So will Titan Weapons finally overshadow Super Strength?
By
BigBlackAfrica,
Posted on: 2011-11-20 18:58 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
It has a chance, but the mechanics of the set and lack of rage may make it a non-contender. However, it is possible the amount of time lost through Momentum will be equal to the amount of time lost through Rage, so they may be equal. Think about it this way:
If you can activate 3 powers per Momentum, you lose roughly 1 seconds worth of momentum damage per cycle. That would be a 2.5 second attack followed by three 1-1.5 second attacks, or 4 1-1.5 second attacks and 1 second of pause. That means you lose 1 second a cycle at least, or a loss of one second's worth of damage every 6ish seconds.
Assuming double stacked rage, you would lose 10 seconds of attacking every 60 seconds, or a lose of 1 seconds worth of damage every 6 seconds.
The difference is the +damage from Rage, and the ability to use patron's AoEs without the redraw penalty.
So TW should get close, but not overcome SS.
TW/Elec Optimization
Well some other thoughts to toss out too:
1) Not all the attacks are 2.5 cast time, one of them is 2.0 and hits very hard so that would be good for a momentum starter.
2) The attacks in Titan Weapons deal nearly twice the base damage of Super Strength attacks including the cones. The only exception is Defensive Sweep which deals a little less then Super Strength's Punch.
2A) Of course KO Blow does more damage then TW's hardest hitting attack by about 15 more base damage (Or about 1 brawl index.) However, that attack in TW has a one second animation and reduces Damage Resistance and Defense by 10%
3) Two of the attacks can take the -Res Proc from Achilles Heel for 20% more damage.
4) The cones aren't something to sneeze at either like other melee cones, when I was testing it the arc is so wide it can hit a target almost behind you.
5) The Buildup in Titan's Weapons is the same stats as Street Justice but grants *FIFTEEN 15* seconds of Momentum...
Anyways, have you considered any of this?
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Correction, there used to be no such thing. The delay you speak of was caused by weapon attacks taking the same amount of time to cast whether your weapon was drawn or not. Now all sets (sans Spines/Thorns, iirc) have removed that extra activation time, but now when they redraw their weapon actually adds time to the powers activation.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Edit: Redraw Penalty? There is no such thing. The only changes to redraw was to smooth out animations to make it eliminate the pause at the end. For there to be a penalty, there would have to be two separate animations. Maybe Arcanaville can chime in
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In other words:
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
How it used to work:
Redraw: 1s Animation: 3s Weapon Out: Animate power (3s) then sit in the idle position (1s) Weapon Sheathed: Animate redraw (1s) then animate power (3s) Result: Power always takes 4s to animate. The redraw penalty is baked into every attack, but there is no cost to redraw when playing. How it works now: Redraw: 1s Animation: 3s Weapon Out: Animate power (3s) Weapon Sheathed: Animate redraw (1s) then animate power (3s) Result: Power is much stronger because it doesn't have a built in delay. There is now a cost to redrawing your weapons when playing. |
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You are right, I went back to my old question and you are correct.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Correction, there used to be no such thing. The delay you speak of was caused by weapon attacks taking the same amount of time to cast whether your weapon was drawn or not. Now all sets (sans Spines/Thorns, iirc) have removed that extra activation time, but now when they redraw their weapon actually adds time to the powers activation.
In other words: |
Any idea when it was implemented? What issue?
Also what is the animation times of powers with redraw now? Basically, in the in game animation time is that the animation time with or without redraw? (IE, if you were looking at Katana or Broadsword set)
At the least, I think TW can give SS a run for its money, with its multiple fast AoE attacks. It may not ultimately prove superior, since Rage also boosts things like Burn and epic pool attacks, while TW would prefer to avoid using those altogether due to redraw and Momentum. I'm guessing the margin won't be huge either way.
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Ok and I am back again, doing some testing on test again with Titan Weapons, what is redraw time around?|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Correction, there used to be no such thing. The delay you speak of was caused by weapon attacks taking the same amount of time to cast whether your weapon was drawn or not. Now all sets (sans Spines/Thorns, iirc) have removed that extra activation time, but now when they redraw their weapon actually adds time to the powers activation.
In other words: |
I am gaining momentum and then undrawing my weapon, I notice the animation is a lot like Fire Melee or Stone Melee, essentially there is no redraw the weapon appears during the animation.
I'm testing it and it doesn't appear for TW to cause a longer animation.
Anyone else tested this?
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No, because clickies severely hurt TW from my testing. Clickie, then pull out your weapon, then start up your slow momentum builder, repeat.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Do people think TW/Fire will be the new farming build?
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EDIT: nvm, I just read what everyone else said
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Interesting... just hopped on beta and confirmed this myself. TW doesn't appear to have a redraw animation during Momentum (or if it does, it's so short that I can't tell the difference). There's definitely a redraw delay outside of Momentum, though.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Ok and I am back again, doing some testing on test again with Titan Weapons, what is redraw time around?
I am gaining momentum and then undrawing my weapon, I notice the animation is a lot like Fire Melee or Stone Melee, essentially there is no redraw the weapon appears during the animation. I'm testing it and it doesn't appear for TW to cause a longer animation. Anyone else tested this? |
To the first part of your question, I'm not sure of the exact duration of redraw. It might be different for different sets - Broadsword/War Mace/Battle Axe/etc all seem to use the same draw animation and thus are presumably the same length, but I remember Claws being faster (haven't played my Claws in a long time though, so maybe my mind is playing tricks).
Does TW's AoE allow for the FF+rech proc? If it does not SS/ still wins...it really is that simple. It's actually the biggest reason SS/ is king...both claws/ and fire/ an AoE that is better than FS, but neither of them get the proc.
Rage? In general its pretty good, when it comes to general play its the +tohit thats the best, but if ur using reds its not all that useful.
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Honestly, it may come close or even surpass it. I'm still (probably) not going to play it.
I'm just not a huge fan of "combo" systems.
Dual Blades is the parent of these combo-based sets and I can barely tolerate it. In things like Street Justice and Titan Weapons start making me scream "MORTAL KOMBAT!!!"
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While Footstomp is a great AoE...I actually prefer more options and variety.
I love Super Strength...it's my favorite set conceptually...but I absolutely hate having to spam one attack just to be viable.
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Maybe on a Tank, but it would take a ton of reds to put a Brute so close to the cap that you don't benefit from Rage. You might get that many on an ambush farm but I doubt you would in any non-AE setting and I'm assuming that AE nerfs will continue until at some point farming does move back to normal missions.
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Originally Posted by ultrawatt
Rage? In general its pretty good, when it comes to general play its the +tohit thats the best, but if ur using reds its not all that useful.
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Yes. I have one in mine in beta, of course one has to have Momentum up to use it, but at decent recharge it's getting spammed pretty often. I don't have a high level ss/fire, but my gut feeling is that footstomp still wins though.
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Originally Posted by ultrawatt
Does TW's AoE allow for the FF+rech proc?
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Can't Titan Weapon be taken with Shield Defense? I seem to recall that it cannot. I'll just interject here that I really love the damage Buff that Against All Odds gives me, as well as the extra AoE from Shield Charge.
I know Tanks are out of fashion for many, but I can see TW becoming a go to set over SS for Tankers with ease. Between the many cones, decent damage output, and the fact that the AoE is Tier 8 instead of Tier 9 will make the set a very attractive secondary.
As others have stated above, I don't see it being superior to SS on a Brute. I've so far only tested it on Tanks and it is an awesome set for that AT.
Being a two handed weapon TW cannot be used with SD.
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Scrapper level ST DPS, with 4 AOE attacks (1 PBAOE, 3 120 Degree Cones), added with Tanker survivability. I think TW Tankers will become very popular.
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Originally Posted by BigBlackAfrica
I know Tanks are out of fashion for many, but I can see TW becoming a go to set over SS for Tankers with ease. Between the many cones, decent damage output, and the fact that the AoE is Tier 8 instead of Tier 9 will make the set a very attractive secondary.
As others have stated above, I don't see it being superior to SS on a Brute. I've so far only tested it on Tanks and it is an awesome set for that AT. Being a two handed weapon TW cannot be used with SD. |
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That sounds absurd...and like a nerf waiting to happen.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Scrapper level ST DPS, with 4 AOE attacks (1 PBAOE, 3 120 Degree Cones), added with Tanker survivability. I think TW Tankers will become very popular.
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Is it designed to be the best?
...because that's what you're describing.
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Well using Gloom with any non weapon set, I believe helps get other sets to Scrapper level damage.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
That sounds absurd...and like a nerf waiting to happen.
Is it designed to be the best? ...because that's what you're describing. |
One might think Fire Armor/TW will be awesome, and possibly will be, but that's still requiring you to click Fiery Embrace and Burn at the right times.
Also, while I say Scrapper level ST DPS, I mean low end (better than Spines and Electric Melee).
Also, I could be wrong on that, it's just what my math is leading me to believe, also I have no idea the +RCH needed to achieve that level of ST DPS, which if it's a lot can make getting OMG survival levels a bit harder to achieve.
Also, there's pairing those 1 handed weapon/no weapon sets with Shield for AAO, which I think would help pull other sets to such levels of ST DPS (especially non weapon sets that throw in Gloom).
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no, titan weapons is a 2 handed weapon set like katana and mutually exclusive with shield
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Can't Titan Weapon be taken with Shield Defense? I seem to recall that it cannot. I'll just interject here that I really love the damage Buff that Against All Odds gives me, as well as the extra AoE from Shield Charge.
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Titan Weapons does not use any kind of combo system whatsoever. It just speeds up additional attacks after any of the first attack you choose hits. It's pretty brainless.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Honestly, it may come close or even surpass it. I'm still (probably) not going to play it.
I'm just not a huge fan of "combo" systems. Dual Blades is the parent of these combo-based sets and I can barely tolerate it. In things like Street Justice and Titan Weapons start making me scream "MORTAL KOMBAT!!!" |
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I believe all of the AoEs except Defensive Sweep actually take the FF proc.|
Originally Posted by ultrawatt
Does TW's AoE allow for the FF+rech proc?
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So thats 1 foot stomp sized PBAoE and 2 x 5 target max, 120 degree cones.
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Any attack system that modifies subsequent attacks is technically a combo system.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Titan Weapons does not use any kind of combo system whatsoever. It just speeds up additional attacks after any of the first attack you choose hits. It's pretty brainless.
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I'd point out specifics in how this applies to TW but apparently Beta choked on the last update and is now slurping in 2GB of files...oh joy.
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Originally Posted by Starflier
I am so ready for this set so I can wreck some face with Mourning Star and Samurhinoceros.
Numbers be damned, I just want to hit bad guys. |
I noticed the AOE in Titan Weapons has the same radius, target cap, and animates in 1 second compared to SS's FS of 2.10. On top of that, it has a ton of cones with momentum that have 120 degree arcs that can animate in 1 second with momentum.
Titan's Weapon AOE also hits as hard as the Super Strength equal.
Do people think TW/Fire will be the new farming build?