Issue 23 June 5th

I really wish that they decide to add them in as normal arcs so I can do the story. There's just no chance to stop and explore on a trial.

You're not alone.

I didn't say it failed from the start :P

It hasn't failed, period

There's been regular Praetorian content since GR, constantly expanding the Praetorian storyline and building it up to its logical climax where we finally smash the last of the loyalists and their evil master.

Rikti storyline got intro'd in a grand, epic fashion and then wrapped up in the same issue. Same with Mot and Dark Astoria. Both amazing issues that few complain about. This should've happened with the Praetorian war.

Praetoria failed. The three GR zones are ghost towns, FW really only gets played once then forgotten about, and NW is just more of the same, only with even less quality. The heavy presence it's had on the Incarnate system makes zero sense and feels forced. If Praetoria were a ball, the devs didn't just drop it. They slammed it into the ground.

Pramidon iTrial. And maybe Genesis.

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

Kinda hard to give all the loyalist AVs a suitable beating in just one Issue

Maria Jenkins has been doing it in 1 arc for years.

I had about a half dozen different responses come to mind upon reading that, but right now I'm too tired to do more than muster a tired laugh and a muttered "Yeah right."

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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Not with Well-empowered loyalist AVs - a dimensional war between cosmic superpowered armies needs more than 1 Issue to cover it

Yeah no

The rikti invasion was a point of several arcs from the start of the game untill issue 10. lets be fair about things here. furthermore, mot is a singular entity with limited influence, not an entire other dimension. Some people liked praetoria and some dont and little rational discussion is going to change minds because its a question of preferences, but i have to strongly disagree with you that the build up for praetoria was an error. its not for everyone and nothing will be, but it was a workable vehicle to get a lot of mechanics into the game and worked well for what it was, and it sure as heck was better than the old praetoria stuff which was basically got to a bunch of context free recycled environments and fight one off mook squads. they are mid level zones, people tend to move on. you cant exactly call up a pug in coratoa or striga any time you want either. they served their purpose as well as any new zone does, if you have an event, you can often get people, I have been on a few seed hunts on liberty, far from the most populous server, and really if the communtiy finds things to do they stick around, if not, they go through, just like striga, just like nerva.

A few issues ago us Mac users couldn't even play and it was released...

What Ironblade said.

*throws up hands in frustration*

That's an opinion. I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing, just saying.

I do, however, have to disagree with this. If this were the case, there would be some way for Praetorian-started characters to remain a Loyalist or Resistance alignment past level 20, or at least exclusive arcs in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles (tied to the Agent of Praetoria badge) that allow them to complete tasks for/against Praetoria along their journey to 50. Also, to have most of Praetoria's defeat confined to iTrials or TFs like Apex and Tin Mage II (that really need the Alpha slot and thus VIP access) screws over any Free/Premium players who have purchased Going Rogue and started as Praetorian. Add that to the fact that we can now start any alignment as heroic or villainous, and people see little point in starting their journey in Praetoria, since they HAVE to end up a Hero or Villain at level 20 regardless! In my opinion, the Praetorian starting option is still salvageable, but there needs to be an incentive there, something a player would not be able to get/do by starting as a hero or villain.



As for i23: I wish I was more excited about the "big stuff" on its way, which frustrates me because I am usually excited for issue releases.

Introducing a brand-spankin'-new zone in Praetoria in the same issue that the Praetorian story line basically ends seems counter-intuitive.

I am not excited at all about the Hybrid slot. I fail to understand how being forced to repeat the same piece of content multiple times over for one power can be thought of as a "good time." And since I detest archetype homogenization, this power really turns me off.

I am very much looking forward to the LFG channel, Quick Travel Portals, Super Groups being available for Free/Premium players, and the Chain Mail and Leather Armor costume sets (more customization options are what I enjoy most). The new Penny Yin TF interests me as well. I just wish I wasn't starting to feel "over" Incarnate stuff.

Again - your opinion.

Others find the whole cobbled-together drawn out mess a completely disengaging failure that has slowly pushed them away from playing.

So it's rushed and drawn-out?

And it's totlaly not cobbled together - they work several Issues in advance, and GR was created along with the Praetorian war storyline - when they were working on the Precinct 5 tutorial, they knew that Tyrant and the loyalists were going to be defeated at the climax of the story.

"Cobbled-together blah blah blah" is, of course, in no way one of those "opinion" things that you hold in such sneering contempt.

Knowing what the ending is and actually making it -to- the ending are very very different things when it comes to writing. Things changes often mid process.

*le sigh*

I was offering a countering opinion, as a tool to emphasize that the previous statement was indeed an opinion and not a universal fact.

I sneer not. Neither opinion is 'wrong', just not the undeniable force of nature as one is sometimes portrayed.


Where did I say rushed?

It is completely cobbled, from the early presentation of Praetoria to the end.
Knowing the completion and telling a story that was compelling are two differen things.

That's not how the 1-20 story was written - it was written so that by level 20 everyone would either be fighting the dictatorship to free then people of Praeotria, or looking for ways to expand their own personal power - that's why the moral choices in Praetoria don't actually have any effect on your alignment until you hit 20, and even then, it doesn't have any effect on the oucome of the war, as everyone is fighting Tyrant.
GR was written with the knowledge that no matter what chcoies were made, every player would be lined up against the dictatorship once the war started - that's why there were parts of the story where they had to railroad players into picking the right side, like the confrontation with Tyrant at level 20, where the player text is written to make them hostile towards him, even if they've been heiling him for the previous 19 levels.

The Warden path is the correct path through GR, as it has the smoothest transition to blue side, and the smoothest continuation in first Ward.
Next is the Crusader path, which has an almost equally smooth transition to Primal Earth as an anarchist int he Rogue Isles, but runs into problems in First Ward, as Calvin Scott and his Crusaders are portrayed there as enemies, with no option to side with them.
Third is the loyalist power path, which also has major probelms in First Ward, as there's no selfish options there to increase your own power, and the transition to Primal Earth also assumes that the character is intelligent and patient enough to play a long game, and start over as an Arachnos minion to work their way up the ladder in the Rogue Isles to a higher level of power, instead of continuing to exploit their improved postion in the loyalist dictatorship.
Last is the responsibility loyalist path, which has no support in First Ward, or in the transition to Primal Earth, as their one reason for going, the prevention of the invasion, is undermineed at once by the Admiral Sutter TF, which starts at exactly the same level as they arrive in Primal Earth.

All of this is the natural result of GR being written from the start with the end result of the war already known to the writers - which meant that all the loyalist choices were ultimately always going to just be window dressing, as the real focus was on the Resistance, as that was the path that was designed to lead to the dimensional war at the start of the Incarnate storyline.
They still did an awesome job with the depth and variety of the GR story arcs, but the meta-story always meant that the loyalists were born losers.

It's almost like GR was a teaser to eventually encourage VIP subs

I'm pretty sure that the Magisterium Trial counts as making it to the end of the storyline

If it's cobbled, then it's extremely well polished, joined-up and consistent cobbling

Both of which they did at a higher level of quality than anything previously done in the game.

I simply find it ironic that you are just about as LOYAL to the Devs of this game (with your unwavering position that they can never do wrong) as the "evil" LOYALISTS of Praetoria are to Tyrant.

If the real world was Praetoria you'd be the top distributor of Enriche...