Issue 23 June 5th

lol no

You're missing the point. I'm saying that what the end of the story we got isn't necessarily the same as what was planned from the very start. Tyrant fell, yes. But don't believe that the end was always written like this or the path of the story was followed to the letter.

The devs have been on record saying fans were displeased with the praetorian story so they're wrapping it up. That right there says that plans didn't go as originally laid out.

The basic plot points have always been the same - GR sets up the various loyalists AVs and the different tools used by them to maintain the loyalist dictaorship, like the BAF, TPN, Keyes Island reactors and so on, and then the Trials provide the conclusion to their storylines, with the final part being fought in the exact same place that Praetorian players first arrived at in GR.

I'm pretty sure that they actually said that some fans didn't like the story, but that it was going to be wrapped up soon

If the real world was Praetoria, I'd be infiltrating the dictatorship as a Resistance spy

You are right, and that's the problem. In lvl 1-20 Praetoria, it doesn't mean a damn thing what you choose, you are still going to end up a Hero or Villain, and still end up fighting Praetoria. I am not arguing the writing of the story. In reality, it had to be written that way just from a sanity and logistical standpoint, regardless of how much I may have wanted to create a character that fought for Praetoria. What I am suggesting is that it would have been smarter to allow players to remain Praetorian up to level 50 and THEN have all the story lines funnel towards "Cole is evil and, for the good of the people and/or your own survival and gains, you must defeat him and his regime." Bam, you are right there, ready to start the Praetorian Incarnate Content, rather than leaving Praetoria behind for 30 levels (which go by a LOT slower than the first 20) and only having two TFs (one on each side) that pit you against Praetoria.

The part that is lame, to me, is not that my Praetorian character will have to fight Cole regardless of what alignment I choose at the beginning. I get that. Rather, it is that I have to say, "Wait right there, don't move, I'll be back in 30 levels." It's like if we could go through Wincott, Flux, Julius, and Talshak (the Hollows story line), but then had to wait for level 50 before we could attempt the Cavern of Transcendence Trial.

We have had this argument. I feel, firmly, that they failed a well crafted and nuanced start by turning it into a cliched mess.

I firmly believe they have done far better work, and have been nothing but disappointed with the Praetorian story-telling on the whole. <-- My opinion. I am not alone in it, but that hardly matters.

No, you are about as juiced up on enriche as you can get.

Aren't fascist dystopias always a cliche?

I don't do drugs

But that would need a sharper turn to the right side by the loyalists - by making the turn at a lower level, it avoids having them heiling Tyrant at level 49, then smashing the dictatorship at 50.

Praetoria now extends to 40, and the turn to the good side by the loyalists is softer than if they'd left it to 50.

A level 45-50 arc would be no sharper a turn for the Loyalists than the level 15-20 arc we have now. In fact, the turn would arguably be more gradual. If there was an option to go all the way to 50 as a Praetorian alignment, it could (and probably should) be written in such a way that that final arc would be "the straw that broke the camel's back," since there would be an extra 25 levels of content that could gradually reveal Cole as a tyrant.

Night Ward is 30-35, not 40. And the events in First Ward and Night Ward, while referencing Praetoria proper, have very little to do with that story line.

All I am saying is that there were two incentives to starting a character as a Praetorian: one was, well, being a Praetorian, the other was being able to start any regular archetype as any alignment. The latter incentive disappeared just over a 1 year after its arrival with the addition of i21. The former incentive technically still exists, but again, it only applies up to level 20, before you become just as much a hero or villain as any other character.

With no real incentives existing any more to roll a character as Praetorian, save for RP/personal story reasons, what is to become of Nova Praetoria, Imperial City, and Neutropolis? With Cole being defeated, and the Devs shifting their attention to the arrival of Battalion, it seems to me like they will just remain there, as empty as Boomtown. Which, given how much higher their visual and writing quality is over Boomtown, is an utter shame.

But I guess that's my opinion.

35, Golden Girl. Night Ward only goes from 30-35. Small level range but given how leveling slows a bit by then it's much more sensible than First Ward's originally planned 20-25.

Also, First and Night Ward hold no relevance to previous loyalties in Praetoria. Loyalists have to fight IDF and DUST, meanwhile Resistance end up fighting... Resistance as Calvin Scott goes into full blown villainy. ("What's that? The Forlorn want to make their own way in life instead of being strapped with bombs and sent to blow up hospitals? KILL THEM TO THE LAST FOR THIS SLIGHT AGAINST US!")

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

Really? I'd a need a citation of where the devs came out and said that.

Either way, for "not going as planned" it seems to be wrapping up fairly nicely, at least with the Magistarium Trial and i24 wrapping up the loose ends.

No it's not. They just fixed a bug that one-shotted Tyrant, and a game-crashing bug was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Something tells me that we were suppose to fight Praetorian Hamidon (the Underground trial suggests we would atleast take him on) prior to fighting Tyrant but since, as mentioned, the devs felt that people were fed up with a storyline that has been dragging on for three years now (IIRC), that they axed Praetorian Hami and are skipping straight to the end.

While heliping the Resistance in the survivors' compound, and working with Vanessa DeVore to help strengthen the Resistance and its allies.

Er, no. The Eltentowners and Carnival of Light are 'its allies' but far from the Resistance itself. Vanessa is the only prominent member of the Resistance, being it's mother. But it's very clear there's a big big disconnect among the groups and they're not all one and the same.

1.75 years. Going Rogue/i18 launched in August of 2010.

As far as I am concerned (thus, my opinion), the Devs misinterpreted. Yes, there was/is a group of people that was/is fed up with the Praetorian story line. But I think the majority of people that had complaints about it were annoyed more so by the focus on the Well of the Furies than on the Praetorian story line itself. That, and that we had already fought the Praetorians in Tina Macintyre's arc and Maria Jenkins arc. And defeated them! But now they are back...?

That may just be my opinion though.

You'd be a praetorian. You wouldn't know you were doing drugs

It's almost as if the humiliation of the defeat of his toughest henchpeople and rescue Statseman showed him just how dangerous Primal Earth was, and encouraged him to seek out a source of cosmic power to make his henchpeople stronger and his enemies weaker, while building a huge army of war robots to launch a full scale invasion of Primal Earth.

Tyrant's plan was actually pretty good - he just didn't count on the Menders being able to travel to the future to see the result of a loyalist victory, and then start helping the Primal Earth heroes gain Incarnate power to fight the invasion.
If Ramiel and Prometheus hadn't shown up, the loyalists would have won.

I'd be mentally protected by Vanessa DeVore, so I'd just play along with the loyalists while I infiltrated the dictatorship

Vanessa DeVore's dead.

Desi has the mask, which still holds some ov Vanessa's mind

Actually, you can PuG in Croatoa and Striga because people can enter that zone and work with the contacts there (heroes and vig.). The 1-20 Praetoria experience is an epic failure and those zones are a ghost town.

i23 is far from exciting. I thought we'd be getting full knight costume pieces as shown by the Knight NPC but we're only getting some of that? Again, we're deprived the coolest parts for some odd reasons...who knows why...

I guess the new chat for free players will better allow teaming as will the SG membership. Not much other excitement from the issue. Hopefully we don't get much more Praetoria. The devs would be best served if they took opinion polls more often than not. Might get better issues that way.

I usually get the mailings two-three days after I have downloaded the patch and seen it on the launcher

If we dont get to fight Praetorian Hami then Cole was right. We gave that world to the creature.