role in moving the art form to something better?

I realize that, this being the Internet and all, I'll be flamed for this. I suppose that can't be helped.

(It's probably just me, but has anyone else noticed that the art has been getting kind of racier? Starting with Desdemona, on through the new Penelope Yin, The Most Powerful Psychic In The World, whose father probably does not know she's running around dressed like that.)

you can always do better, and the current load screen certainly has its issues.

that said, it's such a huge improvement over Eunuch Statesman I'll give it a pass.

=P

Bring back the ACU about to get its face punched off. )-:

I like it. I like it in comics. I would like to see more of it.

Yeah, I'm not too worried about it when Shadow Hunter is right there next to her with impossibly big muscles, clawed hands, and hooves.

What load screen? I have no such load screen...

I expect a new load screen next issue. That doesn't really address the complaint, per se, but it provides and opportunity for it to be shuffled into the background, probably to come around later.

I don't have a problem with it, other than the post looking awkward. But then, I'm a guy.

I don't think anything explicitly changed, by the way. I think they just finally came up with an action scene where, in the context of comic art, a pose like that fit existing standards. In other words, there was probably never any conscious decision to avoid it, so it eventually happened.

Edit: To the OP, apparently you missed some the reaction to the cover art for the "Who Will Die" SSA series a while back. Sis Psyche basically looked ... much less ready for combat compared to her male allies in the pic, striking a shocked pose while they all looked ready to kick butt. And her expression was ... interesting. Honestly, I probably wouldn't have given it much thought until someone pointed it out, but I think compared to that, Penny looks positively progressive.

I don't know, I much prefer Eunuch Statesman. Crotch notwithstanding, this is probably the first pic I've seen of him where his glued-on helmet doesn't look goofy.

And, yeah, I think City of Heroes SHOULD do better. That pic which was suggested for the forum background and then scrapped looked considerably better. Slinky spine or not, I just don't like the artwork on Penny there. Too much scowl, too much weird ankle, and I'm getting mighty tired of people leaping at each other. Can we see a fight take place on the GROUND, please?

Or, you know, a loading screen that's NOT a battle? How about that memorial pick of Stats' coffin that got thrown around a while ago?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I think CoH can definitely do better than this.

Why should they resort to T&A to get people to look at it when better-drawn truly dynamic art will always be superior without demeaning women everywhere?

'Cause reducing women to body parts for titillation is demeaning, regardless if you personally enjoyed it.

Just because the comic book industry does this all the time does not mean CoH should as well. Be better than that!

It's also bad for the characters; Why would Penelope Yin ever leap into the air to try and smack someone when she can crush his mind from the ground? Why would she ever have that idiotic look on her face while doing it?

Okay, longer (and more explanatory) commentary.

People need to realize that City of Heroes is basically a comic book-themed game. The artists are not out to make social commentary, they're not out to invent a new style all their own, they're not out to offend or to placate anybody. Their focus is giving the game and its associated marketing materials, themes, etc. a comic booky "look and feel."

If you go down to your local comic book store, it's true that you can find some titles that are a bit more realistic, but to be blunt, that's not the kind of book City of Heroes is looking to emulate. They're looking to emulate the look and feel of mainstream titles, stuff like X-Men, Superman, Wonder Woman, The Hulk, Spider-Man, Teen Titans, The Avengers, The Justice League, etc. Like it or not, if you go looking up reference material for these kinds of books, this is the kind of art you're going to see. As a direct result, this is the kind of art the game is going to be focused on.

Some of us don't mind so much when we see a comic book female in an impossibly awkward pose. Exaggeration is par for the course in this medium. It doesn't just apply to women. Almost every comic book male that is drawn is done so with the intention of having features that appeal to women--impossibly huge muscles, an impossibly handsome face, free of any real-life blemishes (except those which are socially regarded as "tough" or "rugged," such as a tattoo or distinguishing scar), and yes, in some books and with some characters, even a healthy... um... "package" to go with the package.

It never ceases to amuse me and, to some degree, frustrate me that some people get all up in arms that comic book women are portrayed in an unrealistic manner. Ms. Marvel, for instance, has enormous physical strength. She can shoot energy bolts from her hands. She can rearrange the molecules of her clothing to form a skin-tight costume. She can defy gravity. Bullets bounce off of her without so much as tickling. Yet we're supposed to think that it's unfathomable that she might twist in a way during the chaos of a battle to the death that would make a normal person slightly uncomfortable?

So yeah, Penny Yin looks pretty durn hot in that picture. So does Ms. Liberty in most pictures I've seen of her. So does Swan. And Dominatrix. And Numina. And don't even get me started on Mynx.

But you know what? So does Statesman. So does Manticore. Even Positron's armor has large, strong-looking arms and what looks like a "ripped abs" look to it, and it's armor. Is this a realistic expectation of what men are supposed to look like? The guy looks like his muscles are literally about to burst out from under his skin. Is this? Is this? This?

Now, I'm not saying that artists never go overboard or that I never get irritated when the exaggeration is to the point where it actually detracts from the book, both for males and for females. There are sometimes legitimate concerns over the oversexualization of comic book characters, especially ones who are supposed to be average schmoes-turned-superhero, particularly young characters, etc. But really, this game isn't the place to address such matters. Again, the goal here is to mimic the art form, to give players the sense that they're in a comic book, not to be realistic, redefine a genre, or make social commentary.

If anything, valid criticisms of the game's artwork would have to focus on ways in which it doesn't look enough like comic books, not that it looks too much like them. And looking at mainstream comic books, that's not a problem.

They can, and they certainly should.

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with a female avatar, but I honestly don't think any gal is going to be fighting in an out fit that exposes that much skin - they're super powered people, not oil/mud wrestling gals.

It makes no sense, other than the folks that conjured up the designs were locked into that room for a little too long while pizza was slid through the door until the darn program compiled.

I was a little disappointed with the new load screen, and the Penelope Yin costume as well. The whole "butt-and-bust" twister pose is becoming kind of offensive. (Where does she keep her organs?) It's kind of disturbing how much you see it, once you've started noticing it.

Over and over, women in comics are put in ridiculous costumes, in completely implausible poses, in less active, less strong stances, doing "less important" things. (You all attack or shoot! I'll pose with my ...wand... over here in my stripper boots. Yeah. That's it.)

Please don't try to trot out "but superheroes aren't plausible" or "their not supposed to be realistic" -- Shadowhunter here looks powerful, strong, and menacing. Penelope is twisted like a pretzel, not as aggressively posed, and ... Hey! Eyes up here, boys.

I was really hoping COH would be better than that. I continue to hope! Maybe the next load screen will be better, when they see this feedback.
--
Malohin

P.S. No argument it's better than Statescrotch, though.

CoH is a Super Hero/Villain game. I see no mention of comics anywhere. So that argument is still so much guff as it always has been.


And...well, it's still bloody stupid in comics. Seriously, it's stupid. Doesn't matter what medium it's in. You can say 'Oh, it's based on X where they do it too!' as much as 'you' like; stupid is still stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Has anyone pointed out that Shadow Hunter is showing more skin than Penelope even has? Just another example of shameful objectification of werewolves.