Wonder what the devs regret?
They probably regret 'baking in' the visual aspects of powers. With customization such a big part of the superhero genre, that has been a stop sign to so much.
They probably wish bunching up for AoE wasn't such an overwhelming successful strategy.
I think they probably regret some aspects of the IO system - the ability cap out defense and uber high recharge.
I doubt they regret most of these things (or if they do, I doubt they lose very much sleep). Overpowered systems aren't the worst thing that can happen.
It's presumptuous for me to say this, but I can see them regretting insular systems, like Gladiators, and to a lesser degree, the whole arena system. And maybe even PvP. Someone poured blood, sweat and tears into those systems, which in turn have probably not generated the kind of player interest and investment they hoped for. If I were a developer, I know I'd want to be able to point to a piece of work and go, "See, this is why we have high retention rates, this is why people keep coming back." THAT is something I'd lose sleep over.
I wonder if the Mission Architect was seen as a potential risk, going into it. If so, then I'm glad they took it, and anyone should be--take a look at this year's Players Choice Awards in the Mission Architect forum.
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Hmm one I KNOW is a dev regret, confirmed to people at a Q&A on the EU training server by Positron (back when EU and US were still seperate, infact it was back when the EU still had their own forums).
Positron said they regretted the way they had done the heroic Epic ATs, not in the sense of regretting ever having made Peacebringers and Warshades but regretted the way they were implemented and would have gone for something closer to the Soldiers/Widows of Arachnos given the chance (a force multiplyer kind of character, 1 of them is good, 3 of them is great, a full team is nigh unstoppable).
Now opinions on what they do regret.
1) Bothering with PvP at all, it was a pointless waste of time for the game, it started without PvP and the audience was never really there for it, it was always a very minor part of the game. The Gladiator system is basically pointless and hideously broken, it was the red headed step child to the already ignored subset of PvP.
2) The Mission Architect system, despite what Captain-Electric says, I reckon they do regret having wasted so much time, money and effort into a system which eventually required major nerfing in almost every patch since it was launched. The AE buildings have gone from thriving farm central to ghost towns over the course of that program. Despite a rare few like Captain-Electric, most players who aren't farming don't bother with the AE due to the lack of rewards compared to regular content.
It was a massive waste of dev time and effort IMO and I wouldn't be surprised if the devs now see it that way too.
3) Praetoria 1-20, who the hells bothers with it anymore now that you can select your starting point as hero or villain for any class without needed to go through Praetoria. Now it set up a lot of stuff later on so...I doubt this is a regret from the devs really.
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I don't think they'd ever admit it, but I think that the I13 PvP changes must cause them a few moments of regret
Also, launching AE without stricter controls to stop exploits, the public announcement of the City Vault, not introducing the Inventions sytem at the same time as ED, and having to pull the Alpha slot from GR - although that one was partly our fault
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I don't like to admit it (to myself or you), but I suspect you might be right about the Mission Architect. If Mission Architect was a mistake, then I'm glad they made it. I can't help but feel that way, but I know it's a selfish thing to say (if it was bad for them as a studio), like saying you're glad someone shot himself in the foot. But Issue 14 (the MA issue) is what brought me to City of Heroes. I remember the day my brother told me an online superhero game had come out with a modern day "Adventure Construction Set", a game that had captured my imagination when I was a kid.
I was playing on a trial account that evening. Since then, the MA has fulfilled most of my hopes and expectations, and continues to do so.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
I can't help but think in the powers development team they sometimes regret the cottage rule with older sets. I mean it's a good policy to stick to, but I can imagine each time a new set comes out and they see how well it does they bite thing nails and swear up and down at the older powerset that they might think could use having a power or two thrown out in exchange for something better.
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3) Praetoria 1-20, who the hells bothers with it anymore now that you can select your starting point as hero or villain for any class without needed to go through Praetoria.
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![Cool](images/smilies/cool.gif)
If our devs regret anything they've done in the game, I'd almost be willing to lay a bet on AE being the big one.
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I'd almost be willing to lay a bet on AE being the big one. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Didn't one of the devs mention something about the Gladiator system? Like how they didn't want to touch it...or what not?
I think, also, they mention that the whole hero->villain and vice versa is an issue that they wish they could easily fix. Meaning that's why there's no combined "hero/villain" Ouroboros because Ouroboros itself is a "hack" on how they did things or something to that extent...and why we probably will never see a combined Ouroboros (because the "system (engine?)" doesn't fundamentally know if you're a "hero" or a "Villain", it just assumes you're a "hero" from the beginning or something like that).
But I'd toss in, like others, the AE system as a whole as well as the i13 PvP changes possibly.
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The AE. Undoubtedly.
The amount of people Virtue lost after the AE babies swarmed in like a cloud of brain-damaged locust is staggering. Half of my global list back then sent emails saying "The game is a joke now, peace" and I never heard from them again.
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3) Praetoria 1-20, who the hells bothers with it anymore now that you can select your starting point as hero or villain for any class without needed to go through Praetoria. Now it set up a lot of stuff later on so...I doubt this is a regret from the devs really.
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I do.... and while I wouldn't call Praetoria (on Liberty at least-) a terribly busy set of zones, I rarely seem to have it all to myself, so I suspect I'm not alone.
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And what possessed them to put in all those hunt missions in the new hero/villain starting arcs?
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The AE. Undoubtedly.
The amount of people Virtue lost after the AE babies swarmed in like a cloud of brain-damaged locust is staggering. Half of my global list back then sent emails saying "The game is a joke now, peace" and I never heard from them again. |
Brain dead locusts might be good for quick infusions of cash (I don't know), but like your description implies (locusts), they are not sustainable, you can't retain them. If given everything they wanted, many of them would have left soon thereafter anyway, quickly becoming bored with it. Those people are a good target audience for the Xbox, not a subscription based game like City of Heroes. Positron never had any inclination to invest in that crowd (using AE). Maybe because they're a horrible investment.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
3) Praetoria 1-20, who the hells bothers with it anymore now that you can select your starting point as hero or villain for any class without needed to go through Praetoria. Now it set up a lot of stuff later on so...I doubt this is a regret from the devs really.
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I do.... and while I wouldn't call Praetoria (on Liberty at least-) a terribly busy set of zones, I rarely seem to have it all to myself, so I suspect I'm not alone.
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I also still make Praetorian characters. Sometimes the backstory/concept just screams "Praetorian", and the content is better than most of the ancient 5-20 stuff. Every time I am doing yet another kill all for Marshall Brass or whoever, I remember how rare kill alls are goldside.
And what possessed them to put in all those hunt missions in the new hero/villain starting arcs? |
It's the middle ground sweet spot of content for me. Engaging enough to be fun (if somewhat teeth-gnashing on a solo-unfriendly AT) but not as invasive as the newer Atlas Park/Mercy Island stuff which makes major assumptions on your character being human, vulnerable, stupid and the most tolerant being in the world for not saying 'pancake this pancake' and walking out the moment wannabes 'let you join them'.
I'd be playing it more often if I hadn't done my Full Content Run.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
2) The Mission Architect system, despite what Captain-Electric says, I reckon they do regret having wasted so much time, money and effort into a system which eventually required major nerfing in almost every patch since it was launched. The AE buildings have gone from thriving farm central to ghost towns over the course of that program. Despite a rare few like Captain-Electric, most players who aren't farming don't bother with the AE due to the lack of rewards compared to regular content.
It was a massive waste of dev time and effort IMO and I wouldn't be surprised if the devs now see it that way too. |
If our devs regret anything they've done in the game, I'd almost be willing to lay a bet on AE being the big one.
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It's something I never wanted for fear of getting terribly named mobs. Boy was I naive
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This is probably not the part that is regrettable (if AE is regrettable).
Brain dead locusts might be good for quick infusions of cash (I don't know), but like your description implies (locusts), they are not sustainable, you can't retain them. If given everything they wanted, many of them would have left soon thereafter anyway, quickly becoming bored with it. Those people are a good target audience for the Xbox, not a subscription based game like City of Heroes. Positron never had any inclination to invest in that crowd (using AE). Maybe because they're a horrible investment. |
It was THAT gigantic cloud of idiocy that drove a lot of really good players and RPers off of Virtue for good.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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If Mission Architect was a mistake, then I'm glad they made it. I can't help but feel that way, but I know it's a selfish thing to say (if it was bad for them as a studio), like saying you're glad someone shot himself in the foot. But Issue 14 (the MA issue) is what brought me to City of Heroes. I remember the day my brother told me an online superhero game had come out with a modern day "Adventure Construction Set", a game that had captured my imagination when I was a kid.
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And I totally agree about the Mission Architect. Even with its problems, I think it was totally worth it and still has a lot of untapped potential. The devs being game creators themselves, I can't help but think they feel the same way.
Brain dead locusts might be good for quick infusions of cash (I don't know), but like your description implies (locusts), they are not sustainable, you can't retain them. If given everything they wanted, many of them would have left soon thereafter anyway, quickly becoming bored with it. Those people are a good target audience for the Xbox, not a subscription based game like City of Heroes. Positron never had any inclination to invest in that crowd (using AE). Maybe because they're a horrible investment.
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It's the middle ground sweet spot of content for me. Engaging enough to be fun (if somewhat teeth-gnashing on a solo-unfriendly AT) but not as invasive as the newer Atlas Park/Mercy Island stuff which makes major assumptions on your character being human, vulnerable, stupid and the most tolerant being in the world for not saying 'pancake this pancake' and walking out the moment wannabes 'let you join them'.
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I would think some regret the way they've underestimated their players so often.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
PvP originally, PvP changes in i13, and AE.
Original PvP was fun. I used to spend hours and hours on my stalker in Warburg and RV.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
I would think some regret the way they've underestimated their players so often.
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They acted genuinely surprised that people were trying to use it to farm as fast as possible, if Posi's rather (in)famous blowup post is any indication.
But I don't know that they see the system itself as something they regret as much as how everything fell down around it.
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Or overestimated their players - case in point: AE.
They acted genuinely surprised that people were trying to use it to farm as fast as possible, if Posi's rather (in)famous blowup post is any indication. |
Agreed.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Yes, that is part of what I had in mind, in that they underestimated people's willingness and ability to manipulate the game to their own ends.
Agreed. |
If they couldn't see that people might possibly use a customizable mission creator to fight enemies that give the greatest reward with the least amount of risk, I'm very worried.
If they couldn't see that people might possibly use a customizable mission creator to fight enemies that give the greatest reward with the least amount of risk, I'm very worried.
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Also, I doubt anyone thought that no player would try it, but they probably didn't expect that so many would do it so efficiently.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I've asked the devs this question before at HeroCon and the Plummit.
Yes, the Arena/Gladiator concept was one of them. Several, however, said that what they regretted, they couldn't actually discuss (Hegner even says he's sworn to silence about SOMETHING or another).
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Every MMO's dev team has something they regret implementing.
In Everquest, Verant actually said that they wish they could take back "Complete Heal" from Clerics. That if they could have done it a second time, they would have never put it in game to begin with. This was back sometime in 2000-2004.
In World of Warcraft, Blizzard admitted to adding arenas having been a mistake that they wish they hadn't committed. Don't quite remember when this was mentioned.
In EVE, CCP has pushed back their human player models and placed that part of the game in the backburner leaving it in the incomplete state it currently is in. Although this isn't an outright admission like the other two, it is the most recent.
I ask myself that if they could, would they have done buffing/debuffing differently? There are already some hints that they would have, with that plan way back when to give them diminishing returns. Or if they would have made Defense harder to stack for non-defense sets? I recently thought of that as I was *walking* in RWZ with my /Elec Armor brute and with just one bubble that accidentally hit me, I was at 51% Lethal/Smashing defense.
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