Science is the result of experimentation (See: Spider-man)
Tech is using technology to achieve your goals (See: Iron Man)
I suspect you'd be looking for a Science origin with what you're going for.
Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes
My Characters
CoX Chatlog Parser
Last.fm Feed
honestly either fits. Origins are pretty flexible in general.
Personally my view on Science versus Technology origins comes down to the question were they permanently altered? If they were then it's Science and if they weren't then it's Technology.
However, the Brain in a Jar character type kind of straddles the line between the two. On the one hand the person was modified, their brain was removed from their body and placed in a jar. On the other hand if you view the brain as being the true aspect of a person then they weren't really modified they were simply moved from a flesh and blood based life support system to a mechanical one.
In this case, I'd really have to ask why was their brain placed into a jar? The original purpose would affect the origin slightly. For example if a mad scientist decided to remove a person's brain and attach it to a robotic body then I'd consider that Science origin. On the other hand if the person was dying of a terminal disease and decided to have their brain attached to a robotic body to prolong their life I'd consider that Technology. I guess for me the brain in a jar really comes down to voluntary versus involuntary. Voluntary is Tech and involuntary is Science.
For me, the origins are sufficiently vague that their descriptions don't provide strong enough operational definitions to fence all five into clear boxes. So I rationalize them by elimination.
Magic is magic: its anything that you'd explain as originating from something beyond science's ability to explain. If it falls outside the realm of scientific explanation, its magic.
Everything else is non-magic. Natural is the specific non-magic that is explained as "those superpowers are actually normal, its just that its possible most people don't realize they are normal." So if your super power comes from training for years to break a rock with your pinky, because you believe there exists such a thing as training long enough for your pinky to be rock-crushingly strong, that's natural. Human beings can do that if they really really try. Or whatever species you happen to be.
If you're human but with a genetic change that gives you superpowers, you're Mutation. Or if you are some other species but you're different because of a genetic mutation (you're a mutated fish or something). That is not exactly how most people define the borders of Mutation, but it is how I do.
If your powers come from a technological invention directly, you're tech.
All of the non-magical non-mutation non-natural not-technological superpowers are Science as I define Science. Science is really "everything not magic" but the Science origin as I define it is "all non-magical origins that aren't part of a more specific category."
For me, brain in the jar is tech. I wouldn't call someone with both legs amputated and replaced with robotic legs both science and tech, and for me brain in the jar is an analogous process, just taken to an extreme.
Since the actual game guidance for origins is vague, the primary reason for coming up with a personal system is to resolve ambiguity: to give yourself a way to come up with your own system of assigning origin to different concepts. In my opinion, people should come up with one that they are comfortable with, but I think people should also come up with one that answers more questions than it presents. To me, that's the whole point of having a framework in the first place. My system is guaranteed to assign an origin to all concepts, because all concepts begin with a choice between "explainable by science" and "not explainable by science." The former is guaranteed to fall into Magic, and the latter guaranteed to fall into Science by default if it doesn't fit any of the other three non-magical origins.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
If one's powers are the result of constructed devices of some kind, it is Technology. If one's powers are the result of a non-magical process, but which don't require any gadgets to work, then it is Science. If you are born with your powers as a natural aspect of your species or you trained to get all your abilities then you are Natural. If your powers were only genetic potential and then some event caused the genetic markers to express themselves at some point, then you are Mutation.
So the question is, where do Think Tank's powers come from? How did he get them? Presumably, having the brain transplanted didn't give him his powers; that is merely a storytelling conceit to explain the costume. So before you can pick an origin, you have to decide where his powers came from or how he got them. Is he casting spells or drawing energy from some magical dimension? Was he born with them and has been using them his whole life to one extent or another? Was he trained by a chi master? Are his powers the result of an Ultraman Serum? Or does his battlesuit contain all the powers and he merely controls the suit?
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
That begs the question of VEATs. None of them are Natural. The Crab backpack is clearly Tech. The Fort psi-powers are either Tech or Science. The Bane relies on weapons and the mace, which are Tech. The Widow has Mindlink and Foresight.
I always assumed that the VEATs were tagged as Natural merely because the HEATs were Natural and the devs wanted to preserve some sort of symmetry. *shrug*
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Quote:
The VEATs are an interesting case. Personally my take on them is as follows. They are of Natural origin because they start as natural origin. Up until level 24 the initial Wolf Spider or Widow powers are essentially Natural representing the equivalent of Army training and equipment that, while decent, is not significantly better than what is commercially available. At level 24 this changes depending on what build options the player selects. Widows of both stripes start demonstrating psychic powers implying a Mutant origin. Spiders, meanwhile, are either Science for the Crab Spider (since the backpack is permanently attached I'd consider it science) or Technological for the Bane Spider (canonically Bane Spiders are also psychic but this doesn't manifest in their power selection).|
Originally Posted by Spear0
That begs the question of VEATs. None of them are Natural. The Crab backpack is clearly Tech. The Fort psi-powers are either Tech or Science. The Bane relies on weapons and the mace, which are Tech. The Widow has Mindlink and Foresight.
|
However, when this happens their Origin remains natural for the simple reason that their origin was natural. Their power source might have changed but it was their will and determination that started them on the road to obtaining that power source (ok, technically Widows already had the ability inside them but without the training they received it would never have manifested).
Quote:
Only Peacebringers are natural, Warshades are Science.
|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
I always assumed that the VEATs were tagged as Natural merely because the HEATs were Natural and the devs wanted to preserve some sort of symmetry. *shrug*
|
Quote:
The Great White shark body met with an unfortunate accident.
|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
In this case, I'd really have to ask why was their brain placed into a jar?
|
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Ah, right!|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Only Peacebringers are natural, Warshades are Science.
|
I'm not up on my Kheldian lore enough to know why there is the distinction.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Quote:
the game officially considers psionic powers among humans as natural. See the Origins of Power story arc for some interesting points of discussion on that. But not all psions are natural some are magic, some mutant, some science or tech etc. It's just that natural psions are no biggie for humans in the game.|
Originally Posted by Spear0
That begs the question of VEATs. None of them are Natural. The Crab backpack is clearly Tech. The Fort psi-powers are either Tech or Science. The Bane relies on weapons and the mace, which are Tech. The Widow has Mindlink and Foresight.
|
Also, officially there were no mutants before the 1930s. I forget the official date but it is stated in the arc.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Kheldian|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Ah, right!
I'm not up on my Kheldian lore enough to know why there is the distinction. |
All you could want to know - and more than you needed to know - about the lore of Kheldians.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
What powers does the character have? Do they come from the machine body? If so, I'd say technology.
|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Making a character around the new "Think Tank" and trying to figure out what fits best. Basically, a person's brain was implanted into this mechanical body. In terms of the game, what is the difference with science and technology? Trying to figure what would better fit.
|
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Quote:
Warshades are science |
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
I always assumed that the VEATs were tagged as Natural merely because the HEATs were Natural and the devs wanted to preserve some sort of symmetry. *shrug*
|
I think the concept behind VEATs being natural is two-fold -
1 - At the core, it's all down to training and training hard.
2 - the "Base" branch, and one of each of the two advanced branches are clearly Natural and currently there is no way to change an origin.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
That was the back story of my very first CoH character. I made him Tech origin.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
... I wouldn't call someone with both legs amputated and replaced with robotic legs both science and tech ...
|
In Paragon City since June 2005.
As a tiebreaker for Origin determination, I like to use the names of SOs and see which one of these best fits the sentence "My character increases their abilities by _".
1) developping Secondary Mutations - Mutant
2) contacting Dimensional Entities - Magic
3) perfecting Techniques - Natural
4) installing Cybernetics - Technology
5) performing Experiments - Science
This is why my psi secret agents are Natural (they refine their powers through training) and their evil artificially created psi soldier counterpart is Mutant.
Character index
Tehe! you guys make me laugh. Surely it's all fiction anyway? You can manipulate your character and story to whatever you want. Me it all comes down to magic, mainly because those contacts and stores are the most convenient to access in game. Guess I'm just an old synic and prefer things to be as easy as possible. So neither Science of Technology makes one jot of difference, go with whatever floats your boat.
There is always a lot to be thankful for, if you take the time to look. For example, I'm sitting here thinking how nice it is that wrinkles don't hurt. ~Author Unknown
Tricky decision - The "brain in a jar" says science to me, but the mechanical body screams tech... I think at this point it may depend on your powerset choices...
If you go with something like Psy, you could argue that the the scientific end of the body (brain in jar) gave you greater control over those powers (could also work for several other powersets, flames/cold/electric control stemming from the brain). If the powers originate from the brain-jar, I'd lean Science
But if the powers come from the mechanical body, (Claws, or other weapon sets... Shield defense, traps, devices... electricity...) I'd lean Tech.
If you still haven't yet decided on the ultimately arbitrary decision, a couple other ways to help reach a conclusion on which origin to pick;
Enhancements:
How do you improve upon your existing powers? It may be that science experiment (likely gone wrong) that gave you the ability to shoot fire from your hands, but without magic enchantments to increase it's power, be available sooner, reduce it's stamina cost, etc - it's not much more than a neat parlor trick. (Or perhaps the magic is the only thing keeping what science gave you from backfiring and consuming you).
- MAGIC
- Dual Origins tend to focus on objects; Natural uses magical artifacts (relics), while Mutant uses focusing devices (visors, gloves, helmets, etc.)
- Single Origin calls upon magical beings such as Joule or Hermes to enhance your effectiveness
- MUTANT
- DO; Magic focusing devices (visors, gloves, helmets, etc.), Science further alters your genetic structure to greater heights
- SO; With secondary mutations (not the temp power), your existing mutations become even more powerful
- SCIENCE
- DO; Mutant - you alter your genetic structure to better control your powers, Tech - You use a combination of science and technology to create inventions - better materials and delivery systems for your powers.
- SO; Further scientific experimentation and exposures to chemicals and particles increase your effectiveness.
- TECH
- DO; Science - You use a combination of science and technology to create inventions - better materials and delivery systems for your powers, Natural - your powers are enhanced by gadgets (Grenades and amplifiers of all kinds!)
- SO; cybernetics and Nanobots
- NATURAL
- DO; Naural - magical artifacts/relics, Tech - gadgets
- SO; Techniques, often from martial arts or military training to help focus and improve your powers
Origin Powers:
Which is your character most likely to throw at an enemy when he starts out? A magical Charm (Magic), a vial of mutagen (Mutant), a taser dart (Tech), a throwing knife (natural), or a tranq dart (Science)?
Although since you're stuck between tech and science, this isn't helpful to your case - the veteran range temp can help me decide sometimes... Which is your character most likely to be proficient with? Nemesis Staff (Sci or Tech), the Black Wand (Magic, Mutant), or probably both (Natural, but you'll still have to pick one to get the damage bonus)?
Incarnate (* SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE YET TO DO THE INCARNATE INTRODUCTION ARC *):
What's that, incarnate abilities don't care what your origin is? Correct, but there's a bit of lore in mender Ramiel's arc that might just tip the balance on what you choose. After beating Trapdoor into submission, you get the artifact that is connected in some way to the Well of the Furies.
Presumably, without being able to locate and drink from the Well, this artifact holds the key to unlocking your potential as an incarnate. The form it takes as you hold it changes depending on your origin. For details, Paragon Wiki link - Click '[show]' on the 'Trapdoor dialogue' bar.
"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"
I'd put it down to whichever feels right to you since the game impact of origins is minimal. Personally I'd rate most brains in jars as tech in origin. But then the game's most prominent brain in a jar is the Clockwork King, who is likely mutation in origin. Though he's so nuts that he probably thinks that his body and his minions are technological in origin.
Edit: Ugh, did I really end three sentences in a row with the word 'origin?' Blast! That made four.
_________
@Inquisitor
Quote:
Canning. It's a Mason jar.
|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
In this case, I'd really have to ask why was their brain placed into a jar?
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I cheat on this one all the time. You can come up with a rationalization for just about anything and I like having the dagger mini-power that comes with being a natural so I use it all the time.
Sword Wielding, Energy Shielded, Superjumping Scrapper : The sword is high tech monofilament, the energy shields are from a unit on my belt and the super jumping comes from an additional unit on the belt that nullifies my mass. But the skill is all me and someone else fixes the things when they break. I'm a natural.
Super Strength, Invulnerable, Flying Tank : Everyone on my planet can do this. It's natural.
Darkness Fisted, Regenerating, Teleporting Stalker : Killed by a Crey experiment gone wrong, crawled from the grave on a mission of vengeance. I'm really a science gone wrong sort of background but I'm taking natural anyways because I refuse to let anyone label me and I really don't like the tranq gun dart because I think it looks silly so I'm keeping the throwing knives.
Honestly, take what ever Origin you wanna. If anyone really gives you any grief about it, they have issues and they probably would have found something else 'wrong' with your character anyways.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
Making a character around the new "Think Tank" and trying to figure out what fits best. Basically, a person's brain was implanted into this mechanical body. In terms of the game, what is the difference with science and technology? Trying to figure what would better fit.