When will Praetoria end??????
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-11-27 01:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Teasing by the Devs has indeed hinted otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
Au contraire, Yoda, despite your
 , YES IT IS. |
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Teasing by the Devs is also what put the oil spill off the coast of Port Oakes in the shape of an Eye of Horus. Hint hint.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Teasing by the Devs has indeed hinted otherwise.
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For all the good that does anyone.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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That was pre-City Vault |
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Teasing by the Devs is also what put the oil spill off the coast of Port Oakes in the shape of an Eye of Horus. Hint hint.
For all the good that does anyone. |
Since the City Vault announcement and the problems they discovered after they with it after they went public, plus the earlier problems with the unused universities and the rocket launch sites under construction, War Witch has said that they now only announce or talk about stuff that's already 90-95% done - that's why, for example, the first we heard about a DA makeover also included screenshots apaprently showing that the whole zone was either already completed, or pretty close to it - or why we didn't hear about the Keyes or UG Trials until they were ready for beta, even though they'd been developed at the same time as BAF and Lambda - or ever heard a hint about an Atlas Park revamp until the I21 announcement, even though they started work on it right after GR launched.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
One of the extremely irritating aspects of the Incarnate lore is that in order to get the additional powers, you have to join up with the sentient, insane, etc. Well of Furies. The problems with this lore have been previously set forth at length. I initially thought I could just ignore it, but the Devs keep upping the ante on it, and now I just do not want to mess with it.
I would welcome another way to have additional powers that was not as problematic lore-wise as the Well. WELCOME IT, I say.
That being said:
"The Well isn't the only way" is currently a false statement. No matter how much the Devs have "teased," etc., you have to deal with the Well to get the extra powers in the game. In one of the Wiki articles, someone once pointed out that Hero 1 had apparently gotten his Incarnate powers in another fashion, and the Devs looped back around and made sure that the Well was the source there, too.
"There will be another path" is good news, but that is currently as inaccessible as Christmas Day.
"The Well isn't the only way"=/= "There will be another path," no matter how many winkies are added. Until it hits the game, the non-Well path does not exist. Right now, the Well IS THE ONLY WAY and right now it IS NOT Christmas Day, although one day it WILL BE Christmas Day.
If there is some documentation somewhere for a non-Well path, I would gladly look at it if someone will link it.
All of this craptacular lore problem could have been avoided by dialing 1-800-HICKMAN. It is not as though the Devs do not know the number.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
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Originally Posted by fallenz
It will end in fire.
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_________
@Inquisitor
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To be fair, the City Vault was 95% done when they scrapped it. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That was pre-City Vault
Since the City Vault announcement and the problems they discovered after they with it after they went public, plus the earlier problems with the unused universities and the rocket launch sites under construction, War Witch has said that they now only announce or talk about stuff that's already 90-95% done - that's why, for example, the first we heard about a DA makeover also included screenshots apaprently showing that the whole zone was either already completed, or pretty close to it - or why we didn't hear about the Keyes or UG Trials until they were ready for beta, even though they'd been developed at the same time as BAF and Lambda - or ever heard a hint about an Atlas Park revamp until the I21 announcement, even though they started work on it right after GR launched. |
Personally, I like long-term hints at what they are working on better than the "we will tell you what it is after you bought it!" approach. Even if it's occasionally something that doesn't make it in.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
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You prefer it, yes, but they don't. Mostly because a lot of players feel the Devs word is a signed contract and any time they don't fulfill some part of their word, they will be harped on endlessly for it. So I think it's pretty understandable that they don't release much info on the long term except broad design philosophies because, simply put, people take soft promises as signed and sealed deals, so even if they don't work out players will bug them about it for years down the line.
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
To be fair, the City Vault was 95% done when they scrapped it.
Personally, I like long-term hints at what they are working on better than the "we will tell you what it is after you bought it!" approach. Even if it's occasionally something that doesn't make it in. |
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Thank you. I did not know that. |
Originally Posted by Agent White
You prefer it, yes, but they don't. Mostly because a lot of players feel the Devs word is a signed contract and any time they don't fulfill some part of their word, they will be harped on endlessly for it. So I think it's pretty understandable that they don't release much info on the long term except broad design philosophies because, simply put, people take soft promises as signed and sealed deals, so even if they don't work out players will bug them about it for years down the line.
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Do you even know the story of the City Vault? It was supposed to be something vaguely like the WoW armoury.
Like, the day before launch they went "Whoops, we ran into a technical issue and have to delay the launch of the City Vault. We'll let you know when it's ready." and that was the last official mention of the City Vault ever*
That you wait 'till the very last minute to tell anyone about it is no guarantee.
*) Warning: Dramatization.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
The Rikti Content lasted forever. Praetoria's a fresh start. Especially since it's not a nemesis plot.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Blue on red. Ow my eyes |
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
The Rikti Content lasted forever. Praetoria's a fresh start. Especially since it's not a nemesis plot.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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Or is it? The Rikti had been around a LONG time before it was clear just how the conflict started.
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
The Rikti Content lasted forever. Praetoria's a fresh start. Especially since it's not a nemesis plot.
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_________
@Inquisitor
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
The Rikti Content lasted forever. Praetoria's a fresh start. Especially since it's not a nemesis plot.
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I fail to see how the Rikti content lasted forever. You have the pre i10 stuff, then you have Issue 10. At that point no new Rikti related content was added to the game but two Rikti related events stayed in the game(Mothership Raid and Zone invasions).
Compare to Praetoria we have the Portal Corp Arcs
then I18 and Going Rogue,
Then Issue 19 with Apex and Tin Mage,
then Issue 20 with BAF and Lambda,
then 20.5 with Keyes,and the Sutter TF
then 21 and Freedom with Underground,First Ward and an appearance in the Twinshot Arc
So how is it that the Rikti content lasted forever if it was contained to 1 update?
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/this. |
Originally Posted by DMystic
I fail to see how the Rikti content lasted forever. You have the pre i10 stuff, then you have Issue 10. At that point no new Rikti related content was added to the game but two Rikti related events stayed in the game(Mothership Raid and Zone invasions).
Compare to Praetoria we have the Portal Corp Arcs then I18 and Going Rogue, Then Issue 19 with Apex and Tin Mage, then Issue 20 with BAF and Lambda, then 20.5 with Keyes,and the Sutter TF then 21 and Freedom with Underground,First Ward and an appearance in the Twinshot Arc So how is it that the Rikti content lasted forever if it was contained to 1 update? |
The only thing I heard people complaining about "lasting forever" was the fairly common string of rikti invasions at that issue launch.
This incarnate/well/praetoria nonsense is bad enough in it taking this long. It's worse in that it's corrupting *other, perfectly fine* lore. "Oh, the COT and Mu had gods? It's the well." Bull.
Honestly, it's a good thing we have the Leviathan mastery patron powerset. Plenty to jump over the way things are going.
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
as far as "taking this long", I'd rather have it be worked on until completion instead of having a thread hanging for years on end while something else gets worked on. Although it wouldn't surprise me if they left Praetoria just short of being finished when they move onto Battalion.
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And this is why I'm with the OP.|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Praetoria will end when Tyrant is defeated, Praetorian Hamidon is defeated, a new system of government is put into place, and there's enough content to go from 1-50 within Praetoria.
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Read that quote out loud. It just sounds so...I dunno...rote. If I want to worry about putting a 'new system of government' into place, I'll watch the news. And if the devs are committed to spending a majority of their time stuffing in more Praetoria zones for enough content from 30-50 (i.e., past First Ward), I'll be exiting stage left (again). It's not just content I want to play. Purely a personal choice....but one that I'm not entirely alone in making.
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Blue on blue/grey ain't much better |
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Blue on red. Ow my eyes
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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More so what I meant. It was like having the halloween event for a really long time.
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Originally Posted by Stormbird
/this.
The only thing I heard people complaining about "lasting forever" was the fairly common string of rikti invasions at that issue launch. |
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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It's blue on blue for me. I'm using the default skin though lmao.
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Blue on red. Ow my eyes
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
That's certainly a more understandable argument, however I'd say all the new Praetorian content combined is a bit worse than the constant invasions which lasted a couple of weeks instead of a couple of issues
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I definitely agree. I just want them to at least end it with full effort than spend this much time on it and just pull a "andthenthegoodguyswontheend" out of nowhere.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
That's certainly a more understandable argument, however I'd say all the new Praetorian content combined is a bit worse than the constant invasions which lasted a couple of weeks instead of a couple of issues
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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OK, I'll admit, I just called that number to see what would happen, and it just kept ringing (try it!). Then I figured that must be because I'm not there to answer it...
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Originally Posted by Melancton
All of this craptacular lore problem could have been avoided by dialing 1-800-HICKMAN. It is not as though the Devs do not know the number.
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Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
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"We've traced the call to... INSIDE OF YOUR HOUSE!" *cue "Psycho" music*|
Originally Posted by TroyHickman
OK, I'll admit, I just called that number to see what would happen, and it just kept ringing (try it!). Then I figured that must be because I'm not there to answer it...
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Darn it all, Troy, I was making a metaphorical point and you went all literal on me.
It is not as though nobody else has written anything for CoH that has been good; the point is that when you ask a typical player with a good bit of time under their belt what their favorite bits of CoH writing are, your arc (in-game and comic book) will be mentioned in the top three at worst and very, very often at Number One. There has been PLENTY of writing in CoH that has gotten bombed by the playerbase and your CoH stuff is mentioned in that regard only by contrarians trying to get attention.
The Incarnate lore is a huge, poorly-written mess which has finally irked me to the point that I do not want to play it.
Why have a proven team player who got fantastic results riding the bench when that content is being conceived and written? Have the Zuni-lover at least consult on it, even if you are not going to hand him the reins. But handing him the reins is the Smart Move. That statue of Cyrus Thompson is there in Kings Row for many excellent reasons.
The point of all of this is not to make you blush and dig your toe in the sand and say, "Aw, shucks," but rather to point out the Solution to the Problem. Given your track record, I think you could have produced Incarnate lore as compelling and enjoyable as your other work. And you could ultimately fix the mess to where so many folks were not saying "Blecch!" along with me.
(Of course, perhaps it IS only a problem for ME. It could be that the vast, vast majority would play the Incarnate content even if you were required in-game by the lore to join the Nazi Party and wear a plumber's plunger as a hat, without being bothered in the least, because they never read it, etc.)
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
The Rikti (by the old story lines that I ran way back in 2004) were the biggest threat. They killed all the heroes and decimated Paragon. The war walls are up because of the Rikti.
Matter of fact when I saw the Vanguard issue coming up...I was like: UGH, Rikti AGAIN??!
I was sick of them and I never found them interesting.
The Praetorians were sorta neat in portal missions....I thought it'd be another boring enermy group, but then I ran a hero through praetoria....and it was fun and interesting with new spins. I like these antagonists....but, yes, I would like a new BIG threat. (BTW: when are we gonna see GW, LR, Mako, and BS from Praetoria. Will good GW have a goatee??!)
Mr. True Shot.
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
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We've already seen Praetorian Ghost Widow |
Originally Posted by Mr_True_Shot
(BTW: when are we gonna see GW, LR, Mako, and BS from Praetoria. Will good GW have a goatee??!)
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork