Quote:
I was one of the people on Beta that posted it was too easy. And it was. |
Originally Posted by TonyV
I've seen this complaint about almost everything that's not trivially easy in the game. Hamidon trial, every iTrial, STF and LRTF, etc.
And within a couple of weeks, people eventually figure it out and they pretty much never fail. So yeah, color me not worried. |
Now it is hard. It takes some thought, some effort, and some planning.
But in a few weeks it will be just as easy as everything else as people learn what to do, how to do it, and not to try it with 3 tanks, 5 scrappers, 2 brutes, 1 dominator, and a controller (like I did on my first run live).
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
Someone needs to stop the devs before they release anymore content that encourages that kind fo deviant gameplay.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
It takes some thought, some effort, and some planning.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Someone needs to stop the devs before they release anymore content that encourages that kind fo deviant gameplay.
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Quote:
* Looks for the "Like" button...
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
It seems to me I could interpret what you're saying as raid content being so inherently boring it needs raid-only rewards to be played at all! I know that's likely not your intent, but surely if raid-style play is fun in itself it shouldn't need specific rewards unobtainable in any other way.| I don't understand that claim. It's designed as raid content. I get people not liking raid content in general, but I don't get how that shows lack of confidence in anything. They're creating content with the aim of catering to people who want raid-style play. I'm not sure that's a great fit with CoH's overall community, but that's what they're doing. |
I was really trying to make a general statement, not specific to raids. If the content is fun and offers similar rewards, it will be played. If there has to be an additional carrot to lure players to it, that's a possible hint it might not be good enough to be played.
We're not merely talking about bigger rewards, here. We're talking about exclusivity.
Yes, MMO players tend to flock to the easiest option - but there's ways to balance that so every set of particular tasks is roughly in the same range of rewards, and despite a particular one still being "best" and a particular one still being "worst", players will run fun content first. The merits system for TFs achieve that quite well. For that matter, even at the height of Katie runs when it was a rare reward roll regardless of TF length, you still had plenty of people running the other task forces.
To hide a particular reward behind a particular task removes the constraint of quality. Players will run the content even if they are miserable doing so because they want the shiny. It's a monopoly, and it's just as bad and bad for the same reasons in a MMORPG as it is in real life economies.
I only have 4 characters that I bother to do incarnate content with. I might add another or remove one based on how I feel about playing them at the time. Those that insist on T4ing all of their 50's... suck it up.
I tend to happily run any iTrial a group I know with a reputation I know, trust and respect is doing. Doesn't matter which one. Once I get all my common and uncommons I'll still run anything, but I will certainly bust out certain characters for Keyes and especially Underground. A Rare or Very Rare guranteed, plus Emp and Astrals and a chunk o' threads? Yes please.
The Magisterium seems to have the same drop rates as Lam/BAF/MoM, etc so while I'll run it happily I don't see why I'd pick it over one of the other standard iTrials.
My only suggestion is possibly changing to the Keyes drop table and calculations.
It is a fun and relatively simple trial.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
Quote:
I think that's a nice theory, but there's a self-fulfilling prophecy here. They decided to make raid content. Raid content requires a large group of people - larger than other, prior content, by definition. Getting large groups of people together is harder than getting smaller groups of people together, and giving them something that is challenging is also harder. So to give them a reason to bother gathering large groups of people, you need the reward to be worthwhile.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I was really trying to make a general statement, not specific to raids. If the content is fun and offers similar rewards, it will be played. If there has to be an additional carrot to lure players to it, that's a possible hint it might not be good enough to be played.
We're not even talking about bigger rewards, here. We're talking about exclusivity. Yes, MMO players tend to flock to the easiest option - but there's ways to balance that so every set of particular tasks is roughly in the same range, and despite a particular one still being "best" and a particular one still being "worst", players will run fun content first. The merits system for TFs achieve that quite well. For that matter, even at the height of Katie runs when it was a rare reward roll regardless of TF length, you still had plenty of people running the other task forces. |
I don't believe the devs are intentionally creating crap content they expect us to play only because they put new shinies behind it. I think they are hit and miss on what content people will enjoy - just like they are with TFs, missions, zone events, and everything else. And people who really dislike the very notion of raids sometimes point to the misses as "proof" that they're hiding behind the shiny as an excuse. I don't buy into that.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
On one hand, you've single-handedly redeemed the thread.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
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On the other, I'll have to find/make another avatar now. I can't beat that level of win. :P
Maybe a Ricki facepalm, she's always been good at that.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
My main problem with the new trial, is what happened to their vaulted Risk/Reward, running & succeeding in one of the hardest iTrials should give better rewards then a lowly Common.
Mistress Phanta - L50 Illusion/Empathy Controller
Blind Fury - L50 Katana/Super Reflexes Scrapper
Hunter Smith - L50 Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster
Twirling Dervish - L50 Dual Blade/Willpower Brute
Quote:
Eh. I don't like getting commons either, but I don't actually think this is one of the hardest trials. I think both MoM and UGT are "harder" in the sense of being more likely to fail. (UGT gets rewards that make that somewhat worthwhile IMO. MoM, not so much.)
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Originally Posted by HunterSmith
My main problem with the new trial, is what happened to their vaulted Risk/Reward, running & succeeding in one of the hardest iTrials should give better rewards then a lowly Common.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Risk vs Reward was the old regime's mantra if I'm no mistaken. Recently it's been more along the lines of Time Invested vs Reward. So UG gets a great reward table and bonus threads. TPN gets a bonus chunk of threads. The new PYTF gets a moderate reward for the required time. The Mag just doesn't take all that long.
Now, I said a little farther up that I think it should have the Keyes reward skewing, but certainly not UG levels.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
Quote:
/shrug.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's not the way the Incarnate system is set up story-wise - we've already been told that Battalion is a bigger threat than Tyrant and the loyalists, and that defeating the dictatorship is required for us to get enough power to face the Coming Storm.
The Incarnate system is set up to be at the cutting edge of the evolving meta-storyline, where we get new "chapters" with each new Trial. |
I don't care what it is.
I was making a suggestion.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
The rap against the MagITrial is:
1. Boring.
2. Too Hard.
3. Only source of Hybrid iXP.
My response is:
1. That's subjective. And if you think it's boring, I won't tell you that you're wrong. I wonder if you find the BAF as equally boring since, to me, they're about the same structurally. Devs see datamining reports. The saw how much the BAF is farmed compared to the more complex iTrials. So, they gave us another BAF, albeit one with a harder end-boss.
2. If it's thought of as too hard, then, I say, "Good!" Tyrant should be as hard or harder than a Hamidon Raid since he's supposed to be that class of threat and power. But, as mentioned above, the STF, LRSF, ITF, BAF, Lambda, etc... were also complained as being too hard; and even before people got their hands on incarnate powers, players learned how to do them rather easily.
3. For a while, BAF and Lambda were the only sources of the two iXP types for their respective incarnate power trees. Same thing here. Sure, people didn't like that set-up previously, but this is nothing new. New content, new carrot to do it. This should not be surprising for an MMO. Besides, for those in the 'too hard' camp, the MagITrial is so incredibly easy to farm for it's unique iXP with the huge spawn fight up front... and that's exactly what folks are doing... just like they did with Lambda.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Quote:
Which is why I made my suggestion. In the alternate paths this would be less of an issues, as there would be multiple Incarnate content that could be done without level shifts as a requirement. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Let's be honest here. Any additional means of progress would be alt-unfriendly. If they had added progress to level 60, that would be alt-unfriendly, and the longer it took to reach 60, the more unfriendly it would be.
There's nothing about the Incarnate approach that's inherently more alt-unfriendly than that, with one exception. Level shifts inherently break the SSK system, which is indirectly hard on alting compared to availability of SSK play. IMO, we need to never see any more slottable level shifts from iPowers, because that will drive further diffusion of players into content for which are appropriate to their characters' current shifts. I don't think CoH can afford that currently. (Level shifts granted in missions, like the ones we get from the pillars, are fine, as long as they're available to everyone in the mission.) |
With the way they CURRENTLY are going they are going to have to find fancy ways of adding more +1s to everything in one way or another.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I lol'd quietly. |
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
|
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
It's like the devs knew some folks would want the slot faster and put that mission intentionally in there or something . . .|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
3. For a while, BAF and Lambda were the only sources of the two iXP types for their respective incarnate power trees. Same thing here. Sure, people didn't like that set-up previously, but this is nothing new. New content, new carrot to do it. This should not be surprising for an MMO. Besides, for those in the 'too hard' camp, the MagITrial is so incredibly easy to farm for it's unique iXP with the huge spawn fight up front... and that's exactly what folks are doing... just like they did with Lambda. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Except farming and aborting the mission every 7 minutes is tedious boring and stupid.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It's like the devs knew some folks would want the slot faster and put that mission intentionally in there or something . . .
|
The trail should have not been buffed.
IT was a big mistake.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
My comment was pure sarcasm. Guess I was too subtle.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Except farming and aborting the mission every 7 minutes is tedious boring and stupid.
The trail should have not been buffed. IT was a big mistake. |
I'm sure they will come up with a new way to unlock the slot later.
I haven't even logged in since this went live.
Hybrid can wait. It gives no level shift.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I say keep the current look. On these boards, there can never be too much of it.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
On one hand, you've single-handedly redeemed the thread.
On the other, I'll have to find/make another avatar now. I can't beat that level of win. :P Maybe a Ricki facepalm, she's always been good at that. |
I'm half expecting GG to whip one up with her poser comic model.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
My comment was pure sarcasm. Guess I was too subtle.
I'm sure they will come up with a new way to unlock the slot later. I haven't even logged in since this went live. Hybrid can wait. It gives no level shift. |
Might have to wait a long time.
if I am right and this goes onto the NOT TO BE RUN list like UG and Mom, you will have a very hard time opening hybrid.
Even though the hardcore mchardhats seem to like it, I suspect the general populace doesnt, there seems to be more complaints than likes in both the forums and on the chat channels.
Opening the hybrid isnt hard, its boring, not fun and tedious running the first 7 minutes over and over again.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The rap against the MagITrial is:
1. Boring. 2. Too Hard. 3. Only source of Hybrid iXP. My response is: 1. That's subjective. And if you think it's boring, I won't tell you that you're wrong. I wonder if you find the BAF as equally boring since, to me, they're about the same structurally. Devs see datamining reports. The saw how much the BAF is farmed compared to the more complex iTrials. So, they gave us another BAF, albeit one with a harder end-boss. 2. If it's thought of as too hard, then, I say, "Good!" Tyrant should be as hard or harder than a Hamidon Raid since he's supposed to be that class of threat and power. But, as mentioned above, the STF, LRSF, ITF, BAF, Lambda, etc... were also complained as being too hard; and even before people got their hands on incarnate powers, players learned how to do them rather easily. 3. For a while, BAF and Lambda were the only sources of the two iXP types for their respective incarnate power trees. Same thing here. Sure, people didn't like that set-up previously, but this is nothing new. New content, new carrot to do it. This should not be surprising for an MMO. Besides, for those in the 'too hard' camp, the MagITrial is so incredibly easy to farm for it's unique iXP with the huge spawn fight up front... and that's exactly what folks are doing... just like they did with Lambda. |
It has managed to find the worst possible option, both boring and too hard.
Its too hard because its too easy to fail the end boss, so players respond to that by skipping the boss and just farming the front end. The stages dont even give astrals I think.
This goes from too hard to boring real quick and to stupid even quicker.
REally...... did they even test this?
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Won't be long till there are sMAG trials, skipping Tyrant. Ran 6 yesterday to unlock it, only 1 succeeded. Got to the point where I was quitting at Tyrant and joining a new one.
Won't be long? People were doing that yesterday.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
There isn't enough time for it to be any of these things. Level 54 IDF are exploding so quickly that it's a laughing matter to just exit and re-form. Just got Hybrid unlocked and Control Partial Core Graft is mine!|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Might have to wait a long time.
if I am right and this goes onto the NOT TO BE RUN list like UG and Mom, you will have a very hard time opening hybrid. Even though the hardcore mchardhats seem to like it, I suspect the general populace doesnt, there seems to be more complaints than likes in both the forums and on the chat channels. Opening the hybrid isnt hard, its boring, not fun and tedious running the first 7 minutes over and over again. |
There will be plenty of success in this trial...as people get used to it
I remember raging over the purple patches in Apex for crying out loud and now it's a 10-15 minute joke. Take a break from it if it's causing you grief.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA