When will Praetoria end??????

To the OP: it's just you.

D'oh! Well, we should still be able to take on Clockwork and PPD right....

>.>

<.<

He's used the Well to empowered his whole army - which is why the Admiral Sutter TF seems so weird level-wise - it's presented as a part of the Praetorian invasion, but it's put in the 20-40 level range, which doesn't make sense at all for Primal Earth or Praetoria - even if you play it at 40, you still get Maria Jenkins 5 levels later talking about the possibility of the Praetorian invasion - and for Praetorians, it comes firectly after they escape to Primal Earth at 20 - which leavs no gap at all between Marchand telling loyalists that's there's a chance they could stop the invasion and the invasion actually starting.
Without Sutter, the story flows logically from 1-50 for Primals and Praetorians - Primals get some interaction with Praetorian scouts during the ongoing training missions 5-20, then the option for First Ward at 20-30, which has no mention of the invasion in it, then 40-45 with Tina Macintyre and 45-50 with Maria Jenkins, both with heavy foreshadowing of the invasion, then the Apex Incanrate and Tin Mage TFs for the invasion, followed by the Trials for our counterattack - Praetorians follow the same path, except that the 1-20 GR content replaces the 5-20 ongoing training missions.

Although the TFs and Trials can be played in any order, the correct story sequence is Apex, Tin Mage, BAF, Lambda, Keyes, UG, TPN, MoM.

and Tyrant is the Well's Champion because....?

that's my complaint really

I don't see why Incarnates were tied to Praetoria, other than because they were. If that makes sense to you.

For a start, he's the only person prepared to serve the Well on its terms, and he's the only person not to put a limit on his power or how he uses it.

Why shouldn't he be? Your question doesn't really make any sense to me at all because it's completely meaningless.

So they dont have 20 different stories going on at once, with players then complainging about there not being one solid enemy group?

It's lose/lose no matter what they do.

Why not? The character was more than willing.

Was there some player character that was willing to have their control taken from them?

Has anyone ever, in the history of this game, complained about that? "Oh no, I fight Vazhilok and then Freakshow and then Nemesis, it just doesn't MAKE SENSE!"

Anyway, I'm with Night-Hawk. The exclusionary nature of the Praetorian invasion means that for 97% of the game, it might as well not be happening, so I'm just going to keep on ignoring it.

Yes! yes they have! they've complained about everything!

"There is no Diabolique, only MOT!"

The same Mot who's trying to control our children with apple products?



You're not fooling anyone with that extra 't' buddy!

Catch-22. Tyrant never was the Well's chosen champion until after they had already decided to gate everything behind Praetorian content. The Well was intelligent (which I feel was a mistake initially) when the Alpha slot came out, but the story about Tyrant being the Well's Champion never popped up until Prometheus popped into Ouroboros as the BAF and Lambda trials came out.

So was it a marketing decision (gate the Incarnate content only to those who bought Going Rogue, then come up with a reason why it has to be Praetorian) or was it the idea all along? If it was the first, I can cut the writers some minor amount of slack; if it was the second then the idea was idiotic mary-suing of the highest order, retconning a years-old story just for the sake of "but the Well has to select a champion, and I want it to be this one!". Literally anything could have been chosen. Or, better yet, have the Well not be sentient and come up with cosmic-order entities that don't have some random justification of "we have to have a champion!".

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Name one enemy group that does have a reason to be Incarnate Content? Archanos is the only one I can think of.

The Reason why Praetoria is being used as the Incarnate content is as follows:

A gaming developement rule is any new project should be used in as often as possible in order to be green lighted.

Alot of time and developement went into the Going Rogue art assets. These art assets are now being used for the Incarnate trials, because they have these very attractive maps and they want to use them more.

If the Wells Champion could be anyone, why not Cole? He was a good of a choice as anyone.

a) The art assets are being used in other locations as well.
b) This turns it into a marketing (or, more specifically, financial) decision, not a lore one - to get the money/green-light to do Going Rogue, they had to incorporate it into the otherwise totally unrelated end-game content. Which is what I said in my first post.
c) Financial realities aside, I was hoping for more as an Incarnate than the same enemies you can fight, not just from level 40-50, but also from level 1-20.
d) It's not a hard and fast rule, nor should it be in order to make a quality product.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

IDF don't spawn from level 1-20, and you don't get to fight any of Tyrant's lieutenants as a Praetorian since, y'know, they would curbstomp you.

Mu, CoT, and Rularru!

... huh?

Mu and the CoT are busy fighting their own private little millennias-old war and have, to the best of my knowledge, absolutely nothing to do with the Well of the Furies. And Rularuu? Uhm...

I'll help you out: He's a world-eating God. Kind of like Galactus or Unicron.

They both have gods under their belt, who by my understanding of the Well of Furies and the incarnate content, thusly linked to the well.

If all powers come from the well, then the Mu and CoT god(s) would be linked to the well, and be gods/incarnates themselves.

Mind you, I have no problem with the Praetorian storyline myself. Though, as I've stated before, for where theyre going with it, my main would of done it differently (like Katie never would of went back into the box...so I dont run that content with my main).

I didn't put down or berate you about anything you wanted/discussed... at least, that wasn't the intention...

No, the point I was makin' was... I wouldn't have admitted I got punked by a turret. Although I admit, perhaps I haven't yet seen the *Unethical Turret powered by the Dark Side, black holes, and Despair*, of which even my mentioning it has caused every character I have to lose 1/2 their XP the next time they log in. Mentioning it by name twice, well, they'll wind up unconcious in the hospital, and unable to revive for 10 minutes, right?

I've not had the pleasure. If they exist, then maybe you need to say WHICH turrets we're talking about then. Even the ones surrounding Praetoria take several hits to kill ya, but then you're just being stubborn... like I was with Homeslicer, who now has that badge.

But excepting this amazing turret of Beatdown and Loss, I'm not typing "Being offed by a turret in a trial is not epic!"

/Moar content is always welcome.
//Especially if it were to involve Boomtown at a 30ish level, maybe.
///Or maybe just involve Boomtown in general. It seems so... forlorn... for such a big zone.
////That, and the Shadow Shard seems awfully bereft...
/////Hm... maybe I'll just hit this shiny red button... this candy like, shiny red button.... *smack* **is ejected from this thread violently**

You curbstomp the lieutenants prior to - or as you are - hitting 50, and threaten them (via blackmail) as early as level 10 with no reprisal. Until they decided to retcon everything, you curbstomped Tyrant as well.

And seers and praetorian police are something you can/do fight prior to level 20, and there's no significant difference that I've noticed between the clockwork other than the enemy group name. Yet they're all elevated to incarnate level for no good reason other than a handwave as well.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

No, Tyrant as the insane Well's champion was not the idea all along. It was an idea they pulled out of their butts when players complained that we would need multiple teams to beat up the guys we've been curbstomping since issue 1.

Why does the Well need a champion? Why can't the well remain the inanimate object it originally was?

Yes, that's right, they have nothing to do with the Puddle of Annoyance. They also have a lot of background that justifies them suddenly stepping up their threat level, without having to resort to the "a crazy cosmic puddle loves him!" ***-pull they had to use to make powering up the Praetorians to their current level even remotely make sense.

Edit: The puddle doesn't have to have anything to do with the Incarnate system either. Just because it is a means to godlike power, doesn't mean it has to be the only means. There is no such thing as "the" lore explanation for any mechanic until someone decides to write one. And considering the lore explanations we got for power proliferation, the flashback system, and AE, you would think they would have learned to not do that.