Medicine pool
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-05-28 19:17 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I think there's huge utility in Aid Other and in Stimulant. If you want to heal yourself and ignore healing other people, that's your business, but something like that should cost you two power picks. It's a perfectly reasonable trade-off.
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I kind of disagree. The self target should be before the heal other.
I'd rather just see the medicine pool expanded to add a 5th power like they did with all the travel powers so you can pick from the first 3 powers.
The pools are the way they are to deter min/maxing so you can swiftly dip into the pools and grab your Acrobatics, Hasten, Weave, Aid Self then the Leadership pool. It's so you have to choose which pools you need rather than just grabbing the good stuff on every build.
I'd like to see heal self as a T1 pick. But it's more a suggestion thread.
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I agree, most pools have the useful power available straight away. I don't really see the need to lock any of them behind pre-requisit picks anymore.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
I think heal self need to be a teir 1 power in the medicine pool. ALot of people already only stick with the same 4-5 pools (speed, leadership, fightan and flight/jump/stealth) that making you basically waste a power pick in the medicine pool to get the power you actually want just make people less likely to take it.
What do you think? |
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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This would probably help those who don't min/max as much as those that do because the min/maxers are good at making sure the wasted power pick doesn't affect the build too badly.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
The pools are the way they are to deter min/maxing so you can swiftly dip into the pools and grab your Acrobatics, Hasten, Weave, Aid Self then the Leadership pool. It's so you have to choose which pools you need rather than just grabbing the good stuff on every build.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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Well if you want to be consistent with the rest of the pool then it really should be a T1 power. I don't think any other pool powers has pure situational powers as their first mandatory power picks, the only one that's even remotely close in is Boxing/Kick in the fightan pool. And boxing mules one of the best IOs set bonuses
Either that or get rid of stim and change it to a target mag 2 hold.
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Well that would never work because there's more than 4 pools. So already one pool need to get dropped, and the only pool that has purely useless prereqs (in terms of min maxing) is Medicine. If heal self with a first pick min/maxers will actually need to decide what pools to take, instead of always going to the same few then plugging the hole with destiny.
| The pools are the way they are to deter min/maxing so you can swiftly dip into the pools and grab your Acrobatics, Hasten, Weave, Aid Self then the Leadership pool. It's so you have to choose which pools you need rather than just grabbing the good stuff on every build. |
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They tried this during a closed beta. It pretty much messed up the balance of defensive powersets, and was quickly reversed.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
I think heal self need to be a teir 1 power in the medicine pool. ALot of people already only stick with the same 4-5 pools (speed, leadership, fightan and flight/jump/stealth) that making you basically waste a power pick in the medicine pool to get the power you actually want just make people less likely to take it.
What do you think? |
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Did they buff Aid Self at the same time? Honestly it is a pretty poor power even in a defense set, I dropped it on my Elec/Shield because I found the only time I needed a heal were the times when damage was constantly getting through. I wouldn't take it even at T1 on most toons.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
They tried this during a closed beta. It pretty much messed up the balance of defensive powersets, and was quickly reversed.
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I would love to have seen this testing because I can't think for one minute how it messes with balance that much. Most min/maxers already have it, and everyone else doesn't have the capped defence needed to take proper advantage.
I also assume this test was a while ago before they buffed Energy Aura?
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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Now I *know* you're not serious. |
Originally Posted by Dz131
Either that or get rid of stim and change it to a target mag 2 hold.
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(And I disagree with the idea in general.)
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Now I *know* you're not serious.
(And I disagree with the idea in general.) |
Why do you disagree?
A mez is useful almost all the time, where as a heal other and antimez other is useless to half the players. The idea is to make 1 of the 2 very situational powers not so situational
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I dunno, I see a lot of min-maxers dismiss mezzes as not that valuable -- particularly weak mezzes, which a Tier 1 pool mezz would indeed be. I hardly ever see power players recommend skipping status protection, however.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Why do you disagree?
A mez is useful almost all the time, where as a heal other and antimez other is useless to half the players. The idea is to make 1 of the 2 very situational powers not so situational |
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And a mez is not "useful almost all the time," and isn't exactly in theme with the rest of the pool. Do you not play much support? Do you not play a mastermind, who would potentially find the ability to remove a status effect from a minion at all helpful?|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Why do you disagree?
A mez is useful almost all the time, where as a heal other and antimez other is useless to half the players. The idea is to make 1 of the 2 very situational powers not so situational |
Turning Stimulant into a mez wouldn't make it "not so situational," it would make it "situational in other situations" - and utterly useless in the situations it's useful for now. (Teammate rezzed? Stimulant. Squishy mezzed? Stimulant. Pet mezzed? Stimulant.)
Not all powers have to be "ZOMG I have to use it every single time it's up or it's useless."
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Uh no. You also have heal other in Medicine. So you can choose which one you want to pick depending on your play style. If you want to help your team choose heal other ,if you want to focus on the enemy choose whatever the other is changed to. The whole point is that you're not forced to choose a power that doesn't fit your play style to get to heal self.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And a mez is not "useful almost all the time," and isn't exactly in theme with the rest of the pool. Do you not play much support? Do you not play a mastermind, who would potentially find the ability to remove a status effect from a minion at all helpful?
Turning Stimulant into a mez wouldn't make it "not so situational," it would make it "situational in other situations" - and utterly useless in the situations it's useful for now. (Teammate rezzed? Stimulant. Squishy mezzed? Stimulant. Pet mezzed? Stimulant.) Not all powers have to be "ZOMG I have to use it every single time it's up or it's useless." |
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Stim is not exactly mez protection. Unless you mean mez protection for other people. Which is interruptable, takes no sets and basically useless to damage dealers.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
I dunno, I see a lot of min-maxers dismiss mezzes as not that valuable -- particularly weak mezzes, which a Tier 1 pool mezz would indeed be. I hardly ever see power players recommend skipping status protection, however.
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... which has jack all to do with stimulant. Heal Other != Stimulant. Healing someone will not help them if they're mezzed and unable to do anything - especially a small, interruptable heal like aid other.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Uh no. You also have heal other in Medicine. So you can choose which one you want to pick depending on your play style. If you want to help your team choose heal other ,if you want to focus on the enemy choose whatever the other is changed to. The whole point is that you're not forced to choose a power that doesn't fit your play style to get to heal self.
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And if you want to see how useless a power pool mez would be, go look at Presence.
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Uhh changing Stim was just a example. The point is to either find a way to make the first 2 powers not useless to say, a scrapper, or make heal self chooseable with no prereqs.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... which has jack all to do with stimulant. Heal Other != Stimulant.
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So a scrapper won't benefit by healing or de-mezzing a teammate?|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Uhh changing Stim was just a example. The point is to either find a way to make the first 2 powers not useless to say, a scrapper, or make heal self chooseable with no prereqs.
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Since when?
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Since they're in the front lines and those 2 powers are interrupt-able long cast skills? Also they won't be doing damage, which is their AT role.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
So a scrapper won't benefit by healing or de-mezzing a teammate?
Since when? |
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And a scrapper that's killed because the squishy that was healing/buffing them or debuffing the enemy is also not doing damage. So what's your point?|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Since they're in the front lines and those 2 powers are interrupt-able long cast skills? Also they won't be doing damage, which is their AT role.
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I also find the fact you're arguing interruptability while not doing damage amusing, given aid self is *also* interruptable and that while you use it, you're also not doing damage.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure at this point you're just continuing because you don't want to lose the argument. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And a scrapper that's killed because the squishy that was healing/buffing them or debuffing the enemy is also not doing damage. So what's your point?
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Good job with the false analogy.
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| I also find the fact you're arguing interruptability while not doing damage amusing, given aid self is *also* interruptable and that while you use it, you're also not doing damage. |
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In other words, you can't come up with a good reason why not, other than "I want I want." Which is fine, just be honest about it.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Yeah I'm pretty sure at this point you're just continuing because you don't want to lose the argument.
Good job with the false analogy. |
You don't want to take the prerequisites, pack some greens.
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| Easy use it after the fight, so you're fresh for the next mob. |
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Yeah I'm pretty sure I did, obviously you don't read the rest of the thread. But good job coming up with come up a reason why its a bad idea apart from:|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
In other words, you can't come up with a good reason why not, other than "I want I want."
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| (And I disagree with the idea in general.) |
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| Also true for the other two powers. Next? |
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You do realize there are more ATs than scrappers? Power pools are not designed for one AT. Pools that are are called "Primary" and "Secondary" pools. What a scrapper doesn't find "useful" (and I find your "logic" highly suspect, thus the ease in shooting holes in your arguments) other ATs may. |
Originally Posted by Dz131
Yeah I'm pretty sure I did, obviously you don't read the rest of the thread. But good job coming up with come up a reason why its a bad idea apart from:
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If you don't want to take a prerequisite for aid self, pick a primary or secondary with one or more self heals and/or +Regen powers. They give you full power lists when you pick.
I do note you don't quote the OTHER examples on why it's useful. So, pot, kettle.
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| and how useful Stim and heal other are for scrappers. lel |
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| Yeah you should be forced into doing things you hate just so you can get a power your want. You must love WoW. |
Also, do note "things you hate" is not universal... note my arguing FOR it on a scrapper, as I find it useful to not have to wait for someone to stop staggering around from rezzing after a fight or waiting for a mez to wear off so I can get to another mob. YOU hating it does not mean EVERYONE does.
Now, care to come up with an actual argument? Or are you just going to continue throwing personal nonsense around (showing you don't know me, as well.)
I think heal self need to be a teir 1 power in the medicine pool. ALot of people already only stick with the same 4-5 pools (speed, leadership, fightan and flight/jump/stealth) that making you basically waste a power pick in the medicine pool to get the power you actually want just make people less likely to take it.
What do you think?