I love Dual Blades and BS with the changes.
So. much. burst.
I am brainstorming some attack chains for both. But yes attack vitals is pretty much to be ignored with the new in combat assassin strike. Sweep is pure win for dual blades that now it can be used in combat! What joy!
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Oh I know the dps is there. Its just what is the point if you don't use the combos? |
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
I love Dual Blades and BS with the changes.
So. much. burst. I am brainstorming some attack chains for both. But yes attack vitals is pretty much to be ignored with the new in combat assassin strike. Sweep is pure win for dual blades that now it can be used in combat! What joy! |
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Yeah the reason I like my DB scrapper is that she is an AoE death machine with the combos and I can use them whenever I want.
If I'm in the middle of a ton of mobs, I use Blinding Feint and then Sweep (1k cuts-Power Slice-Typhoon), and scrapper Sweep still get the added AoE damage from Typhoon. Then I can do it again or switch to Attack Vitals (Ablating-Vengeful-Sweeping), and you still can hit a ton of mobs since Sweeping is a cone. Plus Blinding Feint is helping my damage aura, my accuracy, and I get to skip Nimble Slash since I never used Empower and Weaken, I just switch AV and Sweep or use BF-AV-BF-AV if I don't need to AoE everyone around me.
And the only subpar attack I have to use is Power Slice, which is not needed for AV which I use on hard targets.
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The combos have always been like flavor with the way castle designed them. I have always found dual blades more enjoyable ignoring combos for the most part. The gimmick of combos has always been out shined by the reality that once you pick up sweeping strike that attack vitals is pointless (especially the DoT component making placate PITA to use). Now? You have Assassing strike with sweeping strike to really bring the pain and Ablating strike is a good filler attack. OTC is actually a better opener now that AS can be used mid combat honestly unless you want to start off with sweep combo. Usually if I miss my sweep combo I follow it up with an empower but that is rare, but still nice fall back.
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Oh I know the dps is there. Its just what is the point if you don't use the combos?
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Quote:
This... SOO much this.. my DB/WP stalker now has a new lease on life!
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
I love Dual Blades and BS with the changes.
So. much. burst. I am brainstorming some attack chains for both. But yes attack vitals is pretty much to be ignored with the new in combat assassin strike. Sweep is pure win for dual blades that now it can be used in combat! What joy! |
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
Yep, no more lolstalker jokes! Its been long overdue. As much as I liked Castle, I for one like the new devs who went ahead and said "No" stalkers need to be brought up to the level of the other melee types.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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This sounds pretty awesome and I was trying to come up with a build to abuse this. I tried DB/NIN below but don't seem to have hit the recharge needed for the chain above. Has a bunch of empty slots so probably isn't close to optimized.|
Originally Posted by ricohdah
I think you mean when Ablating Strike is used in a Sweep combo, any melee/def debuff procs slotted will roll for each target hit just like procs in a PBAoE power.
Attack Chain: Ablating Strike-Sweeping Strike-Ablating Strike-(Build Up*)-Assassin's Blades-repeat. * Add Build Up in that spot whenever it is charged. What I believe will be a stalker DB's strongest ST attack chain will/can have the following: -An AoE cone every 4ish seconds (Sweeping Strike) -A PBAoE knockdown attack every 30ish seconds (Sweep combo) -A damage resist debuff proc in Ablating Strike (Achilles' Heel) -A damage resist debuff proc in Sweeping Stike (Fury of the Gladiator). -The potential for 2 BU'd Assassin's Blade criticals (chain is fast enough to have 2 Assassin's Blades within 10s) -Stalker's Guile purple ATO set into Assassin's Blade (1st Ablating Strike in chain will have more criticals). -Hecatomb (5/6) set in Ablating Strike (Adds 33% chance for moderate NE damage) -Armageddon (5/6) set in Sweeping Strike (Adds 33% chance for moderate Fire damage) The chain takes about 5.2 seconds (Without BU). Just beware with great speed comes great end cost... |
I tried to find a DB/WP build that could get soft-capped on S/L/E/N and use Shadow Meld PPP instead, but it didn't really seem that much better than a NIN build.
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We were discussing this in another thread. I thought all AS had the same cast time outside of Hide. EricHough pointed out that it does not. The cast time is the normal AS minus the interrupt time so DB takes 1.168s (I thought it was 1.432s). I was able to get Ablating Strikes recharge down to 1.36s on SR and I believe 1.42s on Nin (But did not have softcap def). I felt it is a noticeable gap and will try to develop another chain using Musculature instead of the Spiritual alpha. Sorry, I hope you did not waste to much time on it. I should have thought of posting that info here as well.
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
This sounds pretty awesome and I was trying to come up with a build to abuse this. I tried DB/NIN below but don't seem to have hit the recharge needed for the chain above. Has a bunch of empty slots so probably isn't close to optimized.
I tried to find a DB/WP build that could get soft-capped on S/L/E/N and use Shadow Meld PPP instead, but it didn't really seem that much better than a NIN build. |
DB/EA should be neat if you aimed for what ricohdah's suggesting, as it has recharge and end management. Here's a build i mocked up, to be used with Ageless:
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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That is an awesome build. I did not even think of using Energy Aura as I was going to just save it for when Staff Melee is released. |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
DB/EA should be neat if you aimed for what ricohdah's suggesting, as it has recharge and end management. Here's a build i mocked up, to be used with Ageless:
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The more I think about AB-SS-AB-AS-repeat chain, it would still work out well. The slight gap would be the time to use Hasten, Kuji-Rin, Practiced Brawler, Energy Drain, Water Spout etc. Whatever secondary/PP/PPP/APP we decide to go with. Unfortunately if the ATO is slotted into AS, then the power used in the gap could possibly ruin the AB's chance to critical if we were in Hide.
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Then after that what does a lot of single target occasionally I get some aoe is vengeful slice=> ablating strike => power slash/slice => nimble slash |
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Good thing about that chain is that BU>AS>AB gives you a little extra damage from pulling off the sweep combo.
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And hitting build up when it recharges to give more dmg but ot using AS though cause of it hard to set up right now in the middle of a mob of npcs
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Something for ppl to use
Similar to my DB/EA build Auroxis, but I was curious about a few things:
1) Why no 1000 cuts? Don't you lose out on alot of AOE, especially with build up from hide?
2) Why burnout? Does that work with incarnate powers or is it for a double emergency energize, or does Override replace itself if cast again before duration runs out, allowing for 6 minute Override?
3) Wouldn't Spiritual radial be better than the extra damage from musculature, getting AB recharge as close as possible to 1.168?
Just curious why you did these things as I want to perfect my build and I am not very experienced with Incarnate level of play.
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1) I hate 1k cuts, it takes waaay too long to animate and doesn't cover a lot of area. It's kind of like Shadow Maul in that sense. Plus, the stalker version of DB doesn't need it for Sweep.|
Originally Posted by Ludicron
Similar to my DB/EA build Auroxis, but I was curious about a few things:
1) Why no 1000 cuts? Don't you lose out on alot of AOE, especially with build up from hide? 2) Why burnout? Does that work with incarnate powers or is it for a double emergency energize, or does Override replace itself if cast again before duration runs out, allowing for 6 minute Override? 3) Wouldn't Spiritual radial be better than the extra damage from musculature, getting AB recharge as close as possible to 1.168? Just curious why you did these things as I want to perfect my build and I am not very experienced with Incarnate level of play. |
2) Burnout is for double duration Overload and double Water Spout. Energize's buff doesn't stack with itself, but i guess you could use it twice in a row for its heal component.
3) Musculutare is always better for damage in my experience, especially when the difference is like a 5.3 seconds attack chain and a 5.23 seconds attack chain. Keep in mind that in arcanatime, 1.168 seconds is 1.32 seconds.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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I believe Burnout only effects primary and secondary powers, not PP/PPP/APP. So it would not work with Water Spout. The 1.168s is in arcanatime for unhidden AS, 1.03s cast time. I am thinking about just using AB-PS-SS-AS-repeat attack chain.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
2) Burnout is for double duration Overload and double Water Spout. Energize's buff doesn't stack with itself, but i guess you could use it twice in a row for its heal component.
3) Musculutare is always better for damage in my experience, especially when the difference is like a 5.3 seconds attack chain and a 5.23 seconds attack chain. Keep in mind that in arcanatime, 1.168 seconds is 1.32 seconds. |
Slotting PS with the stalker ATO, giving SS more chances to critical. Using PS instead of NS because they have about the same DPS, does not need as much recharge to run the chain and PS has a better chance to build AF. Activate BU after SS will still start the Sweep combo.
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Your arcanatime calculations are off, as 1.03s cast time is 1.188s in arcanatime, not 1.168s.|
Originally Posted by ricohdah
I believe Burnout only effects primary and secondary powers, not PP/PPP/APP. So it would not work with Water Spout. The 1.168s is in arcanatime for unhidden AS, 1.03s cast time. I am thinking about just using AB-PS-SS-AS-repeat attack chain.
Slotting PS with the stalker ATO, giving SS more chances to critical. Using PS instead of NS because they have about the same DPS, does not need as much recharge to run the chain and PS has a better chance to build AF. Activate BU after SS will still start the Sweep combo. |
As for going PS instead of AB in the chain, i don't like it. Not only are you losing a purple and a -res proc in the chain, you're using an attack that does less damage while having a much longer animation. You'll have to make up for it by getting a lot of damage bonuses instead of recharge.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Yeh, I am not not completely happy with it.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Your arcanatime calculations are off, as 1.03s cast time is 1.188s in arcanatime, not 1.168s.
As for going PS instead of AB in the chain, i don't like it. Not only are you losing a purple and a -res proc in the chain, you're using an attack that does less damage while having a much longer animation. You'll have to make up for it by getting a lot of damage bonuses instead of recharge. |
AS's outside of hide will supposedly be standardized in the future, leading to, I believe, 1.188 arcanatime activations.
Getting Ablating to that recharge is impossible. However, even with a very minor pause the damage of that chain is better than your other options. In fact, a top build would likely be the second-best single target damage available to a stalker, only second to ninja blade. (Their positions are reversed on scrappers because of Blinding Feint, which stalkers lack). Combined with some good AoE options, db will be quite good post-i22. I plan on doing db/ice, myself.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
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Well, from my experience, 1000 Cuts is good. Unless you are only hitting one target, 1K Cuts has 10' reach and much wider cone (much bigger than Shadow Maul) and it has 100% knock down. It is a very good attack that should be used in team play. |
Originally Posted by Ludicron
Similar to my DB/EA build Auroxis, but I was curious about a few things:
1) Why no 1000 cuts? Don't you lose out on alot of AOE, especially with build up from hide? |
The numbers they are talking about here is mainly for the highest Single Target damage possible. Personally, I will not slot Ablating with that much -recharge to get down to the lowest recharge because Ablating procs in Pbaoe style. It is the weirdest single target attack because when proc happens, it checks all mobs around you (about 10' radius)!
If I plan to freaking slot dual blade, I will put Purple Chance for Negative and maybe Chance to debuff resistance in Ablating. The rest of the slots can be a mixed of acc/damage/recharge/end. If I want to be fancy about it, I'll put maybe 3-4 procs in Ablating and use Power slice/Vengeful. I've tested it by putting Chance for Knockdown in Ablating. You'll have a mini-sweep combo right there!
People don't include Vengeful strike in top ST attack but in normal gameplay, it is a cheap way to knock down bosses. You can technically use Vengeful, and then 1K Cuts for two knock downs.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Good call on Ninja Blade. Especially when the unhidden AS cast time is standardized, NB will be a monster. I decided not to reroll my DB/Nin into a /SR. The amount of time I would need to invest, the 12+ billion build seemed like a lot just to get an attack chain. Also I have 2 SR characters already (stalker, scrapper) and was not thrilled about starting another.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
AS's outside of hide will supposedly be standardized in the future, leading to, I believe, 1.188 arcanatime activations.
Getting Ablating to that recharge is impossible. However, even with a very minor pause the damage of that chain is better than your other options. In fact, a top build would likely be the second-best single target damage available to a stalker, only second to ninja blade. (Their positions are reversed on scrappers because of Blinding Feint, which stalkers lack). Combined with some good AoE options, db will be quite good post-i22. I plan on doing db/ice, myself. |
I have been thinking about ways to boost DPS on stalkers. Such as the Stalker's Guile chance to Hide proc, does it proc once per attack when slotted in an AoE or does it proc for each target hit? If it is each target hit, having it in Ablating Strike would be fantastic since procs in this power trigger like a PBAoE attack. AB-SS-AB-PS-AS-repeat would probably pass AB-SS-AB-AS-repeat in ST DPS when fighting 3 or more enemies. Slot the proc in Kinetic Melee's Burst to try to get perma Build Up, Throw Spines/Shockwave for consistent criticals in Ripper/Eviscerate etc.
You really need to take 1k cuts, thats like aoe AS from hide at least on minions. If you cant hit more than 1 target using this then you are definatelly doing it wrong. It has one of the largest cones stalkers get. It was made much wider than the scrapper/brute/tank version.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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MIDS says the arc is the same (90 degrees) as Scrapper, but has a 10 range on stalkers instead of 7. That extra 3 feet range probably widens the cone quite substantially.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
You really need to take 1k cuts, thats like aoe AS from hide at least on minions. If you cant hit more than 1 target using this then you are definatelly doing it wrong. It has one of the largest cones stalkers get. It was made much wider than the scrapper/brute/tank version.
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When you use Burnout for double-Overload or double-Retsu etc. does starting the 2nd Overload/Retsu before the first ends allow you to bypass the end-crash? Or do you still end-crash when the first one ends?
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
2) Burnout is for double duration Overload and double Water Spout.
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This was asked in another thread talking about Burnout and prolonging Power Surge and Unstoppable. People did testing for it, and found that you get the endurance crash but not the -recovery; Power Surge and Unstoppable bypass the crash when restarted. Since with Overload you could simply hit Energy Drain right as its crashing and refill your endurance so it's not an issue - and really, wasn't even with the full crash - but Retsu needs to get endurance elsewhere.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
When you use Burnout for double-Overload or double-Retsu etc. does starting the 2nd Overload/Retsu before the first ends allow you to bypass the end-crash? Or do you still end-crash when the first one ends?
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If you don't want to do the testing, you can head over to City of Data: the line items in for the parts that are reset each say "Does not stack from same caster. Effect replaces previous instance." This makes logical sense because the crash is a line item that simply has a delay, and when it doesn't stack and gets replaced the timer on the delay is reset.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Yes but as greedy as I am, I feel 1K Cuts needs to be 12' radius. :P I have to guess they added 5' extra reach for Stalker's 1K Cuts because Sweep combo couldn't be used often and there is no Typhoon Edge. But after they increased melee reach from 5' to 7', 1K Cuts' 10' doesn't seem as impressive as Scrapper's 7'. |
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
MIDS says the arc is the same (90 degrees) as Scrapper, but has a 10 range on stalkers instead of 7. That extra 3 feet range probably widens the cone quite substantially.
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Again, I am greedy.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
2 of the worst? Attack Vitals on stalkers takes the 3 worst DPS attacks in the set.
Nimble Slash - 43.25
Power Slice - 43.67
Ablating Strike - 67.97
Assassin's Blade - ?
Vengeful Slice - 37.99
Sweeping Strike - 71.63
1000 Cuts - 41.84
One Thousand Cuts isn't the greatest but at least it can hit multiple targets. I am sure unhidden Assassin's Blade is the best DPS but I do not have the numbers for it. Superior damage in about 1.452s (Guesstimate).
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!