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People interpret as they will -- based on their own experiences, their own preferences, yes, even their own prejudices. It's also true that what we write can have unintended implications. Words have meaning, but so does the way in which words are chosen and placed. Heck, the entire field of literary criticism is based on the premise that you can interpret a given work based on what is and what isn't written. In this case, it isn't a matter of putting words into your mouth; it's a matter of having been conditioned to regard turgid prose as self-indulgent. In an age when, more than ever before in history, people seem to believe that their every random thought is worthy of public exposition (see Twitter, Facebook), I am perhaps over-sensitive to that interpretation of self-indulgence.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I disagree. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that this interpretation is both unfair and actually very rude. I hate a lot of things, but the thing that deserves a special place in the fires of hell is when people try to infer what I REALLY meant to say when I neither meant nor said anything of the sort. If you read one of my long bios and then suggest I wrote it because I believed I was important and you were expected to care, I would have many, many mean things to say about you. Being misquoted is my one single biggest berserk button, and implying what I meant with the structure of my bio is right up that alley.
I write long bios because I like writing long bios and because I enjoy writing long bios. If you infer otherwise, you infer wrong. In general, if you try to assume what people "meant" with anything other than what they said directly and in plain text, you're already wrong. Death of the author this ain't. Moreover, as a writer of long texts, I'm more than well aware of how important it is to grab a potential reader right from the start, and do what I can incorporate this in my writing. Even if no-one else reads it, then at least when I go back and start reading, I will immediately remember why I wrote it and what I liked about it. |
And yes, I apply that standard to myself as well. I can't tell you how many of my own posts in this forum make me cringe for their length, even when the length is warranted. It's just a pet thing, nothing personal.
More specifically, I was responding to and agreeing with True_Gentleman's assertion that a character's Bio can act as a first impression. As the post you quoted states, I would never go out of my way to avoid someone based on a bio, but sometimes a too-long bio provokes a mild twinge of annoyance.
As to the topic at large: no, it wouldn't be a terrible thing if the max length on bios were increased. Stylistically, though, I agree with True Gentleman that shorter is generally sweeter. Not always sweeter, but then I said that already too. See? The forum encourages us to make what should be unnecessary disclaimers all the time, because respondents are prone to react out of proportion otherwise. ("Fires of Hell?" Really dude?)
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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That's your personal preference, to which you're completely entitled, of course. Even so, it's expressed in no less subjectively than, say, "I'd sooner read read half a sentence if it were witty than two pages' worth of character background attempting to be epic."|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'd sooner read two pages' worth of character background if it's actually good than read half a sentence trying to be witty.
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(Incidentally, wittiness shouldn't define concision or directness. As Strunk and White write, "Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts." They'd probably approve of a 1024-character limit over a 2048 one.)
At this point, this thread seems to be separating into two camps: those who regard character bios as their personal story-journals and those who consider them as social self-expression. The suggestion of having two separate tabs, one for public bios and another for detailed backstory, is the most likely to please everyone, should the devs wish to allocate the resources to reworking the character database. As it is, the CoH character bio section apparently either works as they intended or ranks below bases, PVP, and AE on their to-do list.
Reading bios is something I do enjoy doing while waiting on TFs and such, I'd be for increasing their word-count, maybe double what it is now.
As someone mentioned, it would be a nice thing to sell in the Market. I'd probably but that feature too.
American Dawg, Starblaze, Neanderthal Joe, Shining Dawn, Tokamak Dragon, Stinger Incarnate, Burning Tyger, Dover Tornado, Big Roach, Dark Paladin, Archmage Wylde, Kings Row Hornet, Prancing Deer
Avogadro, Science Lord
Edgar Nightcraft, Doc Cicada, Chupa Macabre, Dr Forchtenstein, Blood Shrew
The argument that the pro-short bio people never seem to be able to answer is what would stop a person who thinks bios in this game should be 1024 or less characters long from remaining within that limit via their own self-imposed sensibilities? Would suddenly having 2048 characters to work with ruin their own ability to stick to their notions about brevity or would they be tempted to write maybe, god forbid, 1030 characters? Say it isn't so!
We've already established the simple fact that if you don't like a person's bio for ANY reason you don't have to read it. I think it's probably fair to say if someone's bio is crap at 1024 or less characters it's likely still going to be crap at 2048 characters. Keeping the limit at 1024 is never going to auto-magically encourage anyone who would have used 1024+ characters to suddenly create perfection at 1024 or less. It hasn't happened yet so why expect it in the future?
Increasing the limit to 2048 would make people who want more space happy. Increasing the limit to 2048 shouldn't affect the people who like the current 1024 limit at all because they supposedly have enough self-control to limit themselves regardless. Until the pro-brevity camp can come up with a substantive objective reason why their style of bio writing would be hampered in any way by this kind of change they really have no case to stand on here. I can certainly entertain the idea that the Devs might not increase the limit because it would represent some kind of insurmountable game mechanic problem to do so. But the idea that the Devs shouldn't do it only because it would upset someone's esoteric notion of "vigorous writing" is complete and utter nonsense.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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I don't think I've ever run out of space. My "detailed" bios run between 600-900 characters, and you'll get the character's origins, what got them to be a hero/villain, and other pertinent information. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Not always. A character is made interesting by his or her backstory or personality. I mean no offence to whoever had those one-sentence bios upthread, but if I read that on a character (and I have), I'd just roll my eyes, think "Man, what a waste!" and leave. Granted, I'm the guy who makes bios for himself, but people in this thread have claimed to be writing them for others. So if you fail to put in the bio anything that's actually worth reading and, moreover, anything that impresses, then it's really not a bio that's worth reading, at least not to me. I'd sooner read two pages' worth of character background if it's actually good than read half a sentence trying to be witty.
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The rest of their "story?" Look at the badges. Watch what I do in game. I may stop to wipe out a group of -20 Family - but you'll see why in my bio.
I don't need to write a novel. But...
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| When I plan my characters out, I give them complex backstories, with each event drawn up to be meaningful and having an impact on how this character has grown as a person. It is the sum total of these events and the character's reaction to them that makes this character who he or she is. If I skip too many of them, then I have nothing left worth writing about, because I've removed the character's soul and meaning, and I'm left with things that don't really matter. And I have a very hard time justifying the time invested in writing something that, as the game used to say, doesntmatter. |
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| There's only so much you can cut from a character's bio until the only thing you can fit really doesn't say anything worth reading, and I've faced this problem before far too often to want to count. |
When reading a bio, I don't need to read 10 years of adventures. I want to know specifically why this character is who they are.
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| "The guts" of my character is the hardships he has suffered and the life lessons he has taken home from them. No good character can be boiled down to JUST a single key event or JUST a single personal characteristic. In fact, I take it as a sign of depth when you just can't simplify the character like that. |
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| Besides, I have and I do, and here's the rub - no-one reads stories on those websites, anyway. |
... oh, wait, I know people read those. For the simple fact *I* do on occasion, and I'm not that "hardcore" into them.
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
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I've tried getting exposure, and the truth of the matter is much more grim than one might infer from Facebook and Twitter. Yes, anyone can post, but anyone who believes himself worthy of public exposure is in for a rude surprise, trolls notwithstanding. Even if I were an arrogant ponce and believed my writings were a diamond in the rough, I couldn't be arrogant enough to expect people to shower me with praise or give me the light of day, simply because I've tried, and I know how it works.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
In this case, it isn't a matter of putting words into your mouth; it's a matter of having been conditioned to regard turgid prose as self-indulgent. In an age when, more than ever before in history, people seem to believe that their every random thought is worthy of public exposition (see Twitter, Facebook), I am perhaps over-sensitive to that interpretation of self-indulgence.
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Trust me, I know length is a turn-off (giggity notwithstanding), and I'm far from believing that just because I have something to say, people will want to read it. However, for some things, more simply is better than less. That's just the nature of some styles of writing and not others, just as excessive detail is the nature of, for instance, the [url=http://www.gamedropzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/image6.jpg]Warhammer 40 000 universe[/quote] and less so for DC's earlier works.
Granted, there's something to be said about picking a style that's appropriate to your chosen medium, but in my case... Well, that's simply what I enjoy the most. I've made a career out of making decent characters from bad ideas in this game, and it's been fun so far.
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Originally Posted by Obitus
"Fires of Hell?" Really dude?
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
That's your personal preference, to which you're completely entitled, of course. Even so, it's expressed in no less subjectively than, say, "I'd sooner read read half a sentence if it were witty than two pages' worth of character background attempting to be epic."
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
As Strunk and White write, "Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts."
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As a point of fact, I can't imagine artwork that has TOO MUCH detail, for the simple fact that I'm not sure such a thing is possible. The greatest limiter for artwork detailing as I see it are time and skill, with inclination following soon thereafter. But if an artist could put more detailing, I would always prefer said artwork with over without it. And that's not to say you can't have a stylised piece of art - you very much could. But you can still add detailing to that where appropriate.
I'm aware that this is, again, personal preference, but BECAUSE it is personal preference, it irks me when people speak of it in absolutes.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
At this point, this thread seems to be separating into two camps: those who regard character bios as their personal story-journals and those who consider them as social self-expression. The suggestion of having two separate tabs, one for public bios and another for detailed backstory, is the most likely to please everyone, should the devs wish to allocate the resources to reworking the character database. As it is, the CoH character bio section apparently either works as they intended or ranks below bases, PVP, and AE on their to-do list.
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This isn't about good and bad. It's about choice.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I've been writing concise descriptions for game characters for decades now. I'm probably not the world's best at it but I'm sure I'm better at it than others. I don't want or expect to be able to write novel-sized bios in this game for any reason.|
Originally Posted by Stormbird
I don't think I've ever run out of space. My "detailed" bios run between 600-900 characters, and you'll get the character's origins, what got them to be a hero/villain, and other pertinent information.
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Having said that my first drafts of bios often come in at around 900-1100 characters long. If I manage to squeak in under the 1024 character limit then I'm golden. But conversely I've wasted countless hours in the last 7+ years tinkering with longer bios just to get them down under the arbitrary 1024 limit. For the record I find having to do that fairly annoying...
Increasing the limit to 2048 characters is not going to enable anyone to write grossly overlong bios here, but it will save people like me the large amount of time I have otherwise wasted "gaming the system" just to overcome a silly QoL limitation.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
There's nothing I love more than a good story, and that's the truth. I love City of Heroes because it's full of stories. After other peoples costume contests, I often surprise contestants with additional winnings for those with well-written, fascinating or intriguing bios.
So, as an avid reader of bios (did I mention I love stories?), I actually have a few additional features to add to the OP's wish. Disclaimer: if you are in general disagreement with Ace's topic, this might make your head explode.
First, the ability to call up any character's bio, no matter where they are in the game, no matter whether they're online or off.
Because, dammit, this is a super hero game, and super heroes have fans. I want (nay, NEED!) easier access to keep up with my favorite characters exploits, but not all of my favorite characters on Primal Earth and beyond belong to me.
The social rewards from such an upgrade would not be subtle.
Players would feel more inclined to update their bios with their latest happenings, knowing that watchful allies, fans and nemeses were, uh, watching. Privacy or bandwidth concerns? Fine, make the slash command usable only for those on friend lists or global lists.
In a nutshell, I could read longish bios for hours; but without easier access to them, such a feature doesn't make make much sense, even to a dork like me who might just be its biggest fan. ("I might not want to read your bio right now, in the middle of a big explodeyfied TF. I'll read it lat--OH WAIT! CAN'T!")
Now for a couple wackier ideas that are so crazy, they just might or might not work.
Second, an extra tab.
This wasn't my idea. It was Tormentoso's, from the first page.
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But with a caveat, with further social consequences. Because bios, as they stand, are a stale story-telling platform.|
Originally Posted by Tormentoso
I've always liked the idea of multiple bio pages. Basic page for main information, and extra pages for character progression, next issue, etc.
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What if players could pay other players some arbitrary amount of influence for access to their "character progression" tab, a blog-like account of their adventures? The amount of influence required? Totally up to the players who own those characters.
("Omg what's the point?" Okay! Don't rush me.)
The result would make influence even more like the social currency it's designed to mimic.
Alternatively, if access was acquired via a WW's auction format, the resulting social capital might be even more interesting. How interesting do you think your character is? How interesting do other people think he or she is?
You might think such a feature would go unused, but the success of blogs and vlogs suggests otherwise.
Friends could keep up with friends, but more importantly for Paragon Studios and retention rates, you would see popular characters and loyal audiences emerge from this system. Famous characters like Ascendant are rare, but that is because there is not currently an easily accessible platform for those who have the ability to grab and retain a loyal readership in a very small space.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
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Indeed. But in making your point, you slanted your statement in the direction you preferred ("I'd sooner read two pages' worth of character background if it's actually good than read half a sentence trying to be witty." - the long bio succeeds, but the short "witty" one is only trying). Under such conditions, the quantitative issue naturally slips into subjectivity.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
It's subjective, of course. That was my point.
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Similarly, CoH is not just a platform for creative expression in game play, but a social environment as well. The ideal biography must be both well written in terms of style and concisely composed in order to reach the widest audience. Some players may not care about bios at all and will read only the the barest amount to get a sense of the characters with whom they're interacting. Others may want miniature epics to read at their leisure. Maximalists will appeal only to the latter, to say nothing of the server space their works will consume. It's no wonder the devs haven't seen fit to increase the bio length since CoH's launch. They have to strike a balance too in terms of deciding which features will appeal best to the playerbase.
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In some respects, the long vs. short debate (or wordy vs. concise, or truncated vs. full) over CoH's bio length resembles the discussion over character name reservations and purges. For some, this is a quality of life issue that constrains their enjoyment of the game, for others, it's an arbitrary limitation that can be worked around with diligence and creativity.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Increasing the limit to 2048 characters is not going to enable anyone to write grossly overlong bios here, but it will save people like me the large amount of time I have otherwise wasted "gaming the system" just to overcome a silly QoL limitation.
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(The idea of an additional backstory tab seems like the best solution here, but even expanding the bio character count will require work on the part of the devs.)
I LOVE writing and reading good bios. If it is too long, I sometimes will skip it. Some of the best ones I have ever read were short, to the point and sometimes had a great punchline/impact. Therein lies the challenge to me, to come up with a bio that makes folks laugh, cry or think with a minimum of reading. For those who like making a sort of story background that is detailed and long, I think the tab for a second page is an awesome idea.
�Many things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done.�
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Then put it on the Market. I'd sooner have twice the Bio space than twice the costume slots or twice the number of builds.
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I can get behind that
If people want to put down some Paragon Points to buy some DB space for longer bios, that would be fair for those who want it.
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I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'd pay 15 bucks for more space account-wide. I'd like it to include a second tab though. Would help break things up and you could have them be for different aspects of your character. Like, a traditional bio, and then a summary of your latest adventures or whatever you wanted.
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Originally Posted by Obsidius
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I can get behind that If people want to put down some Paragon Points to buy some DB space for longer bios, that would be fair for those who want it. |
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
I love reading bios.
I'd love more space, too. But what I'd love most of all is if the bio editor wasn't so utterly crap.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Every single one of my characters has a bio, and usually the basic concepts of my characters can be summed up in a sentence or two. That said, I usually elaborate on the details in my bios. The main questions I try to answer are how the character got their powers and what the character fights for. That's something that takes longer for some characters than others.
The length I usually aim for is the size of the box in the bio editing screen. If I find myself going past the bottom of the box and having to scroll to see the rest, I'll shorten it up so it all fits. I also usually write bios in first-person, which allows me to set the mood of the character by having them tell their stories in their own words.
As for the whole "Don't like it, don't read it" argument goes, a person has no way of knowing whether or not they'll like a bio until AFTER they've opened the character's info window to read it. It might be a valid arguement in the case of opinions on genres as a whole (I'm not too fond of disaster movies, for example, because I think motiveless forces of nature make for really boring villains), but it just doesn't work when dealing with individual pieces within a genre such as character bios.
But back to the original topic, I wouldn't complain if the space we were allotted to write our bios in were expanded, but I've managed to do just fine with it as it is.
Currently published Mission Architect arcs:
Arc ID# 70466: From the Abyss.
Arc ID# 403174: The Serpent's Revenge.
Arc ID# 534236: The Clockwork Angel.
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Only as a counter-balance to the over-abundance of "less is more" rethoric. My idea was not to shoot for neutrality, but rather to provide a strong counter-point, thus proving the variety of opinions.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Indeed. But in making your point, you slanted your statement in the direction you preferred
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
But nobody is drawn to a machine that's over-designed since those are always frustrating to work with.
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This pen was different. It consisted of around ten pieces. It had its cartridge and one spring to move it nestled within a part of the casing at the front. On top of the cartridge went the two parts of the clicker mechanism, which then slid into a middle, normally hidden part of the casing, with the end of the clicker having a hollow threaded space and sticking through a hole at the back. Over this thread went a second spring, and over that spring went the final, outer third part of the casing with another hole at the end. This casing would then be pressed down to compress the spring, the pen clip welded to a washer was placed over the hole, and the final top piece of the pen - a decorative cap with a a protruding screw, was threaded through the clip washer, through the other casing and actually screwed onto the end of the clicker mechanism below.
With everything tightened up, you had a pen which appeared at first glance to be ordinary. However, when clicked, the entire half of the pen would move. Furthermore, unlike most clicker pens I've seen, the clicker would not remain in the "down" position and slide around when the pen was clicked on, because the secondary string kept it extended even then.
I own many "toys" of this nature that I've acquired over the years, but this is easily my favourite one. It's precisely as simple to use as any pen I've ever seen (simpler, actually, because it doesn't jam), yet it's immeasurably fun to take apart and put back together again for no reason other than... Because it's fun to disassemble and reassemble. Undoubtedly, this is a "machine" with far too many extraneous parts, doing what should be a simple task with overly-elaborate mechanics. Yet it's my favourite machine of this type nevertheless.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Speaking of which: Once upon a time, I used to write character bios at character creation. But then I wouldn't get the name I want and I'd have to re-write the bio, and then I wouldn't get the new name and on and on like that. So, I started making characters with no bios until I could be sure I'd get the name, and the only way to be sure I'd get the name was to make the character. However, laziness and desire to play meant I'd put off writing the bio for a long time.|
Originally Posted by Spectreblade
Every single one of my characters has a bio, and usually the basic concepts of my characters can be summed up in a sentence or two. That said, I usually elaborate on the details in my bios. The main questions I try to answer are how the character got their powers and what the character fights for. That's something that takes longer for some characters than others.
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Now, not only can I check if a name is available (a tool which used to not work from creation), but I can also reserve that name while I write about it. As such, I found myself once more able to write bios at character creation. Being able to do this makes character creation quite a bit more lengthy of a process, but it's worth putting in the time if it means I enter the world with a story to tell, rather than being once of those that, when you go to read their bio, you're presented with their set bonuses, instead.
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Originally Posted by Spectreblade
As for the whole "Don't like it, don't read it" argument goes, a person has no way of knowing whether or not they'll like a bio until AFTER they've opened the character's info window to read it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm also with the more bio space vote. Most of my bios are a paragraph or 2 - but a few times I have had to edit stories that I really liked.
I refer to them often; having so many characters, its hard to keep track.
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I'd go one step further with this. I'd like to work on my costumes offline (would be great for server maintenance when I have nothing else to do but continually click on the CONNECT button)
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
First, the ability to call up any character's bio, no matter where they are in the game, no matter whether they're online or off. Because, dammit, this is a super hero game, and super heroes have fans. I want (nay, NEED!) easier access to keep up with my favorite characters exploits, but not all of my favorite characters on Primal Earth and beyond belong to me. |
________________________________
"Just cause you don't understand what's going on don't mean it don't make no sense
And just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good" - Suicidal Tendancies
I've always considered Bios to be the equivalent of Public Information that Paragon/Rogue Isles/Praetoria keeps on-file for each "super" individual. This information that can be easily referenced with whatever computer, smartphone, crystal ball, etc. a person might have available.
Unfortunately, the bio system has needed a technical overhaul for a long time. A longer bio space would be nice, but simply being able to utilize the existing limit efficiently would be a big help (remember, we used to have a limit of around 512 bytes before). I usually type my bios in notepad/Word/OO before pasting it into CoH - typing some things directly into CoH when a straight paste causes extra data to be inserted (I'm not sure how the new interface is handling this). I always use paragraphs and line-breaks even at the cost of loosing bio-real-estate just to make mine more legible (nothing says, "Don't read me" like a big wall of text).
I've received a lot of compliments on my Bios over the years - sometimes it's my longer bios that people like sometimes it's the shorter ones. But all of them are easy to read. I also like to read other people's bios too - even though the majority of them are cliche Mary Sues, there's others that are genuine joys to read.
For those that don't like long bios (or bios in general), then just don't read them.
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This does not speak to a specific character limit. The number, as others have pointed out, is arbitrary. There is nothing in Skunk and Whipple or whoever you're going to quote that says "verily, good sir, a TRULY magnificent piece of superheroic biography MUST be One-Thousand-Twenty-Fi-- no, FOUR characters."|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Similarly, CoH is not just a platform for creative expression in game play, but a social environment as well. The ideal biography must be both well written in terms of style and concisely composed in order to reach the widest audience.
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Increasing the limit to 2048 is an arbitrary increase; double doesn't mean it's perfect, it just means "double the space within which to write". It does NOT demand the "Concise-atives" here from keeping their own biography to their self-imposed limit. It DOES allow those who wish to add more flourish to their own personal biography the breathing room in which to do so.
I still fail to see how both viewpoints are NOT accommodated by an increase in text allowance.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Indeed - and I myself acknowledged this above.|
Originally Posted by Turgenev
This does not speak to a specific character limit. The number, as others have pointed out, is arbitrary.
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Since everything in CoH Freedom has been monetized, the devs' determining if expanding the bio length is worth their time is fairly straightforward. First, get a data dump of VIP and Premium accounts' character bios and sort how many use 90% of the allotted space. From there, extrapolate the size of the target market. If it's not too small, get a cost/manpower estimate from the coders of how much effort developing a new feature like a "backstory tab" or enlarging the existing bio and editor would take. Finally, estimate how many players would actually buy the new feature and set a price accordingly, if it looks like the market will bear it.
Going back and forth about the pros and cons of long and short biographies on the forums is, of course, free with a VIP subscription.
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| There is nothing in Skunk and Whipple or whoever you're going to quote that says "verily, good sir, a TRULY magnificent piece of superheroic biography MUST be One-Thousand-Twenty-Fi-- no, FOUR characters." |
Incidentally, here's one of the most magnificent superhero biographies* of all time:
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound! Yes, it's Superman! Strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men! Superman! Who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands, and who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a never-ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way!It's gripping, informative, and not even 500 characters.
* There's no need to phrase it "piece of superheroic biography". Revising that accordingly saves more than 25% of the character count.
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| Increasing the limit to 2048 is an arbitrary increase; double doesn't mean it's perfect, it just means "double the space within which to write". It does NOT demand the "Concise-atives" here from keeping their own biography to their self-imposed limit. It DOES allow those who wish to add more flourish to their own personal biography the breathing room in which to do so. |
There's no guarantee that 2048 characters would actually lead to better written character sketches, just longer ones. Parkinson's Law can be applied to data as easily prose: "{Data/Word count} expands to fill the space available for {storage/printing}." Obviously those who want to write more would have more space (although 4096 characters might start to look tempting, too).
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I mean no disrespect, but that's neither informative nor gripping.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Incidentally, here's one of the most magnificent superhero biographies* of all time:
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound! Yes, it's Superman! Strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men! Superman! Who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands, and who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a never-ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way!It's gripping, informative, and not even 500 characters. |
It's not informative in that it describes just what Super Man can do in the style of giants like John Henry or Paul Bunyon, but leaves off pretty much everything that actually makes Superman a compelling character, as opposed comic book mascot. I'll freely admit that I don't know all that much about the Man of Steel, but I DO know that many people dislike him, feeling that he's overpowered, bland and boring, and this really couldn't be farther from the truth, nor could authors who set out to "bring him down a peg" ... Like Frank Miller.
It's also not gripping, or at least no more so than, say, Segata Sanshiro or, more directly, Hong Kong Phooey. It tells us he's strong, he's great and he has super powers, but it does so in the same way one would market a fast sports car. What makes Superman gripping and compelling isn't his absurd power, it's how he uses it and what he uses it for, it's his solid upbringing and the lessons he learned from his parents, it's the responsibility he takes for a world which is, practically, not his own.
Superman, the mascot, is nothing more than a tank-mage. Super-man, the person, is what's interesting to read about, and Superman the person isn't really part of his famous intro any more than Spider-Man's actual depth of character is in "Spider-Man, Spider-Man. Does whatever a spider can." That snippet of information really only tells me that I'm going to read a comic book about a super hero, and that description can fit a great many of them.
Superman's "Is it a bird? Is it a plane?" is iconic of his character in the same way as "Oooh, yeah!" is iconic of Macho Man Randy Savage or "Wooo!" of Nature Boy Rick Flair - not because it's gripping or informative, but because we like the characters in question and this is simply what's most readily associated with them. This works for established characters, but for new unknowns, it is entirely pointless. Especially in City of Heroes, that kind of bio is dead air, because you can get the same information by checking out the character's powers directly, available in the next tab over.
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Many people here talk about judging not just people's characters, but people themselves by their bios. I try not to (aside from Engrish bios), but if I did, I'd look for something that told me this person had an idea more substantial than "I will be yet another generic hero in a city filled with generic heroes" or "I will be a villain in a city of heroes but pretend to be an anti-hero." As players, we don't have the benefit of previous comic book runs that people know us by.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
There's no guarantee that 2048 characters would actually lead to better written character sketches, just longer ones.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Fair enough. Just to give you the background, that's the final version of the announcer's introduction to the classic Superman radio program (which was later adapted for the TV show). When the show debuted, Superman was only a couple of years old, and the superhero phenomenon as we know it today was just taking off. That opener presented not merely the protagonist to a new audience as a novel kind of legendary hero, but also his alter ego as his inverse - which is what makes Superman a compelling character. That's the authoritative character sketch that essentially introduced Superman, and the whole concept of the superhero, to the mainstream.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I mean no disrespect, but that's neither informative nor gripping.
It's not informative in that it describes just what Super Man can do in the style of giants like John Henry or Paul Bunyon, but leaves off pretty much everything that actually makes Superman a compelling character, as opposed comic book mascot. I'll freely admit that I don't know all that much about the Man of Steel |
The original version was a bit shorter.
Character length minimums didn't stop Twitter!
But in all seriousness it’s always sobering to be reminded just how small a percentage of heroes running around the game are actually participants in the forums.
I say this because I can't recall the last time I clicked on a hero in game that had a bio at all. An extreme rarity in-game that makes an interesting active post in-forum. Alas…
I of course am all for Bio’s in general - but find – as some others have mentioned - that forcing myself to write something into the confines at hand typically improves the poignancy of what I want to say. I approach the bio as a movie trailer or teaser.
It may be worth pointing out that (I believe) all of the NPC's great and small in-game are held to the same restraints - and I don't recall myself feeling uninformed - and I get pretty click happy when it comes to COH content.
As a disclaimer it takes a “gripping” costume for me to want to click on someone’s bio – and that’s perhaps even more of a rarity in this beholders eye than the existence of a bio. However having said that I still find that even on the rare occasion when I do consider a costume well done enough to click for bio - its still almost always empty. Hmmmm…
It would however be cool if NCSOFT used 1024 characters (plus images) to better describe items for sale in the market.
I'm definitely in favor of more bio space. In my mind it doesn't hamper anyone and only provides a decent QoL improvement for people who feel like typing more. People against it just need to get their heads out. If you don't like someones long, crappy bio then don't read it. It's not like there aren't a lot of them out there already and no one is chaining you to your chair and forcing you to read them. You have no basis to defend arbitrary limitations on the haughty notion that it forces people to make "better" bios.
I'll never understand the mindset of people who come out against an idea that is beneficial to whoever uses it and detrimental to no one. Reminds me of the old influence cap/transfer days.