Medicine pool

I didn't think about that, but I don't see it as too much of an issue because without defence you can't really use it, and the end/heal ratio isn't enough to make much different (If any) in downtime between fights.

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Well this is a game thank god that doesn't apply.


Not really. Soloers gain basically nothing from aid other or stim. It doesn't make it more rounded at all. Unless you mean more rounded as it gimp your build slightly so you're not so powerful.

Well when you chose a buff/debuff AT you sort knew what you would be in for, playing support. The point here is that aid other/stim forces people to get support skills even for non support ATs or people who dont want to play support.

Which makes less sense to lock it behind 2 bad borderline useless soloing skills. If this game was designed to be solo friendly. Which is why I brought up changing stim to a mez or whatever, so it won't be 99% useless soloing, merely 95%.

No one said anything about any other powers except Medicine. I'm saying you shouldn't be forced to play a support role or a dps role if you don't want to, just like people play petless MMs. People should do what they want, if you don't like it just don't group with them.



No, boxing is never a wasted power. You can always use boxing and kick soloing or teaming to fill a chain or leveling or whatever, you can't always use stim and heal other if you solo if at all. In any case changing fighting would only affect very minor of people. Because even if you open up tough as a first pick, you still need another power to take weave, which most people will also take when they're commited to the fightan pool. I don't know where this "nerf fighting" came from, I'm pretty sure I never said anything about changing fighting.

No the idea is to make heal self opened up from the get go. So you have 3 powers to choose from instead of 2, and choose what ever you want the best. What you're saying in your example is changing the entire mechanics of the game which is a complete different issue, you might as well have suggested letting there be friendly fire on AOEs.

if you open up healself as a first pick you can still take heal other and stim just like before if you wanted to. If you force stim and heal other on them and then say the players sux because don't help people when all they wanted and slotted was heal self, well I don't think that's right. I'll just leave it at that.

I mentioned boxing in one of my posts, I see it exactly the same as the medicine pool, locking a power you would want for reason A behind a power you would only really want for reason B.

Just as stim/aid other adds nothing to a build looking for survivability, boxing adds nothing to a build looking for survivability (And doesn't even get on the bar on any of my toons, I actually use aid other/stim occasionally).

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Totally agree with the Princess yet again. The argument for medicine getting the change the OP advocates (because you shouldn't be forced into getting a power that you don't want and don't need in order to get one you do want) applies just as well to Fighting as it does for Medicine. I'd even say it applies better for Fighting than for Medicine.

Directly, no. It is an exemplum. A sort of anecdote with a point. The point being, that nothing is truly free. Better to argue of the cost if worth it, than to argue that there is no cost. But yes, it's conceptually related, but not critical to my specific game related statements.




No, I meant exactly what I said. More rounded. Broader skill set. Capable of more things. Having a skill outside you milieu as opposed to not having a skill outside your milieu is more rounded. Yes, you are a very very tiny bit less powerful within your milieu, but the fractional difference is pretty small. But, you pick up other abilities in exchange for this. You don't want that. Again, I understand. Again, that's a valid argument, but most of the rest of your arguments though don't seem to hold water.



First, if someone were unfamiliar with the game, choosing something that relies on scaling power up (of themselves and allies) and down (enemies) might seem a fun and interesting way to play And they might not assume that this necessarily implies that a bunch of their powers wouldn't apply to themselves. So, 'you knew what you would be in for'.. Is wrong. Second, it's irrelevant to your point. When you take the Medicine pool, you know what you're in for. Obviously, else you'd not be complaining about it. So, what about the poor solo emps? What about them not being forced to take a power that's useless to them? It seems, or at least it feel to me, as if you keep trying to paint a picture of yourself as a champion of the poor maligned, mistreated soloers. And, while all soloers are bad off, it's the scrappers that worry you the most, because they have it worst among the solo crowd. And that just isn't so. I don't buy that. As Bill has said, what it comes down to, is you'd like Medicine changed so you don't have to get Stim or Aid Other because you just don't like them. You're entitled to want that. And even ask for that. I don't want the game changed in that way. I'm entitled to want it to not get changed in that specific fashion. And that's all it comes down to. It's not 'gimping' your builds. If your builds are gimped without Aid Self, I've got news for you, they will be still gimpy with it.



The game is designed to be solo friendly. And it is. It's designed to be a social, team based game. And it is. It wants to encourage some some of both aspects and it does. Mostly, I like the balance it strikes. As a predominantly solo player myself, I'm keenly aware of this balance. If it on occasion goes against the soloer, it's certainly not in the structure of the pool powers, but in the Incarnate content. I do not think that 1-50 the game is TOO much of a burden on the soloer. I do not think the game makes solo builds to tough to design effectively. I do not see a need for you changes to the prerequisites, or to stim. Since I see no need, and since I would dislike both changes, I'd prefer you not get your way. It's not personal, I just don't share your preference.



As a side note, if your builds, especially the leveling up build, as opposed to the finished build, of some of your scrappers are a bit too fragile for your tastes, perhaps you can post a sample of what you have got to the Workshop, and I'm sure the people there would be more than happy to help you find ways to up your survivability. Very likely, without using the Medicine pool at all, thus avoiding your main complaint about having to take powers you don't want and solving your underlying problem without the need to modify the games existing structure. Make sure to let them know if you are looking for a leveling build, as opposed to a finished build. Or, both, if you like.

I get what you are saying. It seems you don't. You want to be able to get Aid Self, without having to take Aid Other or Stimulant. You don't mind taking boxing, so it's no big deal to you, and as much as you champion 'choice' you don't mean choice in the broad sense, you mean in the very specific sense as it applies to you. If you wan the option, it should be available. The game should be changed (ie the Medicine pool) because of choice, but you don't care about the hover blaster's choice not to have a useless melee power.

I'm starting to get a bit amazed that you really don't seem able to grasp that it's only about a preference. And only about yours. Well, you're entitled to have that preference. And to ask for the game to be changed to suit your preference. And people are equally entitled to disagree and ask that you not get your request.

It's really that simple, and trying to dress it up any other way isn't going to work.

You want the game to change just to suit you. I get that.
I would rather the game stay as is, just to suit me, or to change to suit me better, but I'd settle with stay the same. (all of this just specifically regarding the medicine pool, I don't want the game as a whole to stay the same globally forever, that would be stagnation)

There is nothing wrong with either of us wanting these things. But it's not about choice, and it's not about freedom. It's about personal preference. I think I can say it no clearer than that.

*shrugs*

I think it has more to do with the amount of effect the powers you're aiming for have and how valued they are to a build. Tough is a decent chunk of resistance to common damage types and Aid Self is a handy self heal. Apparently the devs think those powers can add quite a bit to many builds while apparently you guys find either power a wash. In the dev's thinking, gaining both advantages for 4 power picks is fair while you guys think 2 is adequate. Then I'd have to ask just how weak you think these powers are? It's about choice? Okay, well what about balance?

Aid Other provides stun protection, I thought. But Aid Other has lots of uses. NPC allies are all over the game. Sometimes, the survival of NPCs is tied to mission completion. There have been many times I wish I could hand an NPC a few inspirations (I don't even think team inspirations work on them). You can buff them with Leadership or protect them with taunt but if you don't have healing powers, more often than not, NPCs go down which can be a problem for heroes that actually try to *save* people they run into and not let them die for your cause.

I should probably say that hiding Tough/Weave behind 2 weaker powers that give survivability wouldn't see any complaints from me, my gripe is being forced to take a power that has nothing to do with the powers I really want (IE: Take an attack to get defence, even though I can see how they fit into 'fighting' they don't make gameplay sense).

The only way I could really justify Aid Self being a first pick was using the same logic, but it is weak enough that I don't see any balance concerns like there would be with Tough/Weave.

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Aid Self does.

This is part of the reason my Warshade took Aid Other; i don't even have Aid Self over five levels later because i have multiple ways to restore my own hp. Aid Other is for teammates when teamed, and NPC allies and pets when solo.

I was actually wrong. Aid Other doesn't have Stun Resistance, although Aid Self does, like you said.

No you see I'm for medicine be unlocked, I don't care either way about boxing, I'm going to take it most of the time either way to mule. If someone else want to champion that cause that's fine, it's not going to make a dif to me, so of course I rarely mention it.

WHen it comes to preference , well alot of people prefer not having to go through one of the powers to get to aid self or tough as you mentioned, but they don't have the choice.
If that's the game changing to me needs that fine, but even if it did change that way, the only thing you would have gotten is more choices for everyone, like choosing to take stim or aid other, not less choices.

Regardless of what or where that change comes form from my wishes or your wishes or w/e, I think more choice is always better especially when there's little to no down side, but that's just imo.

More build choice was just the happy result of what I was asking for so I'm going to mention it in my posts. But I'm not a champion of "more choices".

You say no and then proceed to affirm Madadh's post. An odd choice of phrasing.

Anyway, you use Boxing for a set mule, but you can do the same with Aid Other if you're so inclined. Admittedly the set bonuses from slotting Aid Other are generally not as in demand as Boxing when min/maxing.

Just wanted to make a comment: Locking powers behind other powers is how powers *should* work. I shouldn't be able to get Eagle's Claw without getting at least 1 other Martial Arts power. Same with any set and game, really. Prerequisites is how you stop people from just grabbing the best powers from every pool and outfitting their build with only the best powers. It's a measure to force you to choose some rather than all.

Also, this isn't those other MMOs where we have Heal Minor Wounds, Heal Wounds and Heal Major Wounds all as 3 separate powers you have to choose and the lower powers are limited in actual use. In our game, all that non-sense is rolled into one. There are no weaker tier powers that lead up to 'the good stuff'. Which makes me scratch my head with people mention Aid Self being locked behind unrelated powers.

Would you rather the tier 1 be Minor Aid Self, a click 1/4 the power of Aid Self then have tier 2 be Major Aid Self which is only 3/4 the power of Aid Self so that you have to take both to equal what we have now? The reason a prerequisite may not seem 'related' is because each power functions at full capacity for its capability.

Ok?

I believe I said that I wished the vet reward (the one that allows for you to skip a prerequesite would carry over to pools like presence, fighting, medicine & stealth). I am not saying you should not get what you are asking for, I merely stated what I use aid other and stim for on my melee toons.