Entrance Requirements for iTrials
I am feeling very silly now because when I was asked what my level was I also replied "50".
But I still was invited and joined in on the trial and was only asked if I had ever run it before and I told the asker I had not done any except in beta last year.
I have all but one incarnate power and upgraded 2 of them. Is there some way to see our 50+ level for ourselves?
total kick to the gut
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
To the OP: That is complete and total B.S.
First off, I hate discrimination of any kind, so this pisses me off right away.
Secondly, most people running trials now have been doing so with the same characters for a while. Which means that most characters are at least 50+1 (unless you're odd like me and don't feel any of your current 50s' concepts call for that level of power). So the majority of any league at this point will most likely be 50+, and unless you're doing a Master Of- run, I see no reason to call for that.
Got any server transfers stocked? Come over to Pinnacle. None of my current incarnates are plus-anything (for my own odd conceptual reasons), and I've never been shunned.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
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I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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Sounds to me like the recruiter was a feminine hygiene product.
On the rare occasions I form a trial, I let anyone in who can get in. Level 50 with nothing at all slotted or level 50+3 with tier 4s in every slot. It matters not at all to me.
I'd much rather play with people who have the same goal as me: Having fun playing a video game.
Playing with people whose goal is to complete something as quickly and impressively as possible, regardless of how they treat others to achieve said goal, make me not want to play the game.
OP: Ignore the recruiter who smells of a Summer's Eve and find a different group of people to play with who aren't so demanding that you play how they specify.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Oh yeah, waiting on shard drops? That's pointless, ridiculous and time consuming. Get in an BAF or Lambda where the person running it isn't a pain in the butt, and you can have your Alpha slot filled so quickly it isn't even funny. You're not at -4 on those, anyway. I haven't even run Keyes yet, and just off of running BAF and Lambda a few times (and extra threads/Astral merits from parts of the SSA), and I already have a Tier 3 Alpha, and Judgement and Interface are unlocked.
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And on-topic, I was in Pocket D yesterday and somebody was advertising for a sLAM (speed LAM) with the req 'must be +1 or higher' Someone else in broadcast mildly took him to task with the comment 'don't bring gearscore into CoH', and then he modified his invites with 'must know how to use temps' lol. We had more takers once the caveat was removed, and the sLAMs went easy.
I've also had a pleasant response from 'I'd like to join your UG but I don't have Clarion and i've never done the UG before', the leader replied 'no worries, we've all been where you are now, just follow instructions and you're good'. It's v nice to see that attitude from trialers IMO.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Slioghtly off-topic, but I find that I've been able to craft a needed tier 3 in about 2 or 3 BAF/LAMs, once I've got all slots unlocked. It doesn't seem that much grind is actually needed to get to a state where you can contribute.
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When I decide to do my first UG I crafted the T1 Clarion from left overs. Did 2 Keyes while waiting and moved it up to a T3.
I think as long as you remember you can convert one type of component into another it doesn't take long to get to a T3.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
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Playing with people whose goal is to complete something as quickly and impressively as possible, regardless of how they treat others to achieve said goal, make me not want to play the game.
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But there is a valid point to be considered here about being selective in some situations. As Irish Fury mentioned "A league full of normal level 50 toons wouldn't stand a chance against a 54+2 AV" and I would hardly want to waste my time trying for Master badges in that kind of situation.
Again I think in 99% of cases any concerns about "complete[ing] something as quickly and impressively as possible" is absolutely silly. But as long as recruitment is handled maturely and respectfully I think there are legitimate reasons for being picky like that in specific, clearly defined situations.
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Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
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I think forming leagues with enforced entrance requirements makes sense sometimes. For example, shooting for certain badges (not all of them, certainly) being +3 helps a lot. Beating down an enraged Marauder goes a lot faster with +3s. for example, and there's less chance of someone dying to Antimatter if he's +1 to them and not +4. I think the easiest thing to do is to make such requirements (or preferences) part of your recruiting broadcast. "Forming a badge <x>, prefer +3s, PST" or some such.
However, I don't think that's necessary for most leagues. I do think you need to pay attention to how many people with no level shifts you have on the league. Even a BAF can fail if you have too many +0s, and a UGT can be downright ugly.
Unfortunately, having level 54+2 AVs in the newest iTrials is going to be a problem for direct damage folks (as oppoed to support folks) who have no level shifts. Because of how little damage they're going to do against the AVs, I think they're going to be excluded more. I really do think people with low shift count should to stick to Lambda and BAF and maybe Keyes until they get one or preferably two shifts (or get their Alpha shift using TFs and WSTs). I realize there's other stuff in the new iTrials such characters can fight usefully, but I still expect unshifted folks to get increased grief from more trial leaders who get blinders about the AV fight.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
There are ingame requirements already for these, so I think using terms like discrimination and elitism is a tad hyperbolic. That said, a lot of the bad feelings can be avoided if the league leader use courtesy and careful planning.
1. Don't invite and then check requirements.
2. Be clear what you want up front when recruiting. Don't just announce a trial and sort it out after invites are given. Announce what you are doing and who you want to do it with you. Don't blanket announce and then sort; that makes people angry, and it should. For all they know its a normal trial run and you invited them. Nobody expects to be kicked after they join.
3. Only do this in situations where it makes a difference. Master runs, UG, new trials. There is no reason to slap a bunch of requirements on vanilla standard Lam or BAF runs.
4. Be fair and consistent. Don't kick one person for not having the requirements, but allow someone elsee along because, 'well I know they know what they are doing', 'they are a friend' or 'well its just the last spot'. Sometimes things slip through the cracks and you have to clean up a situation (they were out of zone and you thought they fit the requirements and didn't find out until later...yes sometimes people lie) If that happens see No. 5.
5. Most important- Be POLITE. There is nothing wrong with 'please, thank you and I'm sorry'. Don't just kick someone without a reason. I'd even contend once you invite (unless you physically can't start the trial) you are stuck with them (See No. 1) But if for some reason someone needs to go, be nice. It's totally free.
6. Have fun. Relax. No drama.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
People do get frustrated failing trials over and over; and sometimes the league does have too many +0's and not enough +3's for a harder trial. I can understand the occasional league trying to recruit only the highest incarnates for a trial. But, a few unshifted characters on a trial doesn't seem like a serious problem to me -- one of those +0s might be a very skilled player with powers that'll really help. Regardless, if a league's recruiter simply must have more shifted characters, I'd think it would be appropriate to say so in the recruiting message, so people don't join and get kicked right away.
This sort of rudeness has been leaking into CoH and not just for I-trials.
Last night was on a posi 1, unsurprisingly there were more titanic weapons present than in the average dodgy movie. So 5 brutes, tank, scrapper and blaster went in. A level 42 brute proceeded to die (the only death at that stage) complain about the debt and leave saying "recruit some support instead of me". I sent him a tell explaining that wasn't possible on a TF and it became clear he knew that, but wasn't prepared to play on that badly designed a team.
I have to say my experience of other MMOs is that it's much more common there. It's largely the absence of this sort of thing in CoH that keeps me here.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
In the Powers Combat Attributes window, under Base, toward the bottom along with inf, threat level, etc.
I do wish it would show somewhere in the experience bar, maybe along with all the other icons.... something.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
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It's easy enough to get +1 doing TFs. I don't know why you would bother going into a trial without that.
Not only will you appease those few groups that want higher people, but will also remove a good deal of the frustration and cut down the number of times you need to run the grind.
I am feeling very silly now because when I was asked what my level was I also replied "50".
But I still was invited and joined in on the trial and was only asked if I had ever run it before and I told the asker I had not done any except in beta last year. I have all but one incarnate power and upgraded 2 of them. Is there some way to see our 50+ level for ourselves? |
The easiest way for me to tell my level is to look at what I have crafted. Level shifts come from tier 3 alpha, lore and destiny. See how high you are on those trees, and you know how many shifts you have.
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"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
To the OP;
Their trial, their rules.
If you want to include unlevel-shifted people in an Incarnate Trial, run one yourself.
Everyone gets what they want.
Problem solved.
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Hey All,
Thanks for all the replies! There have been some very good points raised.
I guess it mainly comes down to rudeness. The Trial Leader did not state any entrance requirements in their post, and never replied to me after my initial reponse of my level. They carried on recruiting and ignored me. I was left wondering if the entrance requirements to enter a Trial had changed overnight.
Yes, it's true that the individual leading a trial can have their own set of requirements, but I don't believe that being rude to other players, and not communicating specific entrance requirements is any way to run a League.
I've been on alot of Trials with other characters of mine (level 50 to 50+3), and teamed with some fantastic leaders, I have even lead a few (although I find leading a Trial to be quite challenging at times).
Again, thanks for all of your comments, and thanks to all the good leaders out there, your efforts are often unrecognised, but they are greatly appreciated!
I can do 3-4 BAFs in the time it takes me to do 1 ITF. |
Not to stir the pot, but if they were recruiting for MoM I can understand them requiring level shifted participants. A league full of normal level 50 toons wouldn't stand a chance against a 54+2 AV.
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I'd also add Underground as another one where it makes some sense to wait until you've got a shift or two. Having run through that one a fair few times now with various types of leagues, it's a sad truth that having shifted characters can boost a group's chances of success by a lot. The difference between a heavily-shifted group and a lightly/non-shifted one on that trial is... well, it's probably much more accute than it ought to be, to be honest... It's like night and day.
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That chick what plays the bird-things...
It takes one ITF to get a T1 alpha if you're doing one of the recipes that uses that particular component or you happen to have the Vangard merits laying around. What time wasting TFs are you doing where you need to do 3 to get a T1 alpha?
But then you've done 3-4 BAFs, which is its own downside. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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Not to mention that 150 Vanguard Merits is a hell of a lot if you haven't participated in a mothership raid. Threads arguably drop more often.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Hey All,
Just a comment about joining iTrials: I'd be interested in hearing what the consensus is regarding entrance requirements for iTrials... I just tried to join a trial with my level 50 support character, and was turned down because I was too low a character. The trial leader had asked me my level, which I assumed meant they were checking to make sure someone below 50 didn't join the league. I was apparently wrong - I never heard back from the trial leader, and no, the Trial league was not full. They continued recruiting for the Trial league. I asked in broadcast, and was informed (probably by a League member) that I would not be accepted unless I was at least 50+. How is a level 50 support character going to get to level 50+ or higher if they are not even allowed in an iTrial. Yes, I know I could do a ton of task forces, etc but the iTrials tend to be a quicker way. I have seen many a person reach level 50, and start iTrials without first unlocking their Alpha slot. I suspect this situation I experienced is because the newer trials are so difficult that leaders are being more picky with who they invite. This does not make it easy for new level 50's to become Incarnate. ![]() Has anyone else had this happen to them? |
I can understand your pain.
I ran two MOM trials last night and after the second time (both failed; but the 2nd time we got to the final battle); I realized that there were quite a few that were only lvl 50+1 and not +3.
Now does that bother me? Not really.
I can see how that will hinder some others though because in the newest trials (TPN and MOM); the AVs you fight are lvl 54+2 (or is it +4?)...so if you're only 50+1 or even lvl 50...you'll do less damage, less chance of hitting, etc... than a lvl 50+3 would have.
Is that fair? Well...no but can't really do too much about it.
I do hope that in later trials there will be some sort of "need to have all 3 level shifts" requirement...
It's a sticky situation but...*shrugs* not sure what the best way to handle it is...having a req. for all 3 shifts is nicer for the leagues to form so that we know everyone is on the same playing field; but...then you have the lvl 50s, 50+1's, that can't get in because they're new to the game and now everyone is "done" with the BAFs, LAMs, etc...
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They may drop more often, but what they don't do is drop for the last 15 levels before you reach 50.
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Either way, getting a T1 in one TF only works if you select an Alpha that needs a Gr'ai Matter, and only 4 of the 8 Alphas do. Sure, you can grab a Cardiac or Spiritual and then move on to collecting for what you really want, but that really only helps for Apex and Tin Mage; a 50 with a T1 Alpha is not significantly more powerful than a 50 without. And if the best T3 for you is a path that doesn't include any Gr'ai Matters at all, it's a long road.
There's another problem with TFs other than the length: they only grant you one component. If your Alpha requires the Penumbra of Rularuu, your choices are to find a CoP or grind for the shards. Sorry, no sidegrading. For each TF you have trouble getting a group for or don't want to run, that's an extra 4 shards.
Trials, on the other hand, give you a choice of components. Run 3 trials, doesn't matter what they are, and boom, you can make any Alpha you want, assuming common components at the end of each. It's easier to get the uncommon for T2, too, since you're likely to earn a badge and a random uncommon which you can sidegrade.
Personally, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of going into trials without my Alpha level shift, so I make the effort to run TFs. But if you can get into the trials, they're undeniably faster.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
At my most strict I would only STRONGLY PERFER all people in a league to already be 50+ if I'm involved with a specific attempt at a Master badge run. I think it's only fair to the people trying to get the hard badges that all the characters involved are as capable as possible to maximize the chances for success at getting those badges.
But even then (as Liz Bathory mentioned) I think almost any league can tolerate a few non-maxed out characters. Ultimately this game is not THAT hard that it requires 100% perfectly min/maxed characters in all situations.
Bottomline if specific Master badges are not an issue then I think just about any reasonable PUG can finish any given iTrial. Even the two new trials will eventually become "routine" for 99% of the leagues who run them. Any league organizer who's being any more picky than that is simply being too anal/dictatorial about it. *shrugs*
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀