Is there a point to anything but fire?


Aneko

 

Posted

The "point" to anything other than fire goes beyond just effectiveness and is surely the reason we play games in the first place; for fun and entertainment. I have a number of blasters and corruptors with a range of different primaries that have nothing to do with their raw performance and everything to do with how much fun they are to play.

For example, I have a sonic / electric blaster called Megafone. He's at level 44, and I haven't played him in a while because he does tend to be a bit squishy solo. Maybe thats because of the way I play, maybe the build is less than optimum. Maybe it's even because Sonic performs less well with Elec than other sets or combos might. I don't care - defeating your enemies by shouting at them never gets old.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
Fire: Has the best AoE damage
I really wouldn't say that.

Fire has Fireball, RoF is situational (With many drawbacks including long recharge), and Fire Breath sucks. Oh and the nuke has so many drawbacks I skip it entirely.

AR or archery probably out AoE fire by a factor of 2 or more.


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AR and Archery T9 are nice. Better than most nukes considering the recharge and end drain.
This still have average/bad DPA, Firaball alone is just crazy good. Like I said the best AoE would be imo AR/TA but considering the powerset alone Fire is supperior due to higher DPA.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primantiss View Post
However, it's an easy out if the devs ever feel the need to change RoF's Scourge.

Judging by how Defender's got a watered down RoF, the Blaster-level damage on other Rain Powers might also be considered a bug.
I consider it a bug, considering most psuedopets are usually adjusted for AT. Even Trip Mine got reduced damage for Defenders (but not Masterminds, womp womp).

Having said that, though, I think it's so low priority that it will be awhile before it's ever addressed.

Quote:
What about he upcoming water attack that functions like a Rain power, does it use the proper AT damage mods?
I haven't checked, but I would assume so, since there's a different psuedopet for each AT.

Strange little issue, though, Water Blast now shows up on City of Data, which means it's in the current Live build as a playable set, but players just have no way to get it yet. The issue is, while most of the set is there, the Whirlpool pet is mostly... not there.

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...rlpool_Blaster
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...lpool_Defender
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...pool_Corruptor

Whoops.


Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

 

Posted

Even with Rain of Fire being bugged. It's still an extremely long DoT. Yeah, it's potential damage is quite impressive....

...too bad it's rare that it actually gets to do it's full damage. I again point out that this is the exact reason moves like Ball Lightning are simply 'meh' to most min/maxers or people who scream 'moar damage'

Meh, I guess it's just personal taste. Fire's AoE is Average simply due to Fireball to me if not less than stellar unless you have tons of +recharge (then we're splitting hairs).

Fire is over rated. It's extra damage is still in DoT form and thus it's usefulness is is questionable. If you like it, you like it but don't try and say that it is the de-facto bestest set evar you sound ignorant when you do.


Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

 

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Fire's really good. If you feel like DOTs are bad, though, it's not the set for you.


 

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I24 Water: Damage, Controls, Heal, Ranged Nuke.

It douses fire.

ICE may also freeze out fire.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakeeb View Post
Fire's really good. If you feel like DOTs are bad, though, it's not the set for you.
Pretty much this. Do you value "tricks" (debuffs, etc) with your damage? If you do, skip fire blast. If you just want to tear into things and have them "burn" as you shoot them, roll a fire something.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
If you just want to tear into things and have them "burn" as you shoot them, roll a fire something.
Emphasizing this. On a STF this last weekend, my Fire/Kin just concentrated on the AVs, letting the AoE DoTs finish of all minions. (Well, I do have a wee bit of control with the Ragnarok KB proc in my Fireball.) With my softcap Def and Clarion and a fantastic Brute holding most aggro, I didn't need anything more in order to kill them faster.

I'm not so sure about Water Blast against Fire/ toons that have access to a heal. I'll be interested to see one in play and judge for myself.


Current primary characters, all on Guardian:
The Amber Fist (Elec/Stone Tanker) | Pixelbeater (Fire/Kin Corr) | The Sequencer (Bots/Traps MM)
Blakkat (Claws/Dark Brute) | Mhogus'thra (Ill/Dark Cont) | Wyldhunt (Beast/Dark MM)

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post
Fire is over rated.
Over rated as in has been able to farm +4x8 since forever...That's not over rated...maybe you meant something else?


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Honestly fire has a great appeal to it, many of the great Flavor of the Month's have had Fire Blsat... Fire/Mental Blasters, Fire/Cold Corruptors, Fire/Dark Corruptors, and many, many more I'm missing. I guess the answer to your question is yes, there is a point to non-fire blasting toons. Secondary affects pretty much covers it all.

If you go Electric you get some solid End Drain and a pet. It's cool to play an Elec/Dark as a corruptor and have up to 3 pets with your Mastery, and up to 5 if you pick up Lore.

Sonic obviously offers great control and resistance debuffs making each attack do more damage.

Ice blast's Blizzard is probably the best nuke available to Corruptors because it benefits most from scourge, and as targets die the new ones that walk into the patch they're damaged by it's affects while most other nukes just drop the intial targets. It pairs really well with the Ice Storm in Ice Blast and other rain type powers. (Sleet or Freezing Rain)

Rad Blast is a very powerful set as well, often underestimated. Has 2 really solid AOE attacks, you can perma stun a boss, and every attack lowers your enemies defense significantly (often helpful for kins who need accuracy for their powers)

Dark Blast's -ToHit, self heal, and control makes it very powerful many people are even able to tank with Dark/Dark Corruptors as Dark/Dark Defenders do.

Obviously there are many more options but these are just a few reasons to pick powersets other than fire.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Most_Amazing View Post
Ice blast's Blizzard is probably the best nuke available to Corruptors because it benefits most from scourge, and as targets die the new ones that walk into the patch they're damaged by it's affects while most other nukes just drop the intial targets. It pairs really well with the Ice Storm in Ice Blast and other rain type powers. (Sleet or Freezing Rain)
Blizzard is also a rare Corruptor tier 9 that actually Scourges for full damage. Most only Scourge for scale 1 damage.

The nuke changes in i24 will probably end up nerfing the heck out of it, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
Blizzard is also a rare Corruptor tier 9 that actually Scourges for full damage. Most only Scourge for scale 1 damage.

The nuke changes in i24 will probably end up nerfing the heck out of it, though.
Storm powers getting fixed to their appropriate damage scale...
That's an evil thought. Probably true, but an evil thought.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadey_NA View Post
Storm powers getting fixed to their appropriate damage scale...
That's an evil thought. Probably true, but an evil thought.

Whelp, I'm probably gonna get shot for posting this, but here-goes!


At this point it needs to be done. There's too much discrepancy now between newer and older 'storm' powers.

Why should Water Blast be the only Corr set that uses the proper AT modifiers for its 'storm' pseudo pet?

Why should Corr Fire Blast get Blaster-level Rain of Fire, while Defender's version doesn't? Yet Defender's Ice Blast gets a full Ice Storm and Blizzard.

While they're at it, they should fix all pseudo pets.. Give Brutes a proper Shield Charge, Scrappers too. Scale Trip Mine/Time Bomb properly on MM/Corruptor Traps. Look into Domination effecting stuff like Volcanic Gases, Tar Patch should be best on Defenders, etc etc.

All this pseudo pet business is a huge mess now and reeks of lazy game design. It gives legacy sets advantages or disadvantages, depending on which way the pendulum swings.. In my humble opinion it needs to be sorted out, and has for a long time.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primantiss View Post
Whelp, I'm probably gonna get shot for posting this, but here-goes!


At this point it needs to be done. There's too much discrepancy now between newer and older 'storm' powers.
I agree. All of the rains should be corrected to use their correct AT modifiers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primantiss View Post
While they're at it, they should fix all pseudo pets.. Give Brutes a proper Shield Charge, Scrappers too.
This part of it has already been done, unless you account for the much lower pseudopet damage cap that prevents Lightning Rod and Shield Charge from being as strong as similar damage attacks that don't use pseudopets in the presence of damage buffs (often ones of similar magnitude as Build Up for Brutes due to Fury).

I specifically commented on Shield Charge (and Stalker Lightning Rod) when the Tanker and Scrapper versions of Lightning Rod were created stronger than the Brute version with the AT modifiers in mind during proliferation while all versions of Shield Charge and the Stalker version of Lightning Rod were equal to the Brute version. I wasn't expecting them to buff Shield Charge, but they did. Then they turned around and nerfed it a year later, saying it was too strong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primantiss View Post
Whelp, I'm probably gonna get shot for posting this, but here-goes!


At this point it needs to be done. There's too much discrepancy now between newer and older 'storm' powers.

Why should Water Blast be the only Corr set that uses the proper AT modifiers for its 'storm' pseudo pet?

Why should Corr Fire Blast get Blaster-level Rain of Fire, while Defender's version doesn't? Yet Defender's Ice Blast gets a full Ice Storm and Blizzard.

While they're at it, they should fix all pseudo pets.. Give Brutes a proper Shield Charge, Scrappers too. Scale Trip Mine/Time Bomb properly on MM/Corruptor Traps. Look into Domination effecting stuff like Volcanic Gases, Tar Patch should be best on Defenders, etc etc.

All this pseudo pet business is a huge mess now and reeks of lazy game design. It gives legacy sets advantages or disadvantages, depending on which way the pendulum swings.. In my humble opinion it needs to be sorted out, and has for a long time.
This is a huuuuuuge can of worms that's being opened up, but I don't think you can just state lazy game design. This game's been out for many years and design portions have come and gone many times over.
Some decisions were made after the fact to smooth over exploits that were found by the player base. Case in point, Voltaic Sentinel. It was a power that gave elec blast too much of an advantage over other blast sets due to being able to have multiple ones out at a time. Unfortunately, setting it so you can only have one out at a time has turned Elec blast into one of the least popular blast sets in the game.

I've seen players quit over single changes in this game. You all know this is delicate business for there to be so many things attempted at one time.

But Primantiss, I won't hit ya... I won't hit ya... like h*** I won't. Hmmm, i should make a Beam Rifle char named McClintock.


 

Posted

Well, with the snipe change, AR now gets great ST damage to go with its great AOE damage. It will give fire a run for its money and maybe even surpass it, assuming you can keep your +tohit high enough. I liked AR even before, can't wait.


 

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Well with the patch notes for I24 it looks like the pseudopets are being corrected, which will take Ice out of the picture.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Well with the patch notes for I24 it looks like the pseudopets are being corrected, which will take Ice out of the picture.
Yeah. I haven't checked to see if the double-value Scourge is still there in Rain of Fire, but the patch notes report that Ignite (it's called Burn in the notes), Ice Storm, Rain of Fire, and Blizzard are all adjusted downward. The good news is that Rain of Arrows was listed as being slightly buffed.

I'm not trying to say that it shouldn't ever have been done. I'm just going to be sad about it... and probably eventually whine a lot for buffs to Ice Blast, since Blizzard was my favorite nuke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

I made my Fire/Cold Corruptor instead of a Defender because of the unfair Blaster values in Rain of Fire for Corruptors, even though it meant giving up the self heal proc in the Defender set and waiting till 35 to get my double rain with Sleet.

But, I still think its good that these adjustments are being made. I didn't like making that decision at that time. And I doubt I'll really notice the slightly lower damage from one power to be honest. Sleet-Rain of Fire will still rock.