Getting harder and harder to badge.
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2011-12-22 14:32 in Badges and Gladiators
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Thank you for doing this depth of work Arcanaville. It shows a dedication to understanding the structure of the game that few will ever rise to. While I do not actually detail everything out when I build according to Arcanatime, when i post my builds they are subjected to critique by people who are conversant with your work. Therefore I benefit from your work, as do so many others who play. May you have a prosperous new year.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I invented the fastest three-box Empath farm to get that badge at its original level of one billion points of healing. While running that farm I studied critter AI and power activation. My power activation studies eventually led to the Arcanatime theory (which I confirmed while farming Immortal, actually). My critter AI investigations eventually led me to help the devs fix a long-standing critter AI attack bug.
When I look at my Empath badge, I see a uniquely invented farm, the method by which everyone calculates attack chains today, and the current way all standard critters attack in the game. That's what one of my badges "measures." I believe I've earned the right to have an opinion on whether a badge's requirements make reasonable sense or not that doesn't question my appreciation for dedication. |
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Yeah, it is expected. Though I'm kind of surprised that there are only two of them.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
As Snow Globe will attest, its also not unexpected in any discussion about badge requirements.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There will always be people who think that everything they don't like is proof of developer incompetence, and everything they do like is just perfect as it is.
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I might disagree (loudly) about some things the developers do, but overall I'm getting value for my entertainment money.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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You know dogma I don't think you realized just how close to the matter you are. I asked awhile back what was the important thing about badging. At the time I really just didn't get the concept. From the outside it looked like it was people going arond trying to get a bigger number than anyone else. It was the only explanation that made even remote sense. I say remote sense because its a race where somebody gets to start before everyone else and as long as they stay in the race they can't lose. I got a couple of responses saying that was exactly what was going on they just wanted to have the "BIG NUMBER". The rest including people protesting very loudly in this thread denied this like there was no tomorrow.
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Originally Posted by Dogma
The only good thing anyone has said about badge nerfing is that it opens it up to newcomers and is less intimidating. Old badge hunters are leaving game so new blood is always a good thing. |
There's actually been a good deal of comments both thoughtful and worth considering in this thread. There has been some complaining, sure, but I really haven't gotten the sense that this was a bawww thread in the least. My input was what led to me not taking badging as seriously as I used to and then suggestions to try and make future "Master of" badges a bit more logical instead of resorting to gimmicks each time, because people are going to get tired of those gimmicks and we'll see participation on trials like Keyes and the Underground drop and participation on badge trials plummet. I think the Incarnate trials are actually pretty good, and I'd like to see them be successful for a long time.
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Ask yourself this. There are badges that are completely impossible to obtain for most of the player base. |
Originally Posted by Kurrent
There's actually been a good deal of comments both thoughtful and worth considering in this thread. There has been some complaining, sure, but I really haven't gotten the sense that this was a bawww thread in the least. My input was what led to me not taking badging as seriously as I used to and then suggestions to try and make future "Master of" badges a bit more logical instead of resorting to gimmicks each time, because people are going to get tired of those gimmicks and we'll see participation on trials like Keyes and the Underground drop and participation on badge trials plummet. I think the Incarnate trials are actually pretty good, and I'd like to see them be successful for a long time.
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The badges listed in this thread are not them. As a point of fact every badge listed in this thread is obtainable, and all are not particularly difficult.
You can only wonder why they doth protest so much.
Oh I wouldnt go to far into the deconstruction. This entire thread exudes entitlement.
I've never been a big time badger but I did have one toon that I was slowly working on badges with. The iTrial badges have finally killed badging for me completely, for mostly the reasons others have already given.
The trial badges often require activities that run counter to completing the trial. Because of this the badgers tend to do badge runs when the trials first come out and if you miss that initial wave, you're probably never getting those badges. No one else wants to perform the badge requirements. They just want to get their emp/salvage and move on.
Then there is the fact that one person can, intentionally or through ignorance, kill a badge run for 23 other people. The best part is that in some cases you can't even tell who did it, which means you can't try again because you can't exclude the griefer.
So yeah I'm done. I'll still help others with badges occasionally but even for me badge run iTrials are usually a waste of time. Best of luck to those of you who are sticking with it.
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Please don't use Bug Hunter in any shape or form to to acknowledge your badger status, that badge is a load of croc, the amount of bugs that over the years I have pushed through to the devs on Open Beta's is uncountable, as I never used to be invited to Closed Beta's it pretty much wrote me off. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
By the way, if you've gotten the same badges I have twice, does that include Bug Hunter? |
That's a Devs favourite badge in my eye's and quite a few others and believe me when I say I'm never going to be a Dev favourite no matter what badge they are awarding for it.
Being European i'd be lucky to get my Global name back or get compensated like we were promised for losing them, I think my chances of getting Bug Hunter are ......... well i'll let you work out the math.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
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Sorry to hear that your badging pursuits have been largely ended due to itrial badges. While I have managed to secure those badges (including MoKeyes after four months of trying), I understand others' frustration in that regard. If it's any consolation, the two new itrial (MoM & TPN) badges are eminently obtainable by simply running the trial efficiently. None of the badges require activities which run counter to the design of the trial. I'm guessing this is an intentional shift by the devs in response to feedback to existing itrial badges. Mind you, this is just conjecture on my part.
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Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
I've never been a big time badger but I did have one toon that I was slowly working on badges with. The iTrial badges have finally killed badging for me completely, for mostly the reasons others have already given.
The trial badges often require activities that run counter to completing the trial. Because of this the badgers tend to do badge runs when the trials first come out and if you miss that initial wave, you're probably never getting those badges. No one else wants to perform the badge requirements. They just want to get their emp/salvage and move on. Then there is the fact that one person can, intentionally or through ignorance, kill a badge run for 23 other people. The best part is that in some cases you can't even tell who did it, which means you can't try again because you can't exclude the griefer. So yeah I'm done. I'll still help others with badges occasionally but even for me badge run iTrials are usually a waste of time. Best of luck to those of you who are sticking with it. |
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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Those Master Ofs pretty much killed my interest in badging. What little remained after Day Jobs that is. Tried Master Of Keyes last night and quite frankly, I wonder if the dev who thought up those badge requirements had ever actually played that horrendous trial. The no defeats/no temps were/are bad enough, but Keyes is just sadistic, IMO.
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Originally Posted by Spatch
Sorry to hear that your badging pursuits have been largely ended due to itrial badges. While I have managed to secure those badges (including MoKeyes after four months of trying), I understand others' frustration in that regard. If it's any consolation, the two new itrial (MoM & TPN) badges are eminently obtainable by simply running the trial efficiently. None of the badges require activities which run counter to the design of the trial. I'm guessing this is an intentional shift by the devs in response to feedback to existing itrial badges. Mind you, this is just conjecture on my part.
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As I've mentioned elsewhere, MoKeyes is easily the hardest master badge to acquire, IMO. Loves a Challenge is pretty hard. But Avoids The Green Stuff is.....yes, I think sadistic is the right word. Took me about 40 tries at it before success with a group of people intentionally trying for the badge. Green Stuff is not a badge a league will earn "by accident."
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Originally Posted by Dark One
Those Master Ofs pretty much killed my interest in badging. What little remained after Day Jobs that is. Tried Master Of Keyes last night and quite frankly, I wonder if the dev who thought up those badge requirements had ever actually played that horrendous trial. The no defeats/no temps were/are bad enough, but Keyes is just sadistic, IMO.
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Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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We were intentionally trying for it and well, I don't think I'm going to waste my time trying for it in the future. The sheer randomness of the beam placement combined with that low time (what is it? 15 seconds or thereabouts for it to happen) combined with needing to time when AM gets damaged. It's just not worth it. Like I said, I wonder if whoever designed that badge had ever actually played that trial.
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Originally Posted by Spatch
As I've mentioned elsewhere, MoKeyes is easily the hardest master badge to acquire, IMO. Loves a Challenge is pretty hard. But Avoids The Green Stuff is.....yes, I think sadistic is the right word. Took me about 40 tries at it before success with a group of people intentionally trying for the badge. Green Stuff is not a badge a league will earn "by accident."
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Either the argument "if I can get it you can get it" works for all of badges, or none of them. There's nothing I did to acquire that badge that anyone else couldn't have done. |
Originally Posted by Slazenger
Please don't use Bug Hunter in any shape or form to to acknowledge your badger status, that badge is a load of croc, the amount of bugs that over the years I have pushed through to the devs on Open Beta's is uncountable, as I never used to be invited to Closed Beta's it pretty much wrote me off.
That's a Devs favourite badge in my eye's and quite a few others and believe me when I say I'm never going to be a Dev favourite no matter what badge they are awarding for it. |
In fact, unlike many badges including the iTrial ones, Bug Hunter has no minimum requirements on the player at all except for brains and time. There is no requirement to team, no requirement to have level 50 characters, no requirement to participate in any content in particular.
Your perspective on that particular badge is no more legitimate than mine is on, say, Preservation Specialist.
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Heh. I completely get what you're saying. The group of folks I ran the Keyes with, we were continually revising our strategy, adding new rules as we went along. You can see what turned into a rather extensive list here:|
Originally Posted by Dark One
We were intentionally trying for it and well, I don't think I'm going to waste my time trying for it in the future. The sheer randomness of the beam placement combined with that low time (what is it? 15 seconds or thereabouts for it to happen) combined with needing to time when AM gets damaged. It's just not worth it. Like I said, I wonder if whoever designed that badge had ever actually played that trial.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=276365
I know one strategy used by others is to utilize the group teleport incarnate power. We personally never used it, but I've seen others post that they've used the strategy with success.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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I believe it does, invitation to Closed Beta's is one, being liked by the devs is another.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Bug Hunter has no minimum requirements. |
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
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Neither is a prerequisite for Bug Hunter. In fact, many of the early Bug Hunter awards I'm aware of satisfied neither requirement.
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Originally Posted by Slazenger
I believe it does, invitation to Closed Beta's is one, being liked by the devs is another.
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Neither necessarily helps, either. People in a position to give something that can be seen as 'favoritism' tend to be really cautious about doing things like that for people they like, specifically to try to mitigate that problem.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Neither is a prerequisite for Bug Hunter. In fact, many of the early Bug Hunter awards I'm aware of satisfied neither requirement.
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And I've been in more closed betas since joining the game (just after I11) than not, I've been active in reports both in and out of closed betas, and I don't have Bug Hunter either.
But then, I'm not terribly broken up about this fact, so maybe my opinion doesn't count.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Believe me when I say they are extremely cognizant of that problem, as am I. I would sooner forfeit an award than promote the appearance of impropriety.
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Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
Neither necessarily helps, either. People in a position to give something that can be seen as 'favoritism' tend to be really cautious about doing things like that for people they like, specifically to try to mitigate that problem.
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As I am in no position to prove otherwise, I leave it at that, but you can't blame a person who has constantly over the 7 years reported bugs and so forth to no avail, It would be interesting to know exactly what the requirements are, would save me the time I have already wasted in the past and possibly in the future. Otherwise what else is a person suppose to think?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Believe me when I say they are extremely cognizant of that problem, as am I. I would sooner forfeit an award than promote the appearance of impropriety.
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Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Slazenger
As I am in no position to prove otherwise, I leave it at that, but you can't blame a person who has constantly over the 7 years reported bugs and so forth to no avail, It would be interesting to know exactly what the requirements are, would save me the time I have already wasted in the past and possibly in the future. Otherwise what else is a person suppose to think?
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Just jumping into this conversation again, but I would say to the devs, "get rid of the Bug Hunter badge."
I can see their intent with it (hey, submit a big enough bug/enough bugs and you can show it off if you want to!) but...as others have said numerous times, it just seems like you get it at the "whim" of a dev.
I remember reading an article (post?) from Positron (I think it was him
) that said, "yeah we (I?) have given it to some that originally we weren't going to give it to but they asked for it, and then other times when they asked for it after submitted x bug they didn't get it because they asked for it."o_O
Maybe I'm totally wrong (the article/post was a good 3-4 years ago I think; and if I'm wrong then I apologize (once I get the Bug Hunter badge that is
)) but...just seems like you have to be friends with the devs to get it.Just not the best thing I think for the whole community. Either that or set an actual counter.
After x amount of bugs submitted (and they actually have to be bugs so that someone can't just type in /bug ahhaahah 50 times and get the badge) you get the badge.
Yes typo bugs/errors aren't "game breaking" like some of the other exploits that have been patched but they are still bugs/something that needs fixed (not saying all my /bugs are typo reports though
).Edit:
And I've been in quite a few closed betas but no Bug Hunter badge yet
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Which is my point: the argument works with all the badges or none of them. If you don't want me to blame you for not being able to acquire that one badge, then I would expect contrawise for you not to blame other people for being unable to get badges you could get.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
you can't blame a person
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There are people who believe its perfectly fine to dismiss any concern about anything acquirable in this game on the presumption that the fact they have it means there's no problem by definition. I have nothing but contempt for that attitude, and I have no problem using Bug Hunter or anything else to express my contempt for that attitude.
I personally don't feel any sense of superiority for possessing Bug Hunter: I've been on both sides of having and not having Bug Hunter, and I've defended that badge throughout that entire time as being interesting, but not proof of anything in particular from a gaming perspective. However, to the extent that someone believes their in-game accomplishments give them the right to judge other people's, I don't feel particularly bad about denigrating theirs relative to mine. Turnabout is fair play.
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Same, and I've found and reported a number of very exploitable bugs. One bug I spent a year trying to convince any redname from Ex Libris to Positron that it was a repeatable bug. I could repeat this particular bug 100% of the time, and expand salvage far beyond what was available at the time. One character could carry 120 salvage before Issue 21's upgrades.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
And I've been in quite a few closed betas but no Bug Hunter badge yet
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I accidentally found it on live and that character can still, without having bought any salvage storage increase, hold more than any regular character. I only did it once on live before I switched to the test server for further tests.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I found one like that on Live right after Invention Salvage was introduced. I only did it the once and then again to confirm that it was repeatable. Bugged it, sent a message to Positron (iirc), but I made the mistake of mentioning Bug Hunter. *shrug* I used to bug text errors and such all the time, but after a certain point, I just stopped caring enough to go to the work of it.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Same, and I've found and reported a number of very exploitable bugs. One bug I spent a year trying to convince any redname from Ex Libris to Positron that it was a repeatable bug. I could repeat this particular bug 100% of the time, and expand salvage far beyond what was available at the time. One character could carry 120 salvage before Issue 21's upgrades.
I accidentally found it on live and that character can still, without having bought any salvage storage increase, hold more than any regular character. I only did it once on live before I switched to the test server for further tests. |
I included a 2 page explanation, with pictures and reproduction steps with my PMs to the red names.
Edit:
I recently mentioned to a redname on the test server a glaringly obvious bug related to the market window that was fixed within 2 weeks (if you accessed the market window via the menu, the account/cart/etc buttons wouldn't show).
They didn't know about it, then they tested that themselves. It was immediately scheduled to be fixed, it seems.
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Only necessary if the method of doing it isn't simple. And this was very very simple. All it took was 3 lines to tell how to do it.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I included a 2 page explanation, with pictures and reproduction steps with my PMs to the red names.
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As Snow Globe will attest, its also not unexpected in any discussion about badge requirements. There were people who irrationally complained about any suggestion to lower Empath's requirements on the assumption that would lower the achievement of everyone else that farmed the heck out of it.
There will always be people who think that everything they don't like is proof of developer incompetence, and everything they do like is just perfect as it is. They can be annoying to a degree, but at least they don't matter to future direction of the game, because the devs really do sniff them out very quickly.
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