What if we removed faceplanting?

Off the wall idea here. More of a thought exercise.

What if we removed faceplanting from the game?
I don't mean that nobody could ever be defeated.

I mean changing up the pose for defeat.

I've noticed that recently there's been a number of missions where you fight a NPC and then you're given a choice to spare them or strike the finishing blow, etc. At that point they're on their hands and knees on the ground. That is the pose I was thinking of substituting for.

Why?

Well I've been meditating on the nature of "defeat" in this game. It doesn't represent death, or near death. It doesn't even necessarily represent being knocked out. You'd have to be conscious, because you're making a decision to "tap out" and go to the hospital or wait for a rez. Also, if you were truly out cold, no amount of will power would "Revive" you, for example. Defeat as faceplanting makes some assumptions about your character that, from a RP standpoint, may not be true. Defeat is just your character faltering, for whatever reason.

Another reason is, and this may sound petty, faceplanting is kind of humiliating. I've read a bit on the psychology of game design, and if a player is frustrated because they "died", the wrong kind of death animation can only exacerbate their frustration and in extreme cases, you could be looking at a rage quit. Think about it: if slot machines laughed at you when you lost at them, would anyone play them?

I'm just thinking, if we changed the faceplant to something else, would it change the way players felt about defeat? I figured it warranted a discussion at least.


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If they did ever decide to change it, they could make it so that we were "out of action" for 30-60 seconds, using that collapsed-to-your-knees emote they use for NPCs we defeat but don't knock out - rez/revive powers would still work normally, and the time penalty until we recovered on our own would just be there to replace the trip to and from the hospital/base and the 2 loading screens it uses.

purchasable defeat emotes

robots could do the power down
ninja's could disappear in a puff of smoke
jedi could just leave a cloak behind

It's an interesting idea, not all defeats are equal, after all.

However, there are a few reasons why faceplanting is a good pose for defeats in the game, some game design related, some story related.

First of all, flat on the ground is a very easy to recognize pose for being KO'd. There's no real ambiguity here, a character flat on the ground and not moving is out of the fight. Easy to read, easy to understand. A character kneeling is... maybe out of the fight? Can I heal them? Can the enemies still attack them? If they can't attack them, why not? It's an uncertain pose, full of maybes when reading it. For something as important as being defeated, it really can't leave much doubt.

So while I'm not against changing the defeated animation, it still needs to be snap readable for new players, and "on the ground, not moving" is really, really hard to beat for "out of the fight". Now if there was a 5-10 second near-defeat status where you could still be healed, but couldn't act? Yeah, a kneeling animation would be perfect for that. But we don't have that. 0.1 HP is fully active, 0 is instantly defeated. Or Awakens could be changed to use this animation when getting back up. You're back, but weak. It'd be a fitting pose for that.

Lord knows this game is too hard as it stands. Maybe there's time to convince the devs to add -defeat to the -kb IO?

Not a bad idea. On the other hand, there's something fun about the indignity of lying on your face bemoaning things,

I've suggested this before. I called it "death emotes," but the idea was similar - let people choose the animation they undergo when they die. Off the top of my head, I had the following:

Explode: When defeated, your character explodes, leaving only a defeat marker behind that can be targeted. Used for robots who explode on defeat, heroes with unstable powers and so forth. How you can come back to life after exploding is up to the player to explain.

Weep: Your character breaks down, drops to the ground and starts crying, possibly using the /em grief emote. Used for pyschics who lose control of their powers, insane people who lose their minds or characters who can't die but can still be "suppressed."

Run away: Your character becomes scared, then turns around and runs out of the game, leaving targetable defeat marker. Useful for cowards, obviously, as well as characters who don't lose, but rather make tactical retreats.

Hibernate: Your character locks himself within a structure of ice, rock, fire, armour or anything else ubrekable as a defensive mechanism, and will not return to the fight unless "healed." Useful in similar situations as regular Hibernate.

Concede defeat: Your character crosses his arms and refuses to participate in the fight any longer. Useful for characters who play by unconventional rules, such as bored immortals holding back their full power and playing defeated, or otherwise stubborn fools who refuse to help their allies when they don't feel like it.

That's all I remember.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I like this and Sam's ideas (I think I posted in Sam's thread when he proposed it.)

But personally I already find this game too easy so maybe another level of difficulty could be added to the defeat - optional of course - that allows you to decide how "badly" beaten you are and the ramifications of that. Maybe there could be a trade off with greater rewards, XP or shards etc.

On the other hand it's adding a whole extra few levels of complexity to the game that could take up an awful lot of resource for limited benefit, so I won't be holding my breath

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

I'd like a replacement for the mid-air defeat emote, where my character flings around wildly like a rapidly deflating balloon before settling down gently on the ground.

I like the idea.

But I am concerned.

Without regular floor level inspection, we will be faced with a "rise of the dustbunnies" of epic proportions.

Actually I really like this idea. Lord knows it actually does massively annoy me when I 'die' in the game. I agree with the psychology of it, and I agree with just the sheer cool fun of it. I have characters I'd like to go into elemental 'hibernation', and I know that all my Khoraks would like some kind of 'tactical withdrawl'. Not fleeing (which should also be available, because I have characters for that too!), but more the idea of being 'forced back' momentarily.