ATIO + Catalyst can screw up your set!
By
Alexis_NA,
Posted on: 2012-02-14 15:28 in The Market and Inventions
Holy Smokes. This warning should be reposted in the All Access player questions. Thanks a bunch fo rthe heads up!
Jak
A little off topic: It's ATO, not ATIO. There are no ArcheType Invention Origin enhancements at this time.
Quote:
You didn't lose half your bonuses. You got the first two bonuses TWICE.|
Originally Posted by Alexis_NA
Not having played with ATOs in beta, I bought a bunch of super packs to give it a whirl.
I was lucky enough to get most of the scrapper ATO set, which was better than what I had slotted, so I bought the rest of the set and slotted it. Yay! Great bonuses! I'd also gotten 3 catalysts in my super packs. I went to combine with my slotted scrapper set... Only to find that once I did, I LOST HALF MY BONUSES because the combined superior ATO is counted as an entirely different set. This is counter-intuitive to say the least. There are no other enhancement sets which behave this way. Nor was there any kind of warning. I was quite angry at having spent not only real world money but lots of inf and time to slot the set only to screw it up. I suspect I will not be the only one who makes this costly mistake. |
Given how good those bonuses are, this is TOTALLY WORTH IT.
Indeed, this approach is one of the two ways I recommend using the ATO's, good for you!
I have a question or two about superior-grade ATOs to ask.
Normal ATO's are available from level 10 to 50 and are attuned, so not only do the magnitudes of the enhancements from the pieces scale with level, but also the set bonuses are available all the way down to level 7 from exemping. If one uses a catalyst to create the superior version of the set, it's now only available at level 50, and so the attuned property (if it even keeps that?) doesn't do anything. From that, I think the normal enhancement magnitude exemping rules should come into play. Do they?
Then, other superior sets (non ATO purples) continue to provide their bonuses even when exemped down below level 50 -- which I consider to be one of the main draws of a purple. Do the "(Superior)" versions of ATOs behave the same? If I upgrade my ATO from normal to superior, are they becoming nearly worthless for exemping?
Quote:
By that logic, it should be AO, for Archetype Origin.|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
A little off topic: It's ATO, not ATIO. There are no ArcheType Invention Origin enhancements at this time.
|
Or, more correctly, AE's, for Archetype Enhancements, since that's what they're called on at least one official announcement.
Relax, let people call them what the hell they want to, so long as it's clear what they're talking about.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
Quote:
No, the set bonuses remain.|
Originally Posted by Ardrea
I have a question or two about superior-grade ATOs to ask.
Normal ATO's are available from level 10 to 50 and are attuned, so not only do the magnitudes of the enhancements from the pieces scale with level, but also the set bonuses are available all the way down to level 7 from exemping. If one uses a catalyst to create the superior version of the set, it's now only available at level 50, and so the attuned property (if it even keeps that?) doesn't do anything. From that, I think the normal enhancement magnitude exemping rules should come into play. Do they? Then, other superior sets (non ATO purples) continue to provide their bonuses even when exemped down below level 50 -- which I consider to be one of the main draws of a purple. Do the "(Superior)" versions of ATOs behave the same? If I upgrade my ATO from normal to superior, are they becoming nearly worthless for exemping? |
The downsides to upgrading them to Superior are:
* they become account locked (no trading, no selling, no emailing except to your own account)
* once they are Superior even though you can email them to an alt on your account, only a level 50 can slot them.
* while you cannot slot a regular version of an ATO and a superior version, they do form different set bonuses so as the OP discovered he basically removed one of the ATOs from his regular set by doing that.
So the only level 50 aspect of making an ATO superior is you can only slot it on a 50.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I'm presuming the solution for the OP, assuming he wants the bonuses for 4,5 & 6
enhancements, is ... 3 more Catalysts. 
It's certainly an important caveat to bear in mind, and as others have said,
doubling the first bonus or two might even be desirable, but I find the the statement
"screw up your set" to be a little bit hyperbolic.
It's hardly an insurmountable issue.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Quote:
totally off topic. And you know exactly what he ment. Why the grammer poolece.|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
A little off topic: It's ATO, not ATIO. There are no ArcheType Invention Origin enhancements at this time.
|
Did you feel compelled to point out his abbreviations. Cause seening this compels me to point out your OCD
The fact that ATO and SATOs are different sets may be restrictive but also creates many opportunities. I agree, however, that they should tell people about this stipulation explicitly and ahead of time.
Quote:
All Attuned Enhancements attune to your level as you level up. They do *not* attune to your level when you exemplar down. The normal Exemplar Enhancement Aspect Scaling applies to Attuned Enhancements.
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Originally Posted by Ardrea
Normal ATO's are available from level 10 to 50 and are attuned, so not only do the magnitudes of the enhancements from the pieces scale with level, but also the set bonuses are available all the way down to level 7 from exemping.
|
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Regarding the abbreviation correction...
Why do people think it is so outrageous to correct someone sometimes?
Someone made a small mistake and someone else let them know about it.
Feel free to do what you will with the knowledge. Big flippin' deal!
If they already knew and prefer to use their version... go ahead... if they didn't know... Yay! Someone politely pointed it out.
That's a good thing.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
As I posted above, even if it was a small mistake, then the 'correction' was also a small mistake, as on at least one official mention of the shinies, they're called Archetype Enhancements, so should really be abbreviated to AE's (and wouldn't all the confusion that would cause just be worth it?), or maybe ATE's.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Someone made a small mistake and someone else let them know about it.
|
The whole 'Origin' term as relates to enhancements is a holdover from Single and Dual Origin enhancements being tied to your Origin as chosen at character creation. Training enhancements don't use the word 'Origin' in them at all, so it's just become accepted player shorthand for enhancement.
As I said above, who cares what abbreviation people are using, so long as it's clear what they're referring to? But posting a correction just because someone doesn't use your preferred abbreviation reeks a little of snark.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
Quote:
Thanks for that distinction; at least they keep the set bonuses down to their minimum level less three -- which is the part I find critical.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
All Attuned Enhancements attune to your level as you level up. They do *not* attune to your level when you exemplar down. The normal Exemplar Enhancement Aspect Scaling applies to Attuned Enhancements.
|
Do many people actually buy them at minimum level, and level up with them? I've never bothered with them until the character was level 50 and I was confident I was going to keep it. On the way up, I tend to Frankenslot whatever I find or get cheaply. For me, attuned enhancements are much more valuable due to their exemping down better than a max level normal set IO, and not because they level up with me.
Quote:
If you know what your level 50 build is going to look like (thanks, Mids!) which includes using Attuned Enhancements, then there is no reason not to slot them as you level up.|
Originally Posted by Ardrea
Thanks for that distinction; at least they keep the set bonuses down to their minimum level less three -- which is the part I find critical.
Do many people actually buy them at minimum level, and level up with them? I've never bothered with them until the character was level 50 and I was confident I was going to keep it. On the way up, I tend to Frankenslot whatever I find or get cheaply. For me, attuned enhancements are much more valuable due to their exemping down better than a max level normal set IO, and not because they level up with me. |
I do that on Beta where they're free.
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Sounds like someone needs to make up a tutorial for this stuff.
Seems a bit confusing.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Quote:
Was already working on it:|
Originally Posted by plainguy
Sounds like someone needs to make up a tutorial for this stuff.
Seems a bit confusing. |
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Quote:
For me, knowing what a build will look like later isn't much use -- I'd say I abandon and delete more than half the characters I start by level 25, and another half of those that get to level 25 before or shortly after reaching level 50. My reason not to slot attuneds as I level up should be evident from that; and now I'm wondering how uncommon I am in this regard. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
If you know what your level 50 build is going to look like (thanks, Mids!) which includes using Attuned Enhancements, then there is no reason not to slot them as you level up.
I do that on Beta where they're free. |
Quote:
And Training Origin. And Hamidon Origin. And Invention Origin. The use of "Origin" with regards to enhancements is about as proper of a technical game term as possible.|
Originally Posted by Canine
The whole 'Origin' term as relates to enhancements is a holdover from Single and Dual Origin enhancements being tied to your Origin as chosen at character creation.
|
At least the original tangent was alerting someone with the proper name for these enhancers, as it differentiates them from Invention Origins and all of the mechanics associated with them (recipes, salvage, VIP or permit gated, etc). ATOs are not IOs and really have no association with them, so correcting the improper use of that term might help other people in the long run.
Quote:
And Titan-Os!
|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
And Training Origin. And Hamidon Origin. And Invention Origin. The use of "Origin" with regards to enhancements is about as proper of a technical game term as possible.
|
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Don't forget the O-Face
The only real way that I found that you can screw up your set and build, is if you already have 5 of a set bonus. I have 5 purple sets in my build already for example. If I would've made 5 of the Dominion of Arachnos set all Superior, I wouldn't have been getting the 10% recharge from it, and would've borked the whole set and my build. I wasn't aware that the Superior ATOs for this particular set worked just like purples with the "Rule of 5". Thankfully, I only had one ATO in the set as a Superior, so I just pulled it out and deleted it, and bought a regular copy with astral merits and infamy, as there were none currently for sale on the Black Market. ATOs, also can't be +1 enhancement boosted.
Lessons: 1. Makes sure that catalyzing an ATO set isn't going to ruin your set and build, if you're already capped for a particular bonus already (ie. already capped for 10% recharge from purple sets for example.
2. Carefully read each bonus that the ATO set gives.
3. Carefully read what each ATO in the set does.
Virtue H&V: CatSquid of Justice-Lvl 37 TriForm PB, Tundra Tigress-Lvl 50 Claws/SR Scrapper, Mistress Khaos-Lvl 50 Dark/Fire Brute, D'Vine Death-Lvl 50 Plant/Thorn Dom, Phrozen Purrgatory-Lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corr, Prowling Pantheress-Lvl 50 Claws/Nin Stalker, Robo Mynx 3.0-Lvl 50 Bots/Traps MM, ArachniBlast-Lvl 50+3 Perma Hasten/Perma Pets/High Recharge Crabspider, Devil's Wrath-Lvl 50 Bane Spider. SG: The 912 Project, VG: Progressively Evil.
I've never bought or used or seen an ATO, so I assumed that what you received initially was a recipe, which you had to craft. Hence: ATIO. Apparently that is not the case, but I suspect I'm not the only person to be wrong about that.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Ok. I am terrible at this stuff and I am trying to work out how this stuff...well....works!
If I get a catalyst what can i use it on...LOTG, or just purples or do I use it with a special drop?
Sorry for being a noob!
Not having played with ATOs in beta, I bought a bunch of super packs to give it a whirl.
I was lucky enough to get most of the scrapper ATO set, which was better than what I had slotted, so I bought the rest of the set and slotted it. Yay! Great bonuses!
I'd also gotten 3 catalysts in my super packs.
I went to combine with my slotted scrapper set... Only to find that once I did, I LOST HALF MY BONUSES because the combined superior ATO is counted as an entirely different set.
This is counter-intuitive to say the least. There are no other enhancement sets which behave this way. Nor was there any kind of warning.
I was quite angry at having spent not only real world money but lots of inf and time to slot the set only to screw it up.
I suspect I will not be the only one who makes this costly mistake.
---------------------------------
Heartbroken
Alpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg