These forums are the home of minmaxers, and the only path a minmax Dominator player is going to follow is +Recharge, because it provides the most benefit compared to anything else.
All those years ago when the IO system was first released, I was the lone voice in this forum saying I was going after Defense when everyone else (well, almost everyone else) was going after Recharge.
Lots of Defense on a Dom is a bit "meh" compared to other Archetypes because a Dom's controls are what keeps them safe the vast majority of the time. Defense serves to give you some breathing room for mistakes, but that's about it (okay, it can help with those nasty PToDs, too). The controls make it semi-redundant because if you're not making mistakes your Defense isn't doing much for you.
But I still love me some Defense. On Gravity it's a great way to go as Singy throws out so many controls, you can spend much more time assaulting than any other Dom would be able to. The Defense combined with Singy's tanking and controlling makes for a very unique Dom play experience.
I don't generally post builds though, so ask in the Builds forum for a softcap Dom build and someone may do one up for you.
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
Quote:
There are a couple builds with soft-capped (or within 1 purple thereof) defense... have seen smashing/lethal and ranged as the most desirable ones.|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
I have been looking through a lot of dom builds posted here, and have not seen many builds with defense posted at all. I could not imagine playing without softcap def. Why is there such a dearth of builds focusing on rech/def? Everyone seems primarily focused on just rech.
|
However if you have perma-dom, and you are keeping entire mobs confused / stunned / held / otherwise mezzed, you don't really need defense as much as other characters would. High recharge lets you get permadom and also makes your best powers (Carrion Creepers in plant control f.ex) more likely to be up every spawn, as you no doubt know.
This is not to say that defense isn't important for dominators, but it's more of a backup form of survival in the cases where you get unlucky and miss a lot of your targets with your key control power, or when a spawn is spread out and you can't hit them all with one power, or when two spawns are too close together and you end up aggroing both. In these cases, your defense gives you the time to clear out the spawn or activate another control power while you have another 16 or so extra guys shooting you. It's never really a substitute for control powers as a form of mitigation except when there are only a few d00ds left on the field.
I have a Perma Hasten, S/L softcapped Plant/Earth dom.
Do you want me to post the build?
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Flashfires has a base recharge of 90 seconds and Stun duration of 11.92 seconds. Well slotted, that's around 50 seconds recharge and 20 seconds stun, and it won't stun bosses. You need to double stack a hold for bosses. In that time, they might mezz you. Even with Domination the base duration of 17.88 seconds goes to around 30 seconds. Still not enough to be safe all the time. You need other controls and probably Defense if you're built that way.
On a high recharge (permadom) build, Flashfires recharges in under 30 seconds, and lasts 30 seconds. If you miss a boss, a single Hold will get him. No worries about being mezzed. Full END refill every once in a while. High recharge builds especially with permadom are just much more effective at control, and the mezz protection and END refill are great bonuses.
Defense is important, and I put as much of it as I can in most of my builds, but Permadom is just too important on Dominators.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
My Mind/Psi went for perma Drain Psyche, which means all of my other powers are perma or 1-2sec off perma (like Mass Confusion).
Never needed any defense on him. Plus being able to keep an AV permanently Confused AND permanently without any regen while tossing on some -def/res with Sleet is far more important to me than defense.
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Perma dom is the way to go and its also one of the reasons to max out a dom.
It really isn't that hard to get to the S/L softcap if you take frozen armor, weave, CJ, Maneuvers and a steadfast with basic slotting you can get to 35. All my doms have been permadom and softcapped.
Freedom Server - Main = Lil Bug & way too many alts to list
Quote:
This is what I did. I just haven't seen any posts emphasizing defence at all (we all know go for broke to get permadom...), so I was curious why. I would like to revist my build and see if I can softcap e/n as well, but that might be much more difficult.
|
Originally Posted by monkey0707
Perma dom is the way to go and its also one of the reasons to max out a dom.
It really isn't that hard to get to the S/L softcap if you take frozen armor, weave, CJ, Maneuvers and a steadfast with basic slotting you can get to 35. All my doms have been permadom and softcapped. |
-------
Hew in drag baby
I find it hard to satisfy both perma Domination and soft-capped S/L. It's possible but I have to change a lot to get it.
I have an Elec/Earth dom who I tried to go for more +defense than +recharge because he is mostly melee. Elec/Earth is fun but he can't take a real beating from incarnate AVs for sure. I haven't played him for a long time, which is sad 'cause I enjoyed leveling him. I just think /Earth isn't good enough for itrials. There's a lot of heavy damage, auto damage in itrials and being at melee distance all the time when controls don't work is just too risky.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
My permadom plant/psi with ~17% def can solo +4x8 no bosses. Maybe softcapping def would let me turn bosses on, but I wouldnt want to give up any powers or buy any expensive enhancements to get it. Maybe I could run with bosses now, I actually haven't tried yet.|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
I have been looking through a lot of dom builds posted here, and have not seen many builds with defense posted at all. I could not imagine playing without softcap def. Why is there such a dearth of builds focusing on rech/def? Everyone seems primarily focused on just rech.
|
IMO any effort at all to raise my def is wasted, when I could focus that effort on a toon that actually needs it (I have many).
Meh I did an ice/psi build in another thread with 118% global rech (actually 188% because it's permahasten) and 25%s/l (just because of Ice armor and CJ) with only the purple confuse set as 'expensive' and didn't even put the +3 steadfast, would be easy to lose a bit of recharge to maintain permadom and get to 45% s/l.
I've built a few doms for myself and friends that are both perma dom and softcapped. My Mind/Energy dom might be the most interesting. With the Incarnate slot she sits at 45% def to ranged, energy, negative, and a bit over that for Psi. I also have an Earth/Fire and Plant/Psi at smashing/lethal softcap.
Quote:
I've got lots of characters, and even though I'm a min-maxer chasing high defense bonuses gets tiresome after a while. Sometimes you want to play a character that's somehow different, and not always scrounging for Kinetic Combats or having to change alignment to grab Scorpion Shield. Permadom is really good enough to allow you to ignore defense and go all in for recharge.|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
I have been looking through a lot of dom builds posted here, and have not seen many builds with defense posted at all. I could not imagine playing without softcap def. Why is there such a dearth of builds focusing on rech/def? Everyone seems primarily focused on just rech.
|
It's not that high defense is bad, it's just that some dominator primary and secondary set combinations can be rather tedious to to get both permadom and decent defense on.
In the worst case scenario, you can always use four purples and hit the soft cap.
I have a earth/fire soft capped s/l and perma dom only uses 1 purple set. It's really not that hard. Especially if ya pick up the ice shield or scorpion shield.
Take a look
Code:
nothing really is sacrificed and the only difference with the live build is instead of fly I have super speed.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1472;679;1358;HEX;| |78DA6594CB4F135114C667A653B02F4A459E6DA914B02F5A687469620C2F3190A01| |8B7A462D34E525BD28E46568A6E5C2A68F0B1710DC68D1AFD2F7C6D5DBB5350E32B| |6AC6D3F93E28492799F9DD39F79EF9CE7C73EECC5D9DF03E9D5E3DA1A8FEF152AE5| |65B9CA85C32CA39B35275CEE50AC6924391A355CEC8DEC4E278A56C562BA5CC64AE| |6A1677EFF6CD9FACD572974B6666CAC8575776EF0233E562BE9A2F9B99DD817BBE2| |20F5958CEE72F06ECE14CF98A51332E1825C35CF1D891A99251289A3E8CEB43A35C| |084E2E1B4B9986DA5C6E292F979A29623D52E8B09C7D76D9F5C3921B415657BE6BC| |DB11F12531173AAF382A8AE6867C8B3A0BE401E17EA0EA525A5D9B941D17030D771| |5BB5632D77C0036BE43AE8BE4BDE03A3E2A8D316B634670AB578C936D2D70AE3EBF| |5B67622EF9748BB10D35D8F04315D69DF20EF83071F900FC17E29D2C31CCF0D3CA7| |6D153C749DBC0676DD045D22ECA3B68FDABF45DB8F9A553F6BEC2123A211C07A2DB| |0290B3B646E0BEC7B026AF2CC0EAC71749C83A75DF4B88FDE87E8BD43D676424BEF| |1C54F11E51B29F1C00B3DDC2B07C1FC9E9468EB39B351F6E23FDA41B1CF0911EC6A| |5FE5E7AD47B0ADF7760061C9C24A7C09169F0A720C89CE02BF8107A0E8EBE249F81| |D917A0476A0CD3D7F007EA8876847D141947ECC836B9437E01635FC96FE05F41943| |544DF4363F02D38F40E4CBE26DF80FF34EC91BADE307B28C61E4AB08712ECA1047B| |28F918B9B7A4D6383D8ED3E3117A9CA6C7697A9CA6C7A3F43824B929E8AAA94DE66| |E817FA4A68CBD132D25C3BDF9D1AB2863F46A8C5A217DDF1EB6E4A8370BB7B06525| |9B66C79A22D9A6C8D1A6C8B1A6C86C4345363DBC9FD7F7FE1D8A6AAF72B5EFFD11A| |C4F6E9965869AC61B6D3762AA7A1ADDEB3D8F37FBBC7F7D1CEB771A314DDD80EAD0| |1AB90EFE07596DE270| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Interesting timing for this topic. I just rebuilt (as in, today) my mind/psi dom because I thought she had too much recharge. That build was made with sleeping the Phalanx as the priority. Now that LRSF is trivial to incarnated teams, I decided to sacrifice a little bit of recharge to pick up a lot of def and I'm very pleased. Recharge and Defense go in opposite directions anyway with respect to marginal utility. One more percent of recharge does less than the one before it, one more percent of defense does more. Having said that, recharge IS the priority for doms, but once I meet my recharge objectives, then it's on to defense, and when that objective's met, move on to something else.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
Why, that's because you're bad at playing dominators, Virginia.
|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
I have been looking through a lot of dom builds posted here, and have not seen many builds with defense posted at all. I could not imagine playing without softcap def.
|
I use to be all for going for defense and softcap, but I've been jumping off that bandwagon a bit more recently. I think it really hit me when I realized one of my controllers with moderate defense (25-30% range) who went with a resistance epic shield instead of the defense one seemed more survivable than the one who was softcap s/l defense, but with no resistance.
I usually stay away from defense shields now like ice or scorpion (although ice epic is hard to stay away from on doms just due to sleet). But I find I do better going for say 32% defense and picking up a resistance shield instead. Having a nice 50% or so s/l resistance does wonders and that resistance is much tougher to get than finding ways to pick up an extra 13% defense. If you are solo, purple inspirations are dropping to you like candy and if you are on a team chances are very high someone is going to have at least a minor defense buff. You can even pick up the kinetic shield temp power buyable at any wentworths good for 30 mins if you really want to get you there (it gives about 13% s/l defense and it comes with energy resistance too, surprised those things aren't more popular).
Quote:
I completely disagree. I just like standing in the middle of agro cap throwing whatever controls/damage I feel like and killing stuff willy nilly. If I wanted setup, Id play a controller or stalker or something. Dom gives me damage and control, and I just pick whatever the hell I want to mash that moment to get the greatest fun.|
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Why, that's because you're bad at playing dominators, Virginia.
|
edit: With permadom/perma DP/perma hasten, why do I need more recharge again? Defence just seems like the only place to put IO sets anyway. To be fair, my build is hideously expensive without including that dam 3% pvp def io.
(Sure beats my tw/da scrapper....)
-------
Hew in drag baby
Quote:
You can disagree all you like. You're the one that said:
| I completely disagree. |
Quote:
| I could not imagine playing without softcap def. |
Or, as I call them the weak.
Quote:
I think this is am important part to note. There definitely are some primaries and secondaries with better slotting options. Ice, for example, can slot the purple confuse and sleep sets, but must slot one power sub-optimally and take another that is lackluster. Overall, however, I think dominators have very good slot options because of the mixture of melee, range, and mezzes available to them.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
It's not that high defense is bad, it's just that some dominator primary and secondary set combinations can be rather tedious to to get both permadom and decent defense on.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by RiverDusk
I use to be all for going for defense and softcap, but I've been jumping off that bandwagon a bit more recently. I think it really hit me when I realized one of my controllers with moderate defense (25-30% range) who went with a resistance epic shield instead of the defense one seemed more survivable than the one who was softcap s/l defense, but with no resistance.
I usually stay away from defense shields now like ice or scorpion (although ice epic is hard to stay away from on doms just due to sleet). But I find I do better going for say 32% defense and picking up a resistance shield instead. Having a nice 50% or so s/l resistance does wonders and that resistance is much tougher to get than finding ways to pick up an extra 13% defense. If you are solo, purple inspirations are dropping to you like candy and if you are on a team chances are very high someone is going to have at least a minor defense buff. You can even pick up the kinetic shield temp power buyable at any wentworths good for 30 mins if you really want to get you there (it gives about 13% s/l defense and it comes with energy resistance too, surprised those things aren't more popular). |
Quote:
Yes..who can play a non Melee build who is NOT soft capped these days. Crazy notion! It is a miracle the game ever had people playing the other ATs, back before IOs. Also, maybe understand what works for Doms...rech is better than anything else.
|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
I have been looking through a lot of dom builds posted here, and have not seen many builds with defense posted at all. I could not imagine playing without softcap def. Why is there such a dearth of builds focusing on rech/def? Everyone seems primarily focused on just rech.
|
I've changed my mind. By ignoring cost (I'm insanely rich in-game), I've found I can have cake AND pie! I'm leveling up several Doms now, and I'll be working on builds that are permadom and S/L soft capped by level 40. CAKE AND PIE!!! What's not to like?
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
I concur that TopDoc is insanely rich. Bravo sire! 
All I can say is that on my Plant/Fire/Fire it was much to tasty to go Fire Epic (Fireball, ROF) than to worry about Frozen Armor. I think I got something like 32.5% ranged def, so I can pop a small purp and be soft-cap to ranged if needed. But honestly, with stealth/SS + Seeds, I am golden for locking stuff down. Extra recharge helps have double-creepers up and speeds time between Embrace of Fires (which are too busy boosting Fire epic powers).
High recharge also gives me a pretty strong ST chain of Blaze-Blast-incin.
I don't really see why soft-capping would add much, or honestly be feasible in my build.
Generally speaking.. I dont need it Mobs that are stunned, held, sleep etc etc pose no threat to me. I have one dom wh has S/L defense because he spends a lot of time in melee as an Ice/Thorn. The other doms have o issues at all. The best defense for them is a good offense.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
It all depends.
You can eat a purple and get defense. No inspiration provides recharge.
What's right for the build depends a lot on the character and what they will be fighting.
I have been looking through a lot of dom builds posted here, and have not seen many builds with defense posted at all. I could not imagine playing without softcap def. Why is there such a dearth of builds focusing on rech/def? Everyone seems primarily focused on just rech.
-------
Hew in drag baby