Moral Obligations and MMOs
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-01-14 22:51 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I gamble every time I open a package of skittles. Will I get more red ones, or those vile purple ones? Makes me feel alive, man. Like I'm livin' on the edge.
EDIT: To the OP,
I think "moral obligation" is a poor choice of words for it, but I don't think it's a simple business agreement either. Describing my enjoyment of something as a business arrangement sounds *really* disconnected and corporate to me. Ultimately, LIFE has shown me that when somebody is passionate about what they are creating it will often be far more successful than if they're just there to turn a dollar, and that goes for damn near everything, not just video games. More than that, if somebody is truly devoted to what they are making, it can make their consumers passionate about what they are doing as well to the point where the product is not simple an exchange of services, but something we both own. Maybe not legally, but definitely metaphorically. For whatever that is worth.
It's the reason why people can get so emotional when they think their product isn't being handled well. They, or *we*, care about the game on a higher level beyond a simple 15 dollar a month transaction, I assure you. When the producers stop caring about the game, so will the player base. You have to enjoy something for it to be enjoyable. Without that, you have nothing.
Quote:
Without a happy customer there is no game.
|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
In the threads about Super Packs, I've seen a few people point out that it's the Dev's job to make money for the company, and that that's the reason the game exists. It is NOT their job to make us happy, unless that makes more money than making us unhappy.
True enough, I guess. It got me to thinking, though. If the Devs of any MMO (and game itself) have no moral obligations to the players, then what moral obligations do the players have to those Devs and their game? This isn't a question of right and wrong, that's another issue. What I'm asking is what people like us should consider ourselves obligated to do FOR the MMOs and Devs of said games we play? If we know of an exploit but we're not using it, do we still have a duty to report it? If we're on a test server, do we have a responsibility to actually test instead of just mess around and have fun? If we find a bug in-game, do we need to report it? The Devs are there to make money, but the players are paying that money to enjoy themselves. At what point should a player feel that they need to stop having fun and help the Devs with the game in some way? Again, this isn't about right or wrong, nor is it about how we deal with other players. Being a jerk to players OR Devs is wrong. Abusing an exploit is wrong. I'm just wondering where people think we can draw the line that allows us to shrug our shoulders and say "Not my problem, I'm here to enjoy myself". ((PS: It's late and I'm tired. Sorry if I rambled a bit. It's hard to get the exact question into words when I'm about to faceplant onto my keyboard.)) |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
Paranoid much?
|
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
IMHO, most of the social contracts that make up the cultural mores of a decent and sustainable people are in tatters due to the rugged individualism De Tocqueville describes in Democracy in America. I could say more but it would likely get my post edited if I haven't said too much already. But my parting thought on this topic: there is much more to living life than making money, and shared enterprises, organized as corporations or otherwise, should reach for nobler goals than mere monetary profits.
|
_________
@Inquisitor
Quote:
No, without enough happy customers there is no game.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Without a happy customer there is no game.
|
You can't please everyone, but you can please enough people to turn a profit. It really doesn't matter what any one player wants.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Quote:
This is probably the best description of the super packs I've seen yet - the shiny, colourful machines in large stores designed to part gullible children and their cash. All the more reason to hate them.
|
Originally Posted by Roderick
The Super Boosters are as much "Gambling" as the machines at supermarkets full of cheap rubber toys are.
 |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Starting with the gambling thing, I don't consider it to be gambling per se, as you're guaranteed to get something with the Super Packs. Sure, it might not be what you want, but then, if I order a lasagne in a restaurant and it turns out to have mushrooms in, it's not what I wanted either, but I've still been fed.
What are my options there? Order something I don't want? Go somewhere else where the food isn't as good? Or eat the majority of the lasagne and leave the mushrooms on the side? I could starve (ie save my PPs until there's something I want), but eventually I'll have to spend them on something (I've loads saved so far, as nothing was appealing). Heck, with some of the things in the Super Packs, it's like having dinner with a friend who's going to take the mushrooms off my plate anyhow.
As for the morals? This is a point I've been known to be fanatical over in the past, so I'll try to keep this brief. Morals are personal. I have my morals, you have yours. I don't expect you to follow mine, and I would be enraged if you think I had to follow yours. I'm not 'morally obligated' to do anything, ever. Laws and morals are not the same thing, and never will be.
Quote:
I would probably go with Kinder suprise eggs as another analogy...|
Originally Posted by Roderick
The Super Boosters are as much "Gambling" as the machines at supermarkets full of cheap rubber toys are.
This is not gambling. Neither are the Super Packs. |
linkage
Although they are banned in the US apparently :s
Quote:
Thank you, Chaotic Neutral |
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
the term "Moral obligations" is an oxymoron.
Something that is morally correct can never be an obligation. It must be a choice. If you force someone to do the right thing, it's just as bad as forcing them to do the wrong thing. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
|
Quote:
I made no statement on the morality of gambling, I just pointed out the fact that it is indeed gambling.
|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
I don't care if it is or not. Not everyone believes gambling to be immoral or evil. Quite a large portion of the population has no problem with it, in fact.
|
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Yes, and those rats that randomly get a pellet or not when they throw the switch aren't gambling either. I have no moral qualms against gambling, I just don't want to be treated as a lab rat that is being conditionned to hit the "give Paragon money" button as often as possible.
|
Originally Posted by Roderick
The Super Boosters are as much "Gambling" as the machines at supermarkets full of cheap rubber toys are.
This is not gambling. Neither are the Super Packs. |
Character index
Quote:
The rats don't have a choice about how they're treated. You do. That's not a good analogy.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Yes, and those rats that randomly get a pellet or not when they throw the switch aren't gambling either. I have no moral qualms against gambling, I just don't want to be treated as a lab rat that is being conditionned to hit the "give Paragon money" button as often as possible.
|
The Devs do not clutch your wallet in their hands, nor do they type in your credit card number at the pay screen. You can complain about how things are obtained, or not obtained, all you want, but it's still boiling down to a choice that only you can make. Part with money (or time, or both), or don't.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
Quote:
You mean if I play CoH long enough, I may win a million dollars? W00T!!!
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I made no statement on the morality of gambling, I just pointed out the fact that it is indeed gambling.
|
Quote:
Nah, you are playing on a lower limits table. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
You mean if I play CoH long enough, I may win a million dollars? W00T!!!
|
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Funny, all this time I thought I was playing a video game.
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Nah, you are playing on a lower limits table.
|
Quote:
Great comparison.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
The Super Boosters are as much "Gambling" as the machines at supermarkets full of cheap rubber toys are.
This is not gambling. Neither are the Super Packs. |
I really hate those things too.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Quote:
Yup and now that game features video poker. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Funny, all this time I thought I was playing a video game.
|
So its clear, the only issue I see is offering things for real money not available via the game. I thought it was addressed for everything except some costume unique's right?
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
I see slot machines and craps tables in the Golden Giza. I think they even have blackjack. But I've never seen poker. In fact, I've never even see any NPCs playing those games, much less the other players. I had no idea you could gamble for inf in this game. When did they add this in?|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Yup and now that game features video poker.
|
Quote:
| So its clear, the only issue I see is offering things for real money not available via the game. I thought it was addressed for everything except some costume unique's right? |
I think my post was misunderstood, but no worries all things will work themselves out in the end.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
I wish it did. It would be a nice diversion while waiting for the waves in the Terra Volta trials.
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Yup and now that game features video poker.
|
_________
@Inquisitor
Quote:
Funny, because that's exactly what "moral obligations" refer to.|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
This isn't a question of right and wrong, that's another issue.
|
But, no, you're not "morally obligated" to report bugs and exploits. Just to not abuse them when you find them. I think it's a bit...jerkish to leave them unreported, but that's just me. That's not the same as saying you have a "moral obligation" to report them. There's a difference between consideration for your fellow players ( and the devs ) and "moral obligations".
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Black Zot
This post exactly.
Paying for a game (or anything else) is pure economics. Morality and economics are utterly irrelevant to each other. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Its gambling. Denial is not a river in Eygpt.
|
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Quote:
I see there being a slight difference in some cases.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Funny, because that's exactly what "moral obligations" refer to.
|
Let's say you're entering a building and you see someone else headed for the doors, and they're carrying enough stuff that they'll have to pause for a moment to rearrange things to open the door. The right thing to do is to hold the door for them. They don't really need you to, though, and it's hardly the end of the world if you let them deal with it so you can move on to what you're there for. And the person behind THEM may expect you to hold the door open for them too, even though they don't have anything in their hands, just because you held it open for the first person.
Anyway...
Thank you all for your replies. They were, by and large, very honest and logical. I just can't help but feel that a little sliver of idealism died in the reading, but maybe that's a good thing when it comes to dealing with things.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
Quote:
You seem to have "courteous and discourteous" confused with "right and wrong".
|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
I see there being a slight difference in some cases.
Let's say you're entering a building and you see someone else headed for the doors, and they're carrying enough stuff that they'll have to pause for a moment to rearrange things to open the door. The right thing to do is to hold the door for them. They don't really need you to, though, and it's hardly the end of the world if you let them deal with it so you can move on to what you're there for. And the person behind THEM may expect you to hold the door open for them too, even though they don't have anything in their hands, just because you held it open for the first person. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
As a VIP I don't really see super packs as gambling.
The only time I will get any, is when I get my free points off of NCsoft that I never used to get anyway so it's not like i'm losing anything, infact i'm still getting alot more for my sub even if I draw 100 inspiration's from my monthly point allowance.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
Definitions like to bet on an uncertain outcome from stupidly liberal Merriam Webster and her bunch of leftist rebelrousers...I see.
|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Only by the most stupidly liberal definitions of the term.
|
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.