Not sure if you all saw, but...

The only rationale required.

Yep. Because there's no precedent whatsoever.

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awesome.

It doesn't require precedence. There's no precedence that radiation DOESN'T protect from psychic attacks. Radiation Armor will set precedence that radiation used as armor does, in fact, protect from psychic attacks. Unless you can find a canon contradiction, precedent is being set by the existence of the set.

I mean, seriously, we're talking about what would be a good defense against an *entirely fictional* form of attack which has no real-world physical reality. Seriously? WTF?

Maybe you don't like the idea of Rad Armor protecting against psychic attacks, but lets face facts that this argument is entirely about your aesthetic preferences here, not because of any kind of sound reasoning.

That's like saying "That's effective against electronic batteries, not electric currents!"

Where the heck do you think psionic energies come from?

What do you call Psionic Damage Resistance if not a "block"?

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

Nope. She loses access to her psychic abilities while she's in diamond form.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

Both Regen and Invuln have Dull Pain. Why even bother with Invuln?

Broadsword has Parry. Why even bother with Katana and Divine Avalanche?

Electric has Power Sink, why even bother with Fire and Consume?


If that's your line of reasoning, why not simply condense all defense/resist sets into one set called "Armor" and be done with it?

Absurd you say? Why yes! Yes it is! And it's the logical culmination of your own argument.

Rad Armor is going to be a "defensive" (not "Defense") set. Because of this, it's going to share some commonalities with other defensive sets. That means that some parts of it are going to look like other sets. How it creates its own niche, in the end, will be up to Synapse (and some player feedback).

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Yes, because if someone has metal control, they can control the metal in the batteries, not the energy inside the batteries. Just because one can manipulate the mind doesn't mean one can manipulate what the mind has given off. Deforming synaptic connections in the mind of a psionic user has nothing to do with mental attacks already thrown at you.

The point was EMPs don't 'disrupt' psionics. Static Shield builds up synaptic connections with electricity because the set is Electric Armor. It's directly fortifying the mind from neural attacks.

And she becomes immune to psychic attacks, was the point.

Because Regen is a heal/regen set and Inv is a resist/def set. They're not the same.

Because Katana is better. Forget ugly broadsword unless you want to use a Shield...then they are functionally different...

Because Fire has lite-resist and more offense. Fire's endurance management is the least similar point of the set.


You're a liar if you think I said absurd.

Don't be a liar, liar.

But the concept is largely covered. What concept of Radiation Armor cannot be covered by existing sets so absolutely warrants a new set for it? Perhaps, however, after more info is release it actually will be someone different from existing sets enough to not be a waste of time.

It was a close call Ace but I managed not to take off into orbit. Really quickly I'd like to thank all who participated in the event it was great to meet all of you in person, as well as have so many players join the quest for Radiation Armor/Melee.

It was really awesome to take part in process which will bring Radiation Armor into the game. And appropriately enough it was Rangle that got the call to make the case for the power. Good thing he came prepared with his ipad and forum link! Also AlienMafia was there helping add fuel the the Radiation fire as well as Hyperstrike, Bo', Calli, many many others. Again, my thanks to everyone! This is one Power Set I've been looking forward to (and pestering the Devs about) getting for years. I'm glad to see so many other players wanted the set or at least liked it enough to make it our first pick at this years Power Set Design Workshop.

Also of note should be that Radiation Melee, although not the first or second choice was towards the top of the list. In fact there was a brief slip/typo as the Designer (sorry I forgot the Dev's name who got the honors of running the spreadsheet) acidently put Radiation Melee as the title of the set, then corrected it to Radiation Armor. I'm guessing that Rad Melee is also on their minds.

I don't recall, due to lack of sleep and my usual mental distractions - Oh, look squirel!!- But was energy and/or Toxic talked about as an Auto power at one point? I noticed that Knockback wasn't initially included in the set, and it would be nice to have, but I could live w/o as long as we get the set.

Sheesh.. I can't hardly wait for the set... "Is it ready yet???"
"Take my Paragon Points, please!!!"
"Not on Beta yet???"
"Dang......"

This statement doesn't really make sense. You are essentially saying that a subset of energy (dark energy - whatever that may be) is opposite to energy (a general umbrella term)

This needs clarification because dark energy cannot be the inverse of energy, because energy will include dark energy because its an umbrella term.


Yes and no.

Yes because it is kinda a current of sorts but this is inaccurate because it doesnt quite work like your statement implies you think it works.

Basically messages travel along our synapses on things called 'Action potentials'. Essentially the synaptic membrane works based on a difference of charge between the outside (+ve) and the inside (-ve)

Essentially sodium (or calcium depending on the tissue and type of synapse) floods in and due to its +ve charge, depolarises the membrane causing more sodium channels to open further down the synapse.

This is our transmission.

Also I would like to add that alot of our nerves are covered in an insulating layer of fat called myelin that will protect the impulses somewhat from outside interruption.

But the power itself is functionally identical.

Cosmetics.

Still a functionally identical power.

And you were essentially "griping" about a power because it was more or less functionally similar (not identical) to something granted by another power set.

Rad Armor looks to become sufficiently differentiated from Elec that there will be concrete reasons for taking one or the other.

Try rereading what I said. I basically asked a rhetorical question "Do you think my examples are absurd?"

Please stop looking for fights and learn to deal with things like an adult.

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LAWL!


in a better world than ours, that would be /thread.

Because blanket statements are always right, huh?

That's the thing about them though, is they're there for convenience not correctness. It's the same with any catalyst that is used to power any work that creates an effect and is possible to create one energy from another.

However that's not how dark energy works in CoX. Technically dubbed Negative Energy (but someone else mistyped it and I was just copying it), it's not 'dark energy', it's 'Netherworld energy' which has to be channeled from another dimension which has their own creatures completely comprised of the stuff. It will never be the same as regular energy and seeing how the game is set up (powersets using energy as protection generally have diminished protection to negative energy and the opposite for negative energy protection) they are opposites.


Yes, I realize the transmission between the synapses is chemical reactions, that was what the handwave was for. Apparently, if you can cover your body in electricity like an Elec Armor character can, you can also use the power to create similar internal reactions just like a battery. But it's easier to cut the explanation as they're still charged reactions.

Despite the illogical disconnects you may be making with those statements (even if DP is the same for both, those sets use it to completely different ends, one magnifying their regeneration and the other magnifying their resistance, that practically any weapon will mainly come down to cosmetic differences and that Power Sink is nothing like Consume since one is auto-hit and does no damage while the other is a wide-area AoE attack), one point you're glossing over is...those sets are issue 1 sets (or 1st CoV issue). Not only have they been in the game since the release of the ATs, but none have special gimmicks added to enhance their gameplay. They're hinging straight on their concept for what functionality they have. There's no need to copy the concept of another set to fulfill the added functionality of another set.

So you were just blurting out a group of words you heard that didn't make any sense? Because no one was pointing at your examples and making any judgements until you demanded them to be with a rhetorical. But to answer the rhetorical anyway, yeah, it is absurd because it has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Those other examples? They're already been made, tested and implemented. The topic I'm discussing? A powerset's concept who hasn't even been touched or even agreed upon yet. There's still room to make it not functionally electric armor + absorb.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove here. You're only pointing to a character, not really giving a reasoning why crystals would block psionic attacks.

Basically, you've just done a "because it's in comics" excuse. But you seem opposed to a "it's comic books" reasoning for Radiation Armor.

It's cool if you have an opinion and all, but at least don't contradict your reasoning behind it and insist that everyone else is hand-waving and wrong. Just don't play the set if it's offended you so much.

And if your argument is that Rad armor already has plenty of mitigation not to need Psi res, you should at least wait until numbers come out to make that claim. For all we know, those mitigation methods might be low.

No matter it's origin, Negative Energy is still a form of energy. It ENERGY from darker origins. Energy created by Radiation is different from Electric Energy, or (just plain) Energy. It was created from different methods. So any effects Radiation has are completely up to the development team to decide and will not contradict anything established in the game. The only reason there is no precedence is because it's never been used before. There's no precedence to the counter, either.

You may prefer that there is, and you're completely able to, but the development team is completely able to say otherwise. With no precedence for anything, anyone can make up the rules as they see fit on the subject. The dev team, naturally, has a bit more authority in regards of what rules are made.

As for the business of Rad Armor being too much like Elec Armor, lets do a side-by-side comparison:

Rad armor vs Elec Armor
Smash, Lethal, Toxic resist - Smash, Lethal, Energy resist
Fire, Cold, Neg resist (maybe Energy?) - Fire, Cold, Energy, Neg
Mez and psi resist - Mez and Psi res, Rech resist, speed resist
Those three might be considered the same. If you like to stretch facts and ignore that most resist sets follow the same pattern.
Auto regen/end recovery (More recovery when health is high, more regen when health is low) - Click heal with regen and end discount.
Functionally, these aren't close enough to be the same. They're just the closest in my opinion between the sets.
Click absorb power - All new mechanic. Nothing to compare.
Taunt aura, foe minus damage - Taunt aura, damage
Nothing alike.
Click foe -HP self heal - Click heal, also the closest for comparison again. Also nothing alike.
Self nuke attack - Electric's self nuke. Ooooooh wait....
T9 meltdown mode ending with self destruct - God Mode with crash. God Mode powers aren't specific to Electric, and if they were, this one doesn't self destruct. So we'll call this a mismatch, too.

I don't see enough similarities to support your claim. Sorry.

I guess you didn't read the context of what I was responding to and disregarded the way I answered it.

Radiation, electricity and plain energy do not have a different damage type though. And Negative Energy isn't energy 'created', it's 'summoned' or 'channeled'. The means to which it is spawn is a mystery locked in the dimension it's pulled from. It isn't a form of energy that exists in this world, as set by the lore of the game.


Right, because one isn't just the same thing +1. So far, that's what your comparison mainly shows...Rad Armor is Electric Armor +1.

I suggest you ACTUALLY take a look at Dull Pain in Regen and Invuln before spouting this crap.

Both of them are Self-Heal +Max Health (Which affects regen rates).
Neither of them do a single damn thing to affect Resistance.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Regeneration#Dull_Pain

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invulnerability#Dull_Pain

No. Making a point that you're arguing that you're putting forth an only slightly less (and less intentionally) ludicrous version of the selfsame argument.



Yet you proceeded to try and dissect them anyhow. Then when you got slapped down for missing the fact that they and the rhetorical question were solely designed to point out the silliness of your own argument, you continued to argue them anyhow and try to simply roll over it.

Bravo!

No. "You" fail to recognize that the argument itself DOES, in fact have something to do with the subject at hand.

You're arguing the two sets are too similar, based almost entirely on a single power, therefore there's no reason for the newer set.

I simply tossed that broken logic back in your face.

Nobody really likes having that done to them. So I can see why you're being nasty about it though. It doesn't mean I'm going to let you simply continue pretending you have some moral, philosophical or logical high ground here.

You don't.

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You mean when you responded to me saying that I found Radiation Armor having more likelihood of resisting Psi than Crystals? I get the context. I'm telling you your answer had no weight.

Pretty sure at this point I'm just being trolled. But would you care to explain how 3 out of 9 power being similar is "Ela +1".

My Radiation Armor doesn't have resistance to turbolasers, only photon torpedoes. ****!

I would like to point out...based on your logic that negative energy is energy from darker origins...radiation energy is the same, just from "radiation origins". Negative energy channeled from another dimension that acts differently from regular energy cannot be inherently any different than energy spurned from a radioactive reaction like nuclear fission/fusion as they would both behave differently and offer different properties. For example, while negative energy has a draining effect to it, so does radiation. However, these 2 forms of energy cause different effects, or side effects, while doing the same thing...would negative energy cause an EMP? Would radiation counter balance positive energy effectively negating it like negative energy would? The answer to both is clearly no, however, the end result is the same.

Additionally, Energy from radiation is used as electricity daily. Ever hear of a nuclear reactor? So your argument that radiation energy is dissimilar to electricity is actually stretching the truth far more than the concept of energy from another dimension behaving differently from the energy found in our own world.

If you are going to use Energy to encompass all forms of energy as an "umbrella" or blanket term, then you are self defeating in your attempt to differentiate between Dark/Negative and Radioactive energy. In this case it would benefit you to agree with him as it makes your point more valid. Instead of trying to be devil's advocate, while contradicting your own assertions.

Uhm, radiation isn't turned directly into electricity. It's used to create heat, which in turn creates steam from water. That steam is used to turn the turbines and so forth. They don't just hook a plug up to some uranium and turn on lights that way.

Radiation is completely different from electricity. Both have energy, that is to say, both create heat and exert force on other things, but they create their energy in uniquely different ways.

But we're getting off topic. There's nothing to say in-game that radiation can't interact with psionic energy. So there's nothing thematically wrong with a rad armor set having resistance to it.