The video games as art debate, goes a little deeper than what most people intially think it means. A lot of people took it as some kind of jab at video games but it really wasn't. (Sort of, Ebert can get snarky when he's challenged) If I remember correctly there is a long standing contingency in the art world (especially in the world of art review) that doesn't believe an interactive medium can be art and it's been debated for years and years regarding any type of interactive "art" not just games. Nobody really denies that there isn't artistry involved in making a video game, just that the medium itself can't be called "classicly art". It's not my opinion as I'm not qualified to answer one way or another. I just remember hearing an explanation of it on a podcast by someone that knew the concepts behind it and even though they were an avid gamer came to agree that it may be true. If there is any interest I'll try and rustle up a link if I can find it. It was pretty interesting, but I'm probably forgetting quite a few details.
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Originally Posted by Oliin
I don't really think that's exactly the case though. I think it'd be safer to say that critics also enjoy movies other than what the 'masses' like.
Last year is a bad example (lot of high-grossing horrible movies) but let's look at it any way. Out of the top 10 highest grossing films of the year (Harry Potter, Transformers, Pirates of the Caribbean, Twilight, Mission: Impossible, Kung Fu Panda 2, Fast Five, The Hangover part 2, The Smurfs, and Cars 2) four of them were well received critically (65 or higher on Metacritic/Rottentomatoes) and only The Smurfs had overall negative reviews. Everyone else had a mix of reviews that ended up being average. Currently Prometheus has generally positive reviews as does The Avengers, Men In Black 3, and Madagascar 3. Critics a lot of the times seem to generally enjoy the movies that are popular, the issue is that a lot of them also really like movies that are challenging or dull or simply interesting from a film standpoint and those are usually not popular with the 'masses'. |
Let's just say that I'm going to disagree and leave it at that.
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Oh no worries, there are actually several critics out there who really do seem to have a track record like you suggest. I just don't see it as an all critics thing.
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Originally Posted by Dark One
Let's just say that I'm going to disagree and leave it at that.
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Heh. Really? It's not the most exciting of Trek films, but it wasn't dull.
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Originally Posted by Oliin
Star Trek: The Motion Picture, ... Those things are what I'd call dull.
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Yea seriously. For some reason I find the movie to be almost painfully boring. It's not that it doesn't have conflict or action in it, it's just that it has dull action and conflict. For me it's basically pretty and that's more or less it.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Heh. Really? It's not the most exciting of Trek films, but it wasn't dull.
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I listen to marketing as much as I listen to the opinions of movie critics, which is to say I ignore both. Marketing sole goal is to say whatever it takes to get your butts in the seats, And I consider movie critics to be . . . well let's just say I have a low opinion of them.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
I think it depends on how the film is marketed.
Prometheus is reasonably fun; but it was marketed as something deeper, and that is where it fails. |
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What kind of soulless husk would not enjoy Shaun of the Dead?? |
Originally Posted by Dark One
In cases like that, I think people try to call the movie a "film" and "good" so that they appear to be more intellectual than the plebian masses that enjoy something like AvP or Shaun of the Dead.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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Heck if I know. I certainly don't want to meet them, they'd probably be like the person who used to live across the hall from me who though The Princess Bride was a stupid movie. Almost zero sense of fun there I tell ya.
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
What kind of soulless husk would not enjoy Shaun of the Dead??
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Well, if you judge the quality of film by the number of explosions, yes.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
The Artist, The King's Speech, Slumdog Millionaire, Million Dollar Baby, and A Beautiful Mind just to name the more recent, egregious winners. One word sums up these films:
DULL. |
I know lots of people who enjoyed all those films, and where bored to tears by Return of the King.
Most of those films aren't to my taste, either. But I'm mature enough to know that something can be good even if it's not to my taste.
And I really enjoyed The Kings Speech, anyway.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Me too. "slow motion movie" is right. It's a remake of a TV episode played at half speed.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
Yea seriously. For some reason I find the movie to be almost painfully boring. It's not that it doesn't have conflict or action in it, it's just that it has dull action and conflict. For me it's basically pretty and that's more or less it.
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DULL is exactly what it is.
As a comparison, a lot more stuff actually happens in The Kings Speech than in ST:TMP.
I really should do something about this signature.
has anyone had the thought of:
Settlers head to LV426 to colonise the planet... (between the events of Alien and Aliens) You know, the planet Prometheus went a ******* long time ago and never returned from, and apparently for which nobody bothered to look for?
Despite now being billed as a standalone story on most sites, when you announce that Ridley Scott is directing an Alien prequel, you deliver an Alien prequel and I think the fans, whilst entertained are all left saying "uuuh what?"
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
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LV-426 is not the moon in Prometheus.|
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
has anyone had the thought of:
Settlers head to LV426 to colonise the planet... (between the events of Alien and Aliens) You know, the planet Prometheus went a ******* long time ago and never returned from, and apparently for which nobody bothered to look for? |
I didn't dislike Prometheus because it's not enough (or too much, critics seem to disagree on this point) of an Alien prequel. I disliked it because it wasn't very good.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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I might have forgiven it being "not very good" if it had been an actual Alien prequel, rather than pretentious claptrap which exploited the Alien legacy to attract far more interest than the film would have had on it's own merits.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
LV-426 is not the moon in Prometheus.
I didn't dislike Prometheus because it's not enough (or too much, critics seem to disagree on this point) of an Alien prequel. I disliked it because it wasn't very good. |
Save your money and get Dr Who: The Arc in Space DVD instead.
I really should do something about this signature.
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No, but the moon in Prometheus is LV-233 (or 223, I forget which), so it's not too much of a leap to assume they are in the same system, if not moons of the same planet, though I don't know much about astronomical naming conventions.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
LV-426 is not the moon in Prometheus.
I didn't dislike Prometheus because it's not enough (or too much, critics seem to disagree on this point) of an Alien prequel. I disliked it because it wasn't very good. |
We don't know a lot about the Weyland (-Yutani) company between the events of Prometheus and Alien, but we do know that Vickers mentions fighting for control of the company, so its conceivable that with her lost in space, the new CEO wasn't really motivated to send out a rescue party. We also don't know what effect the events of any sequel to Prometheus will have one the story.
Weyland Corp could have paid off the families of the lost crew and swept the whole mess under the rug until... however many years later... one of their commercial towing vessels happened to be passing close to the LV system and picked up a "distress beacon." Whether anyone at the company knew what they were sending the crew of the Nostromo to investigate is debateable, but Ash was in contact with them, so they definitely knew what they were sending the colonists into between the events of Alien and Aliens.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
If it's not the same planet we have to assume that the engineers really suck at piloting then, as they've managed to smack 2 ships into LV-223 and a further one into 426 then!!!
on the upside, it did say somewhere that it would take 2 more films to get from Promethius to the events that lead to the room found by Kane in Aliens...
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
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That's the thing. We have no idea how they are naming these things. LV-something and LV-somethingElse could be on the opposite ends of the galaxy, or it could be a clerical error and they are really the same place. We have no way to know.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
No, but the moon in Prometheus is LV-233 (or 223, I forget which), so it's not too much of a leap to assume they are in the same system, if not moons of the same planet, though I don't know much about astronomical naming conventions.
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We can assume that the writer wants us to think it's 'Somewhere Else' since he chose to call it something else.
Oh, and while we're on the topic of assumptions, I also think it's fairly safe to assume the Engineers didn't crash-land on LV-223 (not counting that one time they got rammed by an Earth spaceship.) But hey, for all we know LV-223 could be an abandoned junkyard. If they forgot one of their own in the trunk, that'd explain why he's so pissed when we let him out.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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LV-426 could stand for "Landing Vehicle 426". Namely, the place where vehicle 426 landed, rather than a system directly. The actual planetary system for 426 is in Zeta Reticuli and 223 is in Gleise 86.
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
That's the thing. We have no idea how they are naming these things. LV-something and LV-somethingElse could be on the opposite ends of the galaxy, or it could be a clerical error and they are really the same place. We have no way to know.
We can assume that the writer wants us to think it's 'Somewhere Else' since he chose to call it something else. Oh, and while we're on the topic of assumptions, I also think it's fairly safe to assume the Engineers didn't crash-land on LV-223 (not counting that one time they got rammed by an Earth spaceship.) But hey, for all we know LV-223 could be an abandoned junkyard. If they forgot one of their own in the trunk, that'd explain why he's so pissed when we let him out. |
I love all the "I reject your reality and insert my own" that some people are trying to do.
They are two different planets, two different systems.
Prometheus - 2089-2093 - LV-223
Alien - 2122 - LV-426
Aliens - 2179 - LV-426
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Tempus unum hominem manet
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People are simply looking for a reality that makes some kind of sense...
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I love all the "I reject your reality and insert my own" that some people are trying to do.
They are two different planets, two different systems. Prometheus - 2089-2093 - LV-223 Alien - 2122 - LV-426 Aliens - 2179 - LV-426 |
I really should do something about this signature.
It makes sense. The prequel occurs years before the first Alien film on a different planet. It appears the Engineers had some hand in either "designing" the Xenomorph or was trying to tweak existing species into the ultimate biological weapon.
Since Alien itself had no pre-existing back story, the only thing that ties the two movies together is the crashed Engineer ship with the chest burst pilot. One can make the assumption that "the company" took the info from the Prometheus expedition and made it SOP to track down any Engineer signal if detected which is the reason why the crew was waken in Alien and told to investigate. It also appears that it's SOP to entrust the androids with other missions that the rest of the crew is unaware of.
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Tempus unum hominem manet
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Next time, try opening without a strawman, then I might take your arguments more seriously.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Well, if you judge the quality of film by the number of explosions, yes.
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Last year is a bad example (lot of high-grossing horrible movies) but let's look at it any way. Out of the top 10 highest grossing films of the year (Harry Potter, Transformers, Pirates of the Caribbean, Twilight, Mission: Impossible, Kung Fu Panda 2, Fast Five, The Hangover part 2, The Smurfs, and Cars 2) four of them were well received critically (65 or higher on Metacritic/Rottentomatoes) and only The Smurfs had overall negative reviews. Everyone else had a mix of reviews that ended up being average. Currently Prometheus has generally positive reviews as does The Avengers, Men In Black 3, and Madagascar 3.
Critics a lot of the times seem to generally enjoy the movies that are popular, the issue is that a lot of them also really like movies that are challenging or dull or simply interesting from a film standpoint and those are usually not popular with the 'masses'.
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