Why are NPCs defining my character's age?


DarkGob

 

Posted

I don't know if this bugs anybody else, but ... one of the "rules" of roleplaying (and this is a roleplaying game) is that you should never mandate what other characters are thinking or feeling or how they react to something. For example:

Wrong:

"I punch you in the face, and you scream in pain and crumple to the ground."

Right:

Character 1: "I punch you in the face."
Character 2: "I scream in pain and crumple to the ground."

Now, I'll make allowances for game mechanics necessitating letting the game describe how my character physically reacts to things, like if my character gets hit with a knockback and fails to resist it, she falls down, or if she takes enough damage she's "defeated".

But this can and should be avoided in ordinary dialog with NPCs. IMO there is absolutely no justification for an NPC telling me anything about my character beyond what can be physically observed and verified (and if they do know other things about my character, there should be an explanation for how they have this information — "According to the Vanguard files on you..."). Specifically, I find it extremely annoying when Twinshot (and later, Maelstrom) keeps calling my characters "kiddo". Sure, when my characters first meet Twinshot, they are "novice" heroes and she's a more experienced hero. But "novice" =/= "young". Yeah, most of my characters are young. But some of my characters aren't. I have a few human characters who are clearly older than Twinshot. I have some characters who are aliens, whose ages Twinshot cannot possibly guess. I have some Magic-origin characters who are members of "fantasy" races, whose ages Twinshot couldn't know. My petite, fairy/elf-looking brute with the cherub wings could be an immortal who is thousands of years old, and only looks seventeen because she doesn't age normally. And while I don't have any robot characters, I could make one, and that robot would certainly not be a "kiddo" (or an "old man", either, for that matter). Just the simple fact that the character creator has "Older Faces" options should make it obvious that not every character is going to be young, and therefore NPCs making age-specific comments about player characters is inappropriate.


 

Posted

Listen, kiddo, just because someone calls you "kiddo" doesn't mean they're saying anything about your age.

(see what I did there? )

In all seriousness, kiddo != young. It can be used that way, or it can be used the same as any other term like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Yes, this bugs me too, seeing as my main is ninety-three years old.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashToo View Post
Yes, this bugs me too, seeing as my main is ninety-three years old.
Considering Twinshot's personality, I'm pretty sure she'd be much more likely to call a 93 year old "kiddo" than a 12 year old... especially if she thinks it'd bug them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
Considering Twinshot's personality, I'm pretty sure she'd be much more likely to call a 93 year old "kiddo" than a 12 year old... especially if she thinks it'd bug them.
It would be less bothersome if it were just her.


,'&#
{}... .-
01234
"*_
?;!hgfauirebcew

 

Posted

Although the game is guilty of assuming things of player characters in plenty of places, this is clearly not one of them. You're a fledgling hero when Twinshot addresses you, it makes perfect sense for her to call you kiddo. (Mind you, this is still pretty awful and really borderline insulting writing, and actually makes Twinshot a less likeable character than Statesman, but that's beside the point.)

Fortunately, the devs seem like they've started to realize this and have inserted exceptions into dialogue, WWD7 being a good example (Lady Grey casting a spell so you can breathe in space, unless you don't actually need to in which case never mind I guess).


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

There's an old curmudgeon in Praetoria who calls everyone "Kiddo" too, and I found it less insulting from someone who was obviously an old man himself (and probably called everyone "kiddo") then when Twinshot did it. The further I got in her "story" though, it seemed to me that she may have an association with that old curmudgeon, and it bothered me less at that point.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCreation View Post
There's an old curmudgeon in Praetoria who calls everyone "Kiddo" too, and I found it less insulting from someone who was obviously an old man himself (and probably called everyone "kiddo") then when Twinshot did it. The further I got in her "story" though, it seemed to me that she may have an association with that old curmudgeon, and it bothered me less at that point.
I wondered about that. Maelstrom is also an "escaped"' Praetorian as well, no?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
Although the game is guilty of assuming things of player characters in plenty of places, this is clearly not one of them. You're a fledgling hero when Twinshot addresses you, it makes perfect sense for her to call you kiddo.
No, it makes sense for her to call you "rookie". "Kiddo" carries a connotation of age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Rik View Post
I wondered about that. Maelstrom is also an "escaped"' Praetorian as well, no?
Maelstrom is a Primal who has sided with the Praetorians.


@Roderick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
No, it makes sense for her to call you "rookie". "Kiddo" carries a connotation of age.
It can carry a connotation of age, but is often used with no regard to age. Hell, the only person I've ever known to call other people "kiddo" was younger than me... and called me "kiddo" as well. I'd say it's far more likely to carry a connotation of implying you're less experienced, than actual age. And even then, it can be used merely as a term of endearment, with nothing more implied.

When a term can be used multiple ways, why are you intentionally choosing the one way that it could conflict with your RP? You're a creature of indeterminate age/93 year old man/jello-o/etc being called "kiddo" by some youngish punk soldier type... obviously she wasn't implying you were younger than her.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Saying kiddo is like saying boy. As in "dats mah boy Charname". It doesn't' literally mean you're a kid


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
When a term can be used multiple ways, why are you intentionally choosing the one way that it could conflict with your RP?
Because it's the most common, most obvious way of using the term?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Rik View Post
Because it's the most common, most obvious way of using the term?
Hey kid!


Am I implying you're a child? That IS the most common, most obvious way of using the term! With a little thought, you can realize maybe that's not how I'm using it! If you're going to try to immerse your character in the dialog, you need to actually apply a little common sense to it.


(I knew another guy that would always call me "kid"... again, older than him... but he was weird and Chinese... likely more so the weird thing than the Chinese thing)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Eh, I never took Twinshot's use of "kiddo" as anything more than a playfully affectionate nickname for the rookie on the team, born out of her having been in the military and being used to talking to rookie soldiers that way. It seemed to say more about her personality than anything about my character.


"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Hey, babe, calm down.

No, I'm not saying you're an infant!
So you're calling them a talking pig who plays baseball?


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
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Posted

Hey Kiddo


However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
If you're going to try to immerse your character in the dialog, you need to actually apply a little common sense to it.
Common Sense playing an MMO? You sir, should know better.


 

Posted

Quote:
I have a few human characters who are clearly older than Twinshot.
Question to the OP. Let's say Twinshot were an Incarnate and several thousand years old. Could she call you "kiddo" then? And would the game have any obligation to inform you of that fact right out of the tutorial?

There are several characters in CoH who are significantly older than they appear: Lady Grey, Dark Watcher, Lord Recluse, Hero One. You seem to have made the same assumption that you ascribe to the game. Twinshot looks younger. Her Praetorian counterpart certainly looks like a kid too. But like we eventually find out with Calvin Scott, Tyrant, and others, there may be more under the surface.

EDIT: I have this habit of calling small children 'sir' and 'ma'am' or using Mr. or Ms. and their last name. Many kids get a kick out of an adult addressing them this way and I can often get a giggle. Am I defining their age? It's not like Twinshot said you were 36 years old. She just used a term of endearment. Don't take it personally. She's kind of a PITA.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

I have to say I agree with the OP. Kiddo does imply age, dispite how people apparently seem to be using it. Regardless, Twinshot, to me at least, comes off as an annoying twit.
But back to the broader point about CoX writting. I do think at times they do tend to over step a bit. Enter a mission and it may tell you that you feel uncomfortable in the confined space. Really? Maybe you had previously decided your character (for whatever reason) loves caves.
So it is one thing to say it is a dark and confined space. It is altogether another thing to tell me how my character feels about it.
This I think is more to the op than a debate over the word kiddo.




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Posted

I only like being told how I feel when it's a psychic attack.


In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Question to the OP. Let's say Twinshot were an Incarnate and several thousand years old.
Serious question, since I'm still relatively new to the game and I'm not yet up on how the Incarnate system works: Can a level 5 character be an Incarnate?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Rik View Post
Serious question, since I'm still relatively new to the game and I'm not yet up on how the Incarnate system works: Can a level 5 character be an Incarnate?
No you can't be an incarnate until lvl 50. NPCs do not follow the same rules as PCs though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Rik View Post
Serious question, since I'm still relatively new to the game and I'm not yet up on how the Incarnate system works: Can a level 5 character be an Incarnate?
Yes. A player Incarnate cannot be, but an NPC Incarnate or Immortal (there are some immortal characters that have not been identified specifically as Incarnates) can be of any level.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.