How do you keep a copyrighted name?


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And Mercury is the Roman God of flower deliveries making him the perfect symbol for FTD Florists.


 

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Originally Posted by TheJazMan View Post
I've had a number of toon names genericed. The names included Sentinel, Wildcat, Apocalypse and a number of others. I was told it was NC Soft policy this would happen. Then I just learn a guy has been running around with a 'copyrighted' name and it was OK by the powers that be? How does this make sense?!?! I am really wondering why there's such a double standard going on here. Can anyone help me out? I sent in a ticket about this and was told they cannot reveal such info.

The name the guy was allowed to retain is that of a well known Greek God.
For starters, the name itself isn't copyrighted, it's trademarked. And, in this particular case, the fact that it's taken from Greek mythology means it can't really be trademarked. So, the name itself would probably be allowed to slide. In combination with a costume design that looks like the Marvel character, however, there would likely be a problem. Especially if he wields any kind of hammer and has lightning powers. ( Mace/Electric? )




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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Before Tolkien revived it?

Before?



Are you serious?

You do realize Tolkien published his books back in 1954 right? And Dungeons and Dragon was using orcs since 1974.
You realize that the word predates BOTH of these sources, right? The world did exist before 1954, as did fairy tale monsters and magic.




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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJazMan View Post
I've had a number of toon names genericed. The names included Sentinel, Wildcat, Apocalypse and a number of others. I was told it was NC Soft policy this would happen. Then I just learn a guy has been running around with a 'copyrighted' name and it was OK by the powers that be? How does this make sense?!?! I am really wondering why there's such a double standard going on here. Can anyone help me out? I sent in a ticket about this and was told they cannot reveal such info.

The name the guy was allowed to retain is that of a well known Greek God.
In answer to the question in the title: If the name and/or appearance and/or powers are under trademark or copyright by another you can usually keep the name by getting the permission of the rightsholder(s) to use it in game. You may still have to jump through hoops periodically with an overzealous GM, but it's really as simple as that if you're imitating someone else's character.

Or you could make an original character that uses an original or public domain name and/or concept.

Or just resign yourself to occasionally being genericed if either of the previous options is not acceptable to you.


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Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
In combination with a costume design that looks like the Marvel character, however, there would likely be a problem. Especially if he wields any kind of hammer and has lightning powers. ( Mace/Electric? )
You are aware that the original, mythical Thor also had a hammer and was the god of thunder, right? Right?


 

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Hello everyone, I can't say what decisions the GMs have made regarding the OP or even their thoughts on my character the Mythic Hercules. Unlike others experiences shared here, CS did not have a sit-down with me over my character. They only communicated to me that any appropriate action has already been taken, if any action was taken at all (it's not the kind of information they're at liberty to provide). It was extremely brief and formal, and probably entirely copy/pasted.

But at the end of the day, and then the week, Hercules was still on my roster. Works for me. I'll never know how CS feels about Hercules; only that they've decided to let me keep him. That's a big deal in my book. But do characters like Hercules create headaches for CS? Thinking about the things that Chase Arcanum wrote on the matter, this incident has made me that much more respectful of Paragon Studios. So I sent them another message:

Fair and responsible use of the public domain wins a victory today; I'm relieved to see Hercules available on my roster for play. I'm writing to say thanks, and to reassure CS that Hercules will never stray from a likeness in origin and imagery based solely on (a) The 12 Labors of Hercules, and (b) Paintings and sculptures from Greek, Roman and Post-Renaissance art, something my research showed that comics publishers have avoided in the interest of pursuing a stronger trademark for their adaptations. Rest assured, my likeness of Hercules bears no likeness to any of those properties. As a professional writer and creator myself, I take this subject very seriously. But I also know that if the day comes when ordinary people cannot participate and share (responsibly) in the public domain within digital spaces like yours, a terrible precedent will be set. I posted pictures of Hercules and his bio in JazMan's thread in General Discussion ( http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=290059&page=3 ). (If you also would like to visit Hercules in-game to inspect his likeness and bio, let me know and we can agree on a time when we can both be online.)

I got a thanks in reply.

One of the reasons why works go into the public domain is so that we can become participants in those tales in order to keep them alive, and some authors, such as H.P. Lovecraft and even J.R.R. Tolkien, expressed their strong desire to have this happen to their works after they died (Tolkien's estate had other plans, of course).

But because likenesses can be trademarked, this privilege is also a responsibility. Further research will often reveal that many public domain characters have had a life outside of their original works already.


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Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
You are aware that the original, mythical Thor also had a hammer and was the god of thunder, right? Right?
Yeah but the "Mythical Thor" was only 4' tall and had a ballpeen hammer that he used to kneecap people that talked down to him.


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Yeah but the "Mythical Thor" was only 4' tall and had a ballpeen hammer that he used to kneecap people that talked down to him.
Wh-what? No he wasn't.


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Yeah but the "Mythical Thor" was only 4' tall and had a ballpeen hammer that he used to kneecap people that talked down to him.
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Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
You are aware that the original, mythical Thor also had a hammer and was the god of thunder, right? Right?
True. *Shrugs* But it could easily be pushing his luck to go that far with it.




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Marvel Thor looks like a Mace / Invulnerability Brute anyway (with the Lightning powers provided by an APP, though there isn't one in game for Brutes, with the Mu Mastery PPP being the closest thing).

That said, I do remember playing with a Thor-alike a few years back (before the movie). He was an Electric/Mace Tanker (since this was before you could make heroic Brutes), and he wasn't named anything close to Thor. (But the costume and powers made it obvious enough)

I had a point when I started this post, but I've forgotten it along the way while I was reminiscing.


 

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The OP is in the position of someone pulled over for speeding, who's berating the officer writing him a ticket and DEMANDING to know why they didn't pull over any of the other people who are clearly going MUCH faster than he was.

There is no way that this can lead to a satisfactory result, unless the OP's only intent is to vent, complain, and/or whine.


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Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
The OP is in the position of someone pulled over for speeding, who's berating the officer writing him a ticket and DEMANDING to know why they didn't pull over any of the other people who are clearly going MUCH faster than he was.

There is no way that this can lead to a satisfactory result, unless the OP's only intent is to vent, complain, and/or whine.
Well it's true that they're going much faster now that he's been pulled over. Although it's more like he's complaining that some of the other speeders are doing it legally because they bothered to get a permit to drive in a higher speed limit lane and he wants to know why he can't do the same thing without bothering to get a permit. (Which is sort of mixing the Autobahn and US HOV lane metaphors, but i'm comfortable with that.)


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If the un-genericed "well-known Greek god" is Apollo, DC would probably love to sue you but they can't for reasons mentioned repeatedly by others. Ditto Marvel and Hercules but he's Roman. Yes, I'm pedantic.


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I'm just happy that since coming back I haven't seen another garbage clone of a 40k Space Marine or Halo Spartan. It's the little things that matter.


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Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
True. *Shrugs* But it could easily be pushing his luck to go that far with it.
Original Thor is fairly easy to set apart from Marvel's though.

First of all, red hair and a long beard. His armor is what you can get closest to 1000bc era viking armor. Basically, wait for the chainmail set and combine with with some Barbarian pieces.

His hammer, Mjølner, does not shoot lightning. It does always return when he throws it, though and it packs a mean punch. To create thunder and lightning, Thor rides his chariot pulled by two goats across the clouds. In other words, not really something you can make in the game.

He is incredibly tough and resilient, and a brave warrior. That's pretty much his role in the pantheon, the guy they send out to "settle" things. It's why he has those awesome tales.

So, if you wanted to make a vanilla Asa Tor for the game, I'd say you want an Invul/Mace (Hammer) Tanker. You'll lose the throwing of the hammer, but you still get tough warrior with a powerful hammer. Oh, and do not expect him to be friends with any Dark Control or Beast Mastry character over level 32. He is destined to die fighting Fenris, a giant wolf that will eat the sun at Ragnarok. So big unnatural looking wolves? He won't like that.

Of course, Thor in particular is a very dangerous ground to walk on, since Marvel's variant is one of their big characters.


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Originally Posted by khorak_EU View Post
I'm just happy that since coming back I haven't seen another garbage clone of a 40k Space Marine or Halo Spartan. It's the little things that matter.
I've seen one Spartan that made me smile: "Halo Kitty", a green MJOLNIR suit with ears and a tail.

(checking the screenshot, that was "the legendary armored Halo Kitty", with a badge title of "Chief" )


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
You realize that the word predates BOTH of these sources, right? The world did exist before 1954, as did fairy tale monsters and magic.
Not relevant. My response to the person I quoted was directed at his statement that implied that Blizzard was using the word in question before Tolkien revived it in his works. I never argued that the word didn't exist before 1954.


 

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Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
You are aware that the original, mythical Thor also had a hammer and was the god of thunder, right? Right?
Well, in this case, Marvel has trademarked a specific appearance for a character, separate from the name "Thor" but this, IMHO, is where Marvel's biggest problem with their Lawsuit could have rested:

They trademarked a specific likeness for many of their characters (and even used that trademark in the upper corner of the comic)... but then they started adding specific artists' variations of the characters, their costumes, their color schemes, etc, that NCSoft could have taken the "nuclear option" against them- arguing that since Marvel varied the "likenesses" so much, they destroyed any distinctiveness in the process... something trademarks required.

--
Anyway, again here, we get confused when we talk about powers. Trademark is about likeness. It doesn't matter if your big overmuscled shirtless green giant wearing purple pants is a superstrength brute or a mind controller. He's still a trademark violation.


 

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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
Well, in this case, Marvel has trademarked a specific appearance for a character, separate from the name "Thor" but this, IMHO, is where Marvel's biggest problem with their Lawsuit could have rested:

They trademarked a specific likeness for many of their characters (and even used that trademark in the upper corner of the comic)... but then they started adding specific artists' variations of the characters, their costumes, their color schemes, etc, that NCSoft could have taken the "nuclear option" against them- arguing that since Marvel varied the "likenesses" so much, they destroyed any distinctiveness in the process... something trademarks required.
Something I am sure hurt Marvel's case was the Marvel-authorized clones made by people working for Marvel.

City could of made a move for the right to use Marvel's IP (somewhat) with the EULA being as it is.


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Funny brain exercise.

Let's say an artist over at Marvel Comics is playing City of Heroes one day and spots my Hercules character running around and says to himself, hot damn!

A year later, a character who looks exactly like my character shows up in a Marvel comic book. I buy the comic book at my LCBS and see my character running around with Spidey and Iron Man and I say to myself, hot damn!

It's just a brain exercise. I'm one of the Marvel Universe's biggest fans. I don't think this will ever happen. Marvel Comics knows better and with all their awesome talent, they don't need to copy anything.

On with the exercise, I report the IP violation to Customer Support, under the assumption that all content that is created on NCSoft's servers belongs to NCSoft, not Marvel Comics.

Does NCSoft/Paragon Studios:

A) Generic my character for infringing on Marvel's newly trademarked copy of my character

B) File a Cease and desist

C) Do nothing

D) Do nothing, but prepare a legal response in case Marvel files a cease and desist letter


Something like this could happen if a smaller independent comic book studio artist copies a character he runs across in a super hero MMO. If something like this happened to one of our City of Heroes characters, what would we be able to do in order to protect our creations inside of NCSoft's servers?


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Well, technically, Marvel already has a Hercules.


 

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I know, he made a stand-in for the Incredible Hulk series (The Incredible Hercules) and also had some AWESOME scenes in Civil War--I haven't followed his adventures too much outside of those appearances, but he was a big part of Agents of Atlas and has a nice big fan following.

But back to the brain exercise, I think you misunderstood me, which is my fault for not distinguishing between name and likeness. If you want to get super technical, well, this isn't a realistic scenario at all. Imagine if the likeness of my character replaced Marvel's likeness for Hercules, even if it was just one artist's "adaptation" in a limited run of issues. How would that turn out after I reported the situation to CS?

This might work better if you extrapolate beyond Hercules and imagine one of your characters being lifted by some artist at a comic book studio. What would you do? How do you imagine NCSoft might react?


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