Who *don't* you want to die?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-11-14 18:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Hmmm? What? Every comic book universe needs it's Superman type hero. Marvel has one (obviously not as popular), Wildstorm had one. It's needed! And for CoH that's Statesman.
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
I... what?
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
who....hmm well as a villain i say all of em should die...but if i had to pick one tht wouldn't ..... hmmm
Citadel and Sister Psyche cos their kick ***..... Citadel cos i love androids, and sister psyche is awesome.
if it had to be one of them....tough choice, i'd rather not make :P
tho the idea of statesman being replaced by a new (or current) hero as the main, but buffed up n all sounds like a fun run there.
O.O What if it is Stateman who dies, but he's replaced by his Praetorian counterpart! :O
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Sister P definitely needs a makeover. Not a rig I'd want to be wearing around a port area after dark. Particularly not if my major power was mind-reading.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
And really, I like Numina and Sister Psyche, but I think they could both use some new outfits!
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Who DON'T I want to buy it?
BAB (who's had a tough time of it on most arcs), Manticore, Sister P, Numina, Synapse, Posi.
Who DO I want to buy it?
That snot-nosed Atlas Park cheerleader type, or her grandad.
Who's LIKELY to buy it?
Let's leave aside the ones like Citadel who can't technically die, unless they do a Data/B4 cop-out. Personal bets are (in order of implementation difficulty):
- EASY(ish): Brawler, who's now zoneless and has no TF to be written out of. Too d**n easy, in fact.
- EASY/MEDIUM: Manti - these self-sacrificing emo types, I ask you. Will still be blaming himself for [SPOILER].
- MEDIUM/HARD (preferred option): Statesman and Recluse - leaving Brawler as the most senior of the Surviving Seven, and possibly even inheriting a chunk of States' power. It also leaves a power vacuum in the Rogue Isles that triggers a civil war - and maybe the Coming Storm...
- HARD: ALL OF THEM. Leaving YOU in an increasingly desperate battle to save Paragon against raids from an emboldened Arachnos.
- REALLY HARD: hero of your choice buys it, reshaping the rest of the world around that choice. Any time you replayed the arc and chose someone different, then the world would change again, using the well known universal mechanics of wibbly-wobbly timey... wimey...... stuff. Probably needs an Ouroboros-based contact.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
I really don't care about any of them as characters. Sure, I'd like Statesman to bite it, and no, this isn't creator hate projected onto the character. I don't like Superman either.
However, for reasons having nothing to do with the characters themselves, I hope they don't kill off BAB (partly because killing off the black guy is so cliche, partly because it would look petty considering his namesake's departure), or either of the women, because I'm sure it'll only be done to focus on how sad their boyfriends are. Also, whoever dies, I hope they replace them with BAB and not Captain Hotpants.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Completely and utterly agree.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Which is all the more reason to have him be an incarnate level AV in the last arc if it's players who kill him. *nod*
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Although if there was an Incarnate trial to Un-Well him, followed by a normal mission where we got to finish the job I would be even happier
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
I must admit I'm pretty ambivalent about it.
(and I'm also suspicious of the whole thing - I am fully expecting a twist in the tail that will effectively maintain the status quo)
For me, most of the sig characters don't have a story that really stands out for me and makes me want to buy into rooting for them. Perhaps maybe Synapse because he has been portrayed as so whiny and such a loser when the reality seems he's actually got one of the back stories with the greatest potential.
Thelonious Monk
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I know. As I stated before, players seem to refuse to differentiate between the character and its creator.|
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
It relates to Statesman being the chosen avatar for Jack Emmert, and his choice in Enhancement Diversification, among other unpopular game changes that came down the line.
Jack Emmert and the Playerbase |
Something about that seems insultingly childish on our part.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
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I think some of the Statesman hate is because that was the "in game persona" of a certain former Lead developer who had this "vision"
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Also, I don't understand all of the Statesman hate that permeates the playerbase.
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On Justice
Global @Desi Nova Twitter: @desi_nova Steam: Desi_nova. I don't do Xbox or PS3
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
I know. As I stated before, players seem to refuse to differentiate between the character and its creator.
Something about that seems insultingly childish on our part. |
to be fair, Statesman is mostly written as an emotionless, authoritarian stuffed shirt
Were he to be written more sympathetically then I'm sure the playerbase would warm to the character but he mostly just comes across as a twit as opposed to a leader
Thelonious Monk
Not Positron, because he'd be on the road to becoming CoH's Goku >_>. Also as said before, none of the females.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Well, that strikes me as a "Your mileage may vary..." moment.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
to be fair, Statesman is mostly written as an emotionless, authoritarian stuffed shirt
Were he to be written more sympathetically then I'm sure the playerbase would warm to the character but he mostly just comes across as a twit as opposed to a leader |
To me, I get the stuffed shirt part, but his "emotionless" personality seems to be more restraint on his part. He's lived a long time, has protected people from increasingly bizarre situations and is all too aware of the struggle he has to contend with, possibly for the rest of his life.
Not to mention the fact that his wife's death was a painful reminder of the fact, barring some convoluted murder, he will outlive his entire family.
Stoicism is usually the mortal's response to the realization of immortality.
For his coming across as a twit, once again, I'm reminded of a teenager's response to when their father goes "What's wrong?" and while there's a million and one things running through the teen's head, the only response is a glumly mumbled "Nuthin'" before the youngster trots off to his friends to go "Man! My dad is such a twit!"
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
Highly agreed with the post above. If you read Statesman's back story as well as run the Maria Jenkins arc, he becomes a pretty likable character.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Dark Zero!
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Highly agreed with the post above. If you read Statesman's back story as well as run the Maria Jenkins arc, he becomes a pretty likable character.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Hells yeah : D. <3 Kurohime
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Dark Zero!
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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It's my favorite manga |
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Hells yeah : D. <3 Kurohime
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Mine too. Shame it ended.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
It's my favorite manga
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Well, that strikes me as a "Your mileage may vary..." moment.
To me, I get the stuffed shirt part, but his "emotionless" personality seems to be more restraint on his part. He's lived a long time, has protected people from increasingly bizarre situations and is all too aware of the struggle he has to contend with, possibly for the rest of his life. Not to mention the fact that his wife's death was a painful reminder of the fact, barring some convoluted murder, he will outlive his entire family. Stoicism is usually the mortal's response to the realization of immortality. For his coming across as a twit, once again, I'm reminded of a teenager's response to when their father goes "What's wrong?" and while there's a million and one things running through the teen's head, the only response is a glumly mumbled "Nuthin'" before the youngster trots off to his friends to go "Man! My dad is such a twit!" |
Very possibly a YMMV moment. I'm not saying that's how he IS but it's how he comes across. There's little to no pathos in his writing that I've discerned. I'd suggest your interpretation - whilst not in any way wrong - is an interpretation that's not necessarily in the writing (but there's always the caveat that I'm no CoH Lore expert so there may be bits I've missed.)
But to be clear about my point, I think the weakness is in how States has been written, rather than an essential weakness in the character. But given the antipathy towards Jack and weak writing, then it could be an explanation why people don't necessarily like the character much.
Thelonious Monk
Citadel or Numina because I hate their boring Task Forces and it would make it easy to rework them with those tow dead. Numina TF could become the Infernal TF.
Edit: My mistake, the question is who I don't want to die. I would go with Positron. I really like Positron.
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
Personally, I don't want any of them to die. I hate the whole gimmick of killing a signature character to bump the ratings. One would think signature characters deserve better than to be murdered as a publicity stunt.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I cancel comics that do that, since they are almost always gimmicky rubbish stories.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I hate the whole gimmick of killing a signature character to bump the ratings.
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Death as a plot point is a core part of comics mythology, if it is often done badly it is only because comic stories broadly are often badly done. I have no problem with death as plot point, it is how well the plot point moves the story that matters. If the SSA is well done the death will an interesting story, if it is badly written it won't be the death that makes it badly written.
As for the original question, the only one I would hate to see go down is Back Alley Brawler. As a hero I like his back story, as a villain there is no one I like to beat more, as he has beaten me down in many fights.
As for the dislike of the surviving eight and other named heroes, I think a lot of that comes from the fact that they detract from our stories in the game. That is a big part of why I haven't tried the DC game, no character I make will ever surpass any of the named DC heroes, why should I try? In COH they do a better job of keeping the focus on the players, but too often the focus shifts us to secondary roles. We need 24 heroes to keep Desdemona alive in the underground trial, shouldn't that at least be one of the league? Statesman gets most of the hate because he sucks up most of the sunlight that we want to shine on our PCs.
I don't really have a connection to any of the heroes in game, none of them have very real connections to players in-game. I think that's a mistake, we seem to get far more backstory on the villains we face than the heroes we're supposed to be allies with/lackeys of.
I have a feeling it will be Statesman though, in a "No! Not another person I love! *jump in front of bullet*"-sorta way.
I would shed no tears for Synapse, though. Not that I dislike the character, I just ****ing hate his task force.
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I think thats your YMMV moment. The character is just unlikeable to many.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
As I stated before, players seem to refuse to differentiate between the character and its creator.
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
The Statesman character is generally written as an authoritarian, belligerent no-it-all. The Statesman character in game (until the introduction of the Incarnate stuff at least) was operating at dreamy heights our characters could never achieve. None of this is particularly conducive to warm relationship.
I, as a player, do not like the character. The characters I play in this game (hero and villain) don't like Statesman either. Thats not entirely bad though because on a number of occasions I have been able to put him in his place, either but saving his bacon or whuppin his butt!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection