You guys need a proofreader.
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-03-07 11:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Seer Marino. That bug still exists, and even more recently the same thing occurs in one of Sister Solaris's missions.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
The bug of the mini-map marker for the one low lvl mission from...eh...forgot the contact name.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
The issue isn't that problems occur, since preventing that wholesale would mean never getting any work done, or very slowly. I understand that.
What gets me is that the text errors in this game never get fixed. Ever. |
You ARE aware that issue after issue after issue after issue of patch notes includes the phrase 'corrected spelling errors for,' right?
The whole post is painfully hyperbolic. What exactly are you basing "these mistakes never get fixed?"
If you don't have time to 'compile a list' of the small issue you're painting to be a major problem, how in the world are you able to, as you just did, authoritatively state that they've never fixed a typing mistake ever?
Hyperbolic, like most of the thread.
PS- You do know when you unsubscribe they have a form that asks you why you're unsubscribing right? How many of those do you think honestly read, "The only problem I have with this game is running into a typo once every few/ several missions?"
Still hate the visit Winscott mission- make it dropable, have it give actual exp or remove it altogether. PS- Down knows who you are.
J/ Wilde/ / AIL - Celebrating five years!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I am extremely disappointed at the amount of hyperbole being expressed
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| Join Date: Feb 2011 |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm sorry Zwill, I think you and the rest of the folks who work at Paragon Studios are the greatest and I still love this game, but this classic excuse of "it would impact more important efforts" is just basically unacceptable.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I understand that viewpoint, and I certainly appreciate that there's a level of frustration associated with it.
It's a matter of priority. Text bugs with powers are higher priority, because the nature of them causes them to be exposed to a higher level of scrutiny. When it comes to updating mission text, or other things which, while annoying, aren't game breaking, we have to ask a simple question: What other task (bug fixing, new content, testing, etc) would we have to deprioritize to allocate the time for the task. Yes, these are bugs, however there are far more pernicious bugs which require more attention, usually discovered during development (bugs are bugs, even if they don't make it to live. You'd be amazed at the amount of bugs we find well before content makes it anywhere near Beta). We fix them when we have time, however I will be the first to admit they are not the highest priority item on our list. |
Here's the "simple question" I would put to you: How much time does it take to run text through a spell-checker? One more time I am not asking for perfection here, but the few seconds it would take to, at the very least, SPELLCHECK your text would easily catch the vast majority of your problems here.
I'm a software engineer IRL with nearly 20 years of professional experience so I believe I have a good understanding of the kind of work environment you and your fellows work in. To suggest that you would have to "de-prioritize" other critical work just to let AUTOMATED editing tools check your spelling is borderline ridiculous.
If you need to come up with an excuse for why you can't handle simple proofreading of the text in your game at least come up with a -reasonable- excuse.
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There are still text errors in launch-day mission content. And by the bulk of players who have gone through them, I can all but guarantee you that every one of them has been reported at least fifty times, yet they're still here eight years later.|
Originally Posted by joshdex
What exactly are you basing "these mistakes never get fixed?"
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I guess that means you're wrong. Now please, let's get back to discussing what can be done about it.
I think that there should be an official sticky thread for reporting typos, like the known issues list, so it could be updated from time to time as new ones were found and old ones were fixed.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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paragno... brb, I have to go make a new character.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
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If you ask me, SSA7 has been a colossal boondoggle, especially for people who primarily play villains (such as myself). Between the writers attempting to cheekily poke fun at co-op mentality (and failing fan-*******-tastically) and the numerous amounts of things that QA seems to have just forgotten to look at ("INSERT BIO HERE", "TEXT", "OBJECTIVE"), I don't think I'll even read the story for the next SSA and just play it for the cool maps.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Of course back to the typo issues; SSA # 7 has quite a few of them in the info description boxes, "TEXT"....really?
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Seriously, the Maps/Costumes/Textures/Sounds team really stole the show this SSA, but the writers really dropped the ball. This whole SSA1 experience has felt like buying a Maserati and opening the door to find the interior is made of decaying foam rubber. Beautiful, functional, but lacking finer details and comfort.
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Dang you beat me to it (contact's name) by 2 mins |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Seer Marino. That bug still exists, and even more recently the same thing occurs in one of Sister Solaris's missions.
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But uh...as far as suggestions on "what devs should spend their time on."
Maybe have some sort of "bidding" in the Paragon Market?
Have diff. categories in the PM, "typo fixes", "mission content bug fixes", "new power set animations", "new power sets" and then have people "bid" on what to do next?
Give the people what they want, what could possibly go wrong?
*semi-serious though*
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And for anyone wondering, one I randomly picked up on in SSA 1.7 - Part 4. Who the HECK is "Black Scoprion"? No one can tell me that a spellchecker wouldn't have picked that up.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.* The thing that has always surprised me is the sheer number of typos and grammatical errors in the game, more than I've seen in all other MMOs I've played combined. It's as if whatever tool the designers use to enter text into the game randomly rearranges some of the letters.
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If it's really a matter of time I'll volunteer to fix every spelling error in the game for free. Just email me the relevant files and I'll get them back to you by the end of next week. I have about 3 hours a day that I can spend working on them during the week, and lots of time this weekend.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
When it comes to updating mission text, or other things which, while annoying, aren't game breaking, we have to ask a simple question: What other task (bug fixing, new content, testing, etc) would we have to deprioritize to allocate the time for the task.
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Edit: Only the English version though, I have a feeling I'd make things worse if I tried to fix typos in the languages I don't speak. >.>
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*!%&! You, City of Heroes Auto-Correct!!!!
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Originally Posted by Creole Ned
It's as if whatever tool the designers use to enter text into the game randomly rearranges some of the letters.
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Possibly from having some that are years old still in game. |
Originally Posted by joshdex
The whole post is painfully hyperbolic. What exactly are you basing "these mistakes never get fixed?"
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| If you don't have time to 'compile a list' of the small issue you're painting to be a major problem, how in the world are you able to, as you just did, authoritatively state that they've never fixed a typing mistake ever? |
Log into game.
Type /bug
Notice one of the categories is, specifically, text errors.
We've been compiling a list for nearly eight years.
And while I expect some typos and homophones to sneak through ("Look out! There escaping!" won't be picked up by a spell checker, for instance,) there is quite an abundance of them in this game - run across frequently enough that it makes the work seem rather slipshod. Which is not the impression I, for one, want the game to have.
Personally, I think the problem is deeper than just text errors. There's a surprising number of other errors that make it out of testing and into the live game that hang out with us for quite a while, and Paragon Studios devotes far less production time for addressing post-release problems than some other studios I've dealt with.
They focus far too much of each developers' time on New Things, in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
Personally, I think the problem is deeper than just text errors. There's a surprising number of other errors that make it out of testing and into the live game that hang out with us for quite a while, and Paragon Studios devotes far less production time for addressing post-release problems than some other studios I've dealt with.
They focus far too much of each developers' time on New Things, in my opinion. |
I would have to agree to some extent. I mean the devs were always talking about "new things" (one of the reasons why revamping an old zone is very rare).
But I think someone at NcSoft has been pushing the "just release it and fix it when you have the time!" mantra a bit too much lately.
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That's not a mistake. He'd Totally Detective Junkers. He'd Detective Junkers so hard you don't want to know about it.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
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But, Zwil, you missed a key part of the real complaint! "You don't care ... as much as they want you to".|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I am extremely disappointed at the amount of hyperbole being expressed in this thread.
They are grammar mistakes. Yes they happen, yes they can be annoying, but statements such as stating we "don't care" are out of line and uncalled for. |
As far as I'm concerned, both Paragon and a lot of the posters in this thread are simultaneously right and wrong. I agree that this thread is, in my not very humble opinion, hyperbolic. FFS, it's text. We'll live, and if you personally won't live to the degree that you have to denigrate the Devs over this problem specifically, I think there's something wrong with you.
On the other hand, I agree with the posters that eight years of this does get old, even if we'll live. Does anyone proofread the text? It sure doesn't seem like it, or if anyone does, they are doing it in a big hurry and not doing a very good job. Face it, your game is a 3D game environment whose story interactions are driven by a text interface. That makes the text pretty important, though not as important as powers or client crashes. You guys clearly do care a lot about the stories, dialogs and NPC interactions, and so do we, so we're letting you know that the presentation of this thing you care about is damaged when someone doesn't at least paste the text into something like MS Word to let it grammar check the sentences. Spend some of the presumed profits from Freedom's micro-transactions on an intern who spends a couple of weeks poring over the text bug reports, or something.
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Except not. I'm one of the people who stopped sending in bug reports when years went by and nothing was fixed, and last I checked all the typos and other errors I've reported are still in the game to this day. It's not a question of the speed with which the problem is addressed, it's that it's not being addressed at all.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
We fix them when we have time, however I will be the first to admit they are not the highest priority item on our list.
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I get that it's a low priority but after years go by eventually these things should bubble up and get fixed. One of the reasons I don't usually bother testing during betas is because I've learned that my bug reports are completely ignored.
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They're not saying that no typo ever gets fixed. They're saying that they PERSONALLY know of typos that have been there for YEARS even after being reported. I also will make this statement from my own experience.|
Originally Posted by joshdex
The whole post is painfully hyperbolic. What exactly are you basing "these mistakes never get fixed?"
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how in the world are you able to, as you just did, authoritatively state that they've never fixed a typing mistake ever? Hyperbolic, like most of the thread. |
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| PS- You do know when you unsubscribe they have a form that asks you why you're unsubscribing right? How many of those do you think honestly read, "The only problem I have with this game is running into a typo once every few/ several missions?" |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
hyperbole
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
hyperbole
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Originally Posted by joshdex
hyperbolic
Hyperbolic |
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
hyperbolic
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
hyperbole
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Coming up next in the thread:
Ad Hominem
Disingenuous
Red Herring
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Seeing as how a lot of the discussion was pretty specifically about whether that term was a valid/appropriate, I don't see your point.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I love when a thread latches on to a term and then beats it for all it's worth.
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American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
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If you call that a discussion, then I understand where you're coming from. Personally, I saw it all as a few people trying to use the word to try and defame my post, while others called them on their assessment. In other words, a pointless argument.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Seeing as how a lot of the discussion was pretty specifically about whether that term was a valid/appropriate, I don't see your point.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Hyperbolic
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I'll just say an "I agree" here.
Typos were one of the things I always put in a /bug report about in betas/in the live environment.
Do the typos get fixed? To be honest, no idea...I don't remember the typos for the most part.
Now there was a bug that has been /bug'd for at least since CoV came out. The bug of the mini-map marker for the one low lvl mission from...eh...forgot the contact name. It's a lvl 8-10 range or so, in Mercy Island...the contact that allows you to learn some of the backstory between Ghost Widow and Wretch.
You come out of mission #2; which was inside a building, you call the contact up and get mission #3.
That mission's marker is the doors to the building that you're in. But on the actual mini-map it has the right spot/door marked. This bug has been going on, again, since CoV went live.
I'm not sure if it's fixed now (since Mercy got a bit of a revamp) but...things like that where it's an actual mission that still aren't fixed does make me
I know you guys (devs/etc) care but...it sure seems like the bosses or whomever is handing down the deadlines for the next patch need to step back and go away for a few months so that bugs can get fixed.
Of course back to the typo issues; SSA # 7 has quite a few of them in the info description boxes, "TEXT"....really?
Edit:
Seer Marino is the contact name I think.
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