Pay To Win: Performance Shifter

Well, sir, that I can get on board with.

How dare you?
Halved the value? They destroyed the value. If they think a positron/lockdown/all-hold SBE proc is competitive with an ingame proc and has a value to pay for it, if not for the PPM mechanic, it is like saying the wall is green when it´s red.
I can´t trade it, i can´t swap it onto the other account. And the ingame proc is so common, even the most casual gamer could get it without much effort ingame. So i bought something that was treated WAI and now it is inferior to the ingame products. Same with the purple proc. You can slot it at 50 in both cases. But shouldnt you need it anymore (for example when the whole proc system (old and PPM) is destroyed, at least you can trade it.

They obviously made their decision.
They have their principles, i have mine. So, it is fine. They will live without me as a customer, and i will live without the feeling to give someone money when i only see the € or $ in their eyes.

(once again, i think the "nerf"/alternation/whatever to the PPM mechanic is justified, but the way all the last decisions regarding the market were done, i just can´t justify to pay them 1 cent anymore).

We don´t need to raise the whole thing to a metalevel of descriptive justice or morality. It´s easier: I pay A for a good feeling. If i have no good feeling anymore, i go to B ...or to my couch ;P

Is it still ragequit when my head doesn´t turn red and i don´t shout at my monitor? ;P
Call it upsetquit and we are fine.

To be fair, I asked if it was WAI as far as pay to win was concerned - If I got a greenlight, I would've bought a dozen or so Performance Shifter procs.

Actually I was surprised I got an answer so quickly.

I'm more upset about the 90% proc cap being floated in the proc change thread - I *DID* buy that lockdown proc for my Soul Storm power with the understanding it was WAI at 100% proc rate.

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

We all did

They knew full well 100% proccing was possible and they knew this before the fandom knew, when they advertised the system to us they told 100% proccing was possible that we could add 100% recharge enhancement to that and add an additional 100% global recharge on top of that and still be at 100%. That's what they advertised though the have no intention of honoring that or restoring point purchasses
Got Bilked?

Clearly we disagree I say they promoted/advertised a system you seem to have a different opinin; it is what it is It's ok for you to be tired of it; that is your right, but i'm saying and will say for sometime that "they advertised it and changed on me" furthermore "handled it poorly" is a gross understatement they have every ability to make it right but there infinitely more concerned with retaining profits and not setting inconvenient precedents

Yeah......

Yeah..... There are no software limitations to giving me my points back, your really grasping at straws there Iron

Oh, and you KNOW how the software works? No, you don't. But my point is that this might not be automated - not that it isn't possible under any circumstances.

Automated? I petitioned for a refund making this a rather manual process and was refused one by each gm in succession, the last one being pretty smarmy on top of that.

Not once did a gm suggest the software couldn't do it due to a software limitation and since I know of a user who accidentally doubled up on a costume pack, petioned for a refund and got one I know for a fact they can be done. Please stop making excuses for these people

The refund is the easy part. The hard part is reliably deleting all of the enhancements that you bought from whatever characters you claimed them on. Not the same thing as a double purchase which didn't actually unlock anything extra.

Or, you just don't bother deleting them. You can simply say "It is your responsibility to delete the enhancements for which we have processed a refund", and then don't worry about it. Customer service time to delete, or dev time to develop an automated process = lost money. Allowing someone to just keep an enhancement they already have costs you nothing. A digital sale like this has a marginal cost of zero.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just saying something when I see BS posted.

You posted this:
That's BS. You don't know WHY they are doing something. You are either assuming, lying or delusional.

Awesome, now I'm to blame/untrustworthy right...

I DO know why the GMs refused they said as much when I spoke to them and at no point did they say their software wasn't up to task. If I told you what they said a Mod may redact my post again and give me a second warning for posting what GMs have told me which is apparentally against the rules.

Not that this will help me in your eyes, but I would gladly email you the entire string of contact between me and them on my petition so pls pm me an email address you don't care about anymore but can still access

There's really only 3 options for us:
1. roll with it
2. unsub
3. not buy any more SBEs

Which one we choose depends on how we view what they did. For me they created a complete lack of trust in them that they will stand behind their product. They messed this up royally. The only good customer service model would be to at least refund a customer's Paragon Points and remove the SBEs from the customer's inventory.

Not only do they not do that, they put out another set of SBEs which people were saying were overpowered.

I guess my point is that you and Uber are arguing over the first time as if this were a one time thing and that's not really what is going on. That they refused to refund your points and they turned around and did it again shows me they lack the character to stand behind their product.

It really doesn't matter what they can or cannot do as much as what they did and continue to do.

2 and 3 for me but since I have 8 months worth of game time cards I'll be around for awhile.

You have no idea how badly I wanted the purple PPMs before they did this to perf shifter I would have gladly traded my money for that performance like I did with the rest of the PPMs but now i'll have neither after i24.

This is a situation that has gone from poor form(Perf Shifter) to bad faith(upcoming ppm nerf)

All i'll say is uber has an opinion I respect that, but I can't abide this

It doesn't matter what a GM said. Firstly, they are notorious for being misinformed. Secondly, they don't set policy.

I've said this before I got up to the head GM. He toed the same company line as everyone else Phil/Synapse says it was "bugged" and now it is fixed therefore I don't get a refund

Who does? Z says the dev team doesn't and for all things market related go through customer service which are the GMs. The GMs have the power, and are the only people who would be issuing refunds and they used synapse's choice of words to deny my justification for one

My main difference from possibly either you or Cheetatron is that I had, I suppose, a low bar for how this situation would be handled if it came up. Of course,, I don't view it as that low a bar, though I don't think it's high, either. I think I set my bar somewhere rather conservative, and I view your bar (that they issue refunds) as a pretty high one. (That's not a bad thing, but high bars are harder to hit.)

All that said, I think it's worth adding that they missed my bar by an obvious margin, even though I set it a lot lower than you seem to have yours. See, I expect them to sell things, have to change them sometimes, and offer no refunds when they do. I do not expect them to sell things, make a pending change ("nerf") announcement that only a fraction of their customers will see, and then continue to sell the product that will be changed some fairly significant way down the road. That doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. It sets them up for pissed-off customers and makes them awfully easy to ascribe money grubbing motives to, whether that's really what's going on or not. Neither of those things seem like smart things to do from where I sit. IMO, they either need to stop selling PPM pieces with the current specs or post a much more clear and easy-to-find announcement of the pending change.

Right, he decides whether it's bugged, WAI, or whatever.


The GM's implement policy, but don't set it. The devs create the game, but don't decide how it's operated. A broad policy regarding refunds would come from NCSoft corporate.

So the distinction is how many people are aware of the change?
Systems in an MMO get nerfed and buffed on an ongoing basis. That's their nature. If they nerf a power in the Staff set, do they need to offer refunds? If they know right now that they are going to nerf it, do they need to pull it off the market in the interim?

The answer to both questions was in the same post you pulled the quote from. I don't think either was particularly buried or obscure, so why are you asking, when I've already given the answers?

I wouldn't mind that, they shouldn't either. If they remove staffs desirability so much so that a given player no longer wants to have access to it then so be it, give a points credit so that the player can spend those points on something else and remove access to staff and all toons using that set. Most people wont return it because they still enjoy it or for concept reasons. It's about customer satisfaction which should be strove for.