Pay To Win: Performance Shifter
By
Angry_Angel,
Posted on: 2012-03-08 11:34 in The Market and Inventions
Why do you assume this isn't a bug?
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Quote:
Because the enhancement clearly says 3 times per minute, which works out to 50% when put in a passive (which checks every 10 seconds, or 6 times per minute).
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Why do you assume this isn't a bug?
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Hold on.... current proc gives a 20% chance for 10% end every 10 seconds in a passive, right?
So normally it fires off once very 50 seconds on average.
Your average works out to 14 procs every 5 minutes.
5*60 = 300 seconds / 14 = 21.4 seconds per proc
...
3 times a minute.
WTF. Are they seriously selling for real money better versions of enhancements than we can get in game? Really?
No, surely Paragon Studios wouldn't stoop this low.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Its why I think this may be unintended. Maybe send it politely to synapse for feedback?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Hold on.... current proc gives a 20% chance for 10% end every 10 seconds in a passive, right?
So normally it fires off once very 50 seconds on average. Your average works out to 14 procs every 5 minutes. 5*60 = 300 seconds / 14 = 21.4 seconds per proc ... 3 times a minute. WTF. Are they seriously selling for real money better versions of enhancements than we can get in game? Really? No, surely Paragon Studios wouldn't stoop this low. |
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
I'm not sure how unintended it could be if the enhancement text describes exactly what the enhancement is actually producing.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
I literally did a double take when I saw 3PPM on the enhancement (I was checking out SATO enhancement values so I can spitball my brutes build without needing mids, so I figured why not?) and thought "Nah, it can't possibly mean it procs 2.5 times the regular version in stamina... right?" and then I opened a second build with stamina and started timing.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I'm not sure how unintended it could be if the enhancement text describes exactly what the enhancement is actually producing.
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The first result I was unimpressed since it went a full 70 seconds before procing, then it proc'ed every 10 seconds for a minute and my heart (or maybe wallet) sank. The "worst" result was a 37% rate - almost DOUBLE the existing value. I did two more and got more than 50% rates and called it and came here to extoll the virtues. I'll PM Synapse I guess at this point.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Quote:
Hey all. This is an unintended benefit. I'll take a look at this today.|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
I literally did a double take when I saw 3PPM on the enhancement (I was checking out SATO enhancement values so I can spitball my brutes build without needing mids, so I figured why not?) and thought "Nah, it can't possibly mean it procs 2.5 times the regular version in stamina... right?" and then I opened a second build with stamina and started timing.
The first result I was unimpressed since it went a full 70 seconds before procing, then it proc'ed every 10 seconds for a minute and my heart (or maybe wallet) sank. The "worst" result was a 37% rate - almost DOUBLE the existing value. I did two more and got more than 50% rates and called it and came here to extoll the virtues. I'll PM Synapse I guess at this point. |
Regards,
Synapse
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On one level, this makes me very happy - yay, no pay to win!|
Originally Posted by Synapse
Hey all. This is an unintended benefit. I'll take a look at this today.
Regards, Synapse |
...on another level, boo, I would have bought a dozen!
I wouldn't be super confident that will stay like that. That seems pretty obviously wrong given that Stamina and things like Quick Recovery are some of the only places to slot Performance Shifters that let it work correctly. Given that, the math equating how the store bought and in-game versions should work is pretty straightforward.
The in-game version is the equivalent of a 1.2 PPM rate. I do think there should be some added value in the store bought version, since you're paying proxy money for them, but that difference seems a bit much.
Edit: Scooped by a Red Name. (SBARN!)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Phew! Thanks for saving me money I was going to buy a buttload when I got home from work!
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Originally Posted by Synapse
Hey all. This is an unintended benefit. I'll take a look at this today.
Regards, Synapse |
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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I grabbed 5 each of the proc and the End Mod on Tuesday when they hit the market. I may grab more of the End Mod because the scaling as we level is actually pretty nice for my sub 50s.|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Just checked the paragon market version of the performance shifter proc - it's set to three procs per minute, or a 50% chance per tick (I ran three 5 minute tests and got 11, 17, and 16 procs after 5 minutes or 30 proc checks (37%, 57%, and 53% respectively).
I don't know about you, but I'm gonna pick up a few dozen of these things while they're 50% off. |
I alreay had quite a few of the procs for my characters over the years.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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This is one of the first things I slot into any new characters. Miracle +Recovery at level 17, and PF +End at level 18. I generally add a Numina +Rege/+Recovery at 27, as well. |
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I alreay had quite a few of the procs for my characters over the years.
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Still not buying any in the store because I'm just too filthy rich with in-game money to bother spending real-world money on it.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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How about boosting the non-paid version to match?
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Originally Posted by Synapse
Hey all. This is an unintended benefit. I'll take a look at this today.
Regards, Synapse |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Why? It's already pretty comparable (on average) to slotting a Miracle unique. What reason would they have for wanting all of them to be 2.5 times better than that?
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
How about boosting the non-paid version to match?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
They better pull this one off the market because I don't think it is going to go well to change what people have already bought. At least it cannot transfer off an account.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
THey cant very well let some people sit with a bunch of enhancements that are better than anything else anyone can get.
Thats just asking for trouble
Oh if you bought a bunch in these 3 days, you are elite and everyone else is scrub and can never reach you.
That has NEVER went over well in any game.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
I actually bought one (not realizing it was superior) because it was in my build anyway, and it really surprised me how awesome it was. Sad to see it get nerfed... rather see the regular version get buffed.
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I think they are better off to pull it off the market and sell a corrected version. If they change something people have already paid for they are opening a horrible can of worms. |
Originally Posted by VKhaun
I actually bought one (not realizing it was superior) because it was in my build anyway, and it really surprised me how awesome it was. Sad to see it get nerfed... rather see the regular version get buffed.
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Remember the description on the IO actually says it will fire approximately 3 times per minute. Now if it is broken and firing more than documented, then they can fix it without any valid arguments but if they actually change it to not fire 3 times per minute then they open themselves up to a lot of trouble.
This is the problem with selling us particular goods rather than just the subscription service as it was before the market.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the PPM rating supposed to be the "limit" of how fast the proc can work, not the actual guaranteed amount? I thought the 3 ppm value was just a ceiling for the proc, and it was actually supposed to proc about as fast as the in-game one did. Only if you slot this into some click where you could get a lot of activations per minute did this 3 ppm rating actually factor into anything.
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Originally Posted by Synapse
Hey all. This is an unintended benefit. I'll take a look at this today.
Regards, Synapse |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
No, the percent chance of the proc is simply calculated based on the recharge of the power you slot it into, as well as other factors like target cap, AoE size, etc.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the PPM rating supposed to be the "limit" of how fast the proc can work, not the actual guaranteed amount? I thought the 3 ppm value was just a ceiling for the proc, and it was actually supposed to proc about as fast as the in-game one did. Only if you slot this into some click where you could get a lot of activations per minute did this 3 ppm rating actually factor into anything.
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
It is not limited to its displayed number of procs per minutes - that is representative of the average number of times it will proc over a minute if you use a single-target power every time it comes off recharge. You can still "get lucky", roll high numbers on the under-the-hood dice, and get many more than 4 procs in a minute. Its just that instead of a flat 20% chance to proc (which gives higher proc uptime per minute to a power that can be used more times per minute), the chance of proc'ing is now variable with the recharge (and other special factors) of the power that you're enhancing.
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Having overpowered legacy items is worse than a bait and switch manuver.
The only realistic solution is a correction of the item and an automated refund of points to everyone who bought it
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Honestly, my spider-sense has been tingling ever since I read that description of ppm procs. Something about it "feels" wrong, but I have no evidence to support that feeling. Besides, of course, the obvious problem that recharge time is not the same thing as cycle time.
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
No, the percent chance of the proc is simply calculated based on the recharge of the power you slot it into, as well as other factors like target cap, AoE size, etc.
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I'm more weirded out that it is oblivious to recharge slotting. I mean, I get why that is probably true from a computational cost perspective, but it seems funky to me that you can slot something in a power that will result in a proc chance based on the base recharge, and then use that power 2-3x more often than the base recharge, getting 2-3x higher PPM.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Honestly, my spider-sense has been tingling ever since I read that description of ppm procs. Something about it "feels" wrong, but I have no evidence to support that feeling. Besides, of course, the obvious problem that recharge time is not the same thing as cycle time.
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I'm not complaining, mind you. I'm just ... surprised.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I think I've completely missed something here. From the sound of some of your posts, it's been known for a while that the enhancements sold on the market would be superior versions of those we get in game?
Be well, people of CoH.
Just checked the paragon market version of the performance shifter proc - it's set to three procs per minute, or a 50% chance per tick (I ran three 5 minute tests and got 11, 17, and 16 procs after 5 minutes or 30 proc checks (37%, 57%, and 53% respectively).
I don't know about you, but I'm gonna pick up a few dozen of these things while they're 50% off.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm