FPvPL11: Proposal to change the structure of the playoffs
By
Artic Keeper,
Posted on: 2011-11-01 02:19 in Everything about PvP
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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_
Your opinion matters, Sep, don't worry.
To clarify, my current version of that 6 team playoff would still keep the league to 2 weeks, it would just be 2 matches per week instead of 1, with round's 1 and 3 being freely scheduled before the Sundays of round 2 and 4. I get the feeling that most people haven't really read in it's entirety what the idea was. Apparently the GP network is under maintenance or something atm. |
I read your proposal I just still don't see the need to change it so drastically from what it was. Especially with teams having attrition problems. Originally you just wanted to change it from points based to elimination and I can understand that. But now your talking about making it 6 teams and making more nights for "officials" it's just a bit much to make that big of a change now. But that's my opinion I would suggest rather than debate this we have a captains vote.
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At this point I'm not pushing for it, but I originally made it because it would address a lot of people's concerns with the playoffs. It would put value on regular season seeding while still allowing everyone to participate, as well as removing the continuation of points from the regular season. It would also typically give teams the best matchups for most of the season, and it would give all of the teams more playtime in the playoffs. I know plenty of people just play this game for 8v8, myself included, so I don't see how increasing the number of matches could be bad, since it's not extending the season and it's not forcing any match dates besides what we already have (Sunday). |
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
I read your proposal I just still don't see the need to change it so drastically from what it was. Especially with teams having attrition problems. Originally you just wanted to change it from points based to elimination and I can understand that. But now your talking about making it 6 teams and making more nights for "officials" it's just a bit much to make that big of a change now. But that's my opinion I would suggest rather than debate this we have a captains vote.
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The only real argument against it that I've seen is people think it's too complicated or too drastic of a change to make at this point, despite the fact that it basically addresses every problem people have with both the point-based playoff and the elimination playoff.
I have a hard time believing that most teams would not be able to field 8 on a pre-set date agreed upon by both teams since most teams have regular practice anyways, and most of the regularly practicing teams usually field more than 8 on those days.
In any event, if there's little support for it, then it won't happen, I still believe it's a superior system to both of the other options.
Other then that, so far it seems like the 4 seed, 5 match single elim playoff is the most popular change.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
1v4
3v2
Single elim.
So simple, popular, and standard. Why reinvent the wheel? When it's all said and done, some people are going to get together, pew pew, and there will be some winners and some losers, no matter how wacky you make the structure around the whole thing. You can discuss it all you want, but you're not gonna suddenly invent some mysterious super tournament structure that's 10x more fun.
FWIW, I've played in a tournament for another game where the organizers decided the finals would be seeded 1v2, 3v4, 5v6, 7v8 instead of the standard 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5. The organizers thought it would mix up the final results from the usual suspects. What it actually did do was create a giant cluster **** of collusion and thrown matches during the late rounds of the tournament. Very, very lame, and serves no purpose other than giving worse players an opportunity to finish higher than better players.
I have no pony in this race but just as a reader it seems a bit confusing - why not make it simple
Top 4 teams -
1 fights 2
3 fights 4
1 fights 4
2 fights 3
1 fights 3
4 fights 2
3 rounds best two out of three each match - winner takes all? That way each team fights each other.
basically your record gets you in to the finals, win the finals you win the tourney?
This thread is ridiculous.
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Like I've said in my last few posts, I'm not pushing for it, it's pretty obvious it's not a popular setup, and if that's the case then it won't happen, but I stand by my opinion that it's a better setup for this league.
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Originally Posted by Pixel
1v4
3v2 Single elim. So simple, popular, and standard. Why reinvent the wheel? When it's all said and done, some people are going to get together, pew pew, and there will be some winners and some losers, no matter how wacky you make the structure around the whole thing. You can discuss it all you want, but you're not gonna suddenly invent some mysterious super tournament structure that's 10x more fun. FWIW, I've played in a tournament for another game where the organizers decided the finals would be seeded 1v2, 3v4, 5v6, 7v8 instead of the standard 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5. The organizers thought it would mix up the final results from the usual suspects. What it actually did do was create a giant cluster **** of collusion and thrown matches during the late rounds of the tournament. Very, very lame, and serves no purpose other than giving worse players an opportunity to finish higher than better players. |
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
We will have a Captain's vote for it on Sunday before officials, Captain's should send me a tell or preferably an in-game e-mail with the following:
1. In a single elim style playoff, would you prefer best of 3 or best of 5?
2. Would you prefer to keep the points system as is or:
a. Change it to an elimination playoff starting with 1v4 and 2v3
b. Change it to an elimination playoff giving top seed their choice of opponent?
In between now and then I would encourage Captain's to get with their teams and figure out what your team wants to do, please don't send me your vote until Sunday, before officials.
Each team will get 1 vote, majority rules.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
BoF 5 Double Elimination. Blind first round. Loser picks
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Where is our option to pick our opponent? You are trying to simplify the vote to get rid of options you dont like. Our vote is entirely contingent on that. And I would once again like to point out that the entire structure of this league is being voted on right here and its 2 weeks before the end of the regular season. That is kind of absurd. |
Originally Posted by The Katalyst
We will have a Captain's vote for it on Sunday before officials, Captain's should send me a tell or preferably an in-game e-mail with the following:
1. yes/no to change the playoffs to single elimination 2. if we change to single elimination, best of 3 or best of 5 (You should answer no matter what your vote was for the 1st question.) In between now and then I would encourage Captain's to get with their teams and figure out what your team wants to do, please don't send me your vote until Sunday, before officials. Each team will get 1 vote, majority rules. |
Remember the past 3 leagues were all points based with no kind of single elimination play off at the end. FpvpL points with round robin playoff for more points at the end. Champion league the bud edition was just a points system no playoff. FML points system with points playoff. Which is exactly as this league was constructed, now you want to change it this late into the season? That is kind of ridiculous. So the only team getting screwed at all in this change would be WARE. So if you are going to screw us compensate us by letting the top seed pick their opponent in the first round of playoffs (this opponent being one of the other 4 teams that made the playoffs since I did not make this clear earlier)
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I can add the option to vote for that, I didn't add it because it didn't seem like an option anybody would vote for but WARE, just as I didn't add my 6 team playoff model because it would probably just dilute a vote or 2 and serve no real purpose, despite still believing it's better.|
Originally Posted by Daknah
Where is our option to pick our opponent? You are trying to simplify the vote to get rid of options you dont like. Our vote is entirely contingent on that. And I would once again like to point out that the entire structure of this league is being voted on right here and its 2 weeks before the end of the regular season. That is kind of absurd.
Remember the past 3 leagues were all points based with no kind of single elimination play off at the end. FpvpL points with round robin playoff for more points at the end. Champion league the bud edition was just a points system no playoff. FML points system with points playoff. Which is exactly as this league was constructed, now you want to change it this late into the season? That is kind of ridiculous. So the only team getting screwed at all in this change would be WARE. So if you are going to screw us compensate us by letting the top seed pick their opponent in the first round of playoffs (this opponent being one of the other 4 teams that made the playoffs since I did not make this clear earlier) |
It's still a vote, it may pass, it may not, nothing has been decided yet. You are trying very hard to push this agenda which paints me as some corrupt league leader who is trying to model this league to somehow benefit me and nobody else. I didn't just bring this idea up out of no where, the idea was brought up to me and I asked multiple people what they thought about it, and the response was generally that it was worth bringing up, so I did. I just happen to agree with the idea.
If I wanted to model this league to benefit me or my team, I could easily just start making up BS rules that hurt other teams ability to win and things of that nature, which I have not done yet.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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It is very evident that you care alot about this league. However, I see you too quickly jump to something. The point of the league creator imho is just to get the ground floor done. You seem to want to have your hand in every aspect of it and create more issues than are needed which is more like how Bud and Kat ran their leagues. Granted we eventually over threw them and got a pure captains vote but the league creator shouldnt be trying to think of things to change nonstop. The captains can call for a captain's meeting to propose changes. It is great that you care so much but it seems a bit too over zealous. |
Originally Posted by The Katalyst
I can add the option to vote for that, I didn't add it because it didn't seem like an option anybody would vote for but WARE, just as I didn't add my 6 team playoff model because it would probably just dilute a vote or 2 and serve no real purpose, despite still believing it's better.
It's still a vote, it may pass, it may not, nothing has been decided yet. You are trying very hard to push this agenda which paints me as some corrupt league leader who is trying to model this league to somehow benefit me and nobody else. I didn't just bring this idea up out of no where, the idea was brought up to me and I asked multiple people what they thought about it, and the response was generally that it was worth bringing up, so I did. I just happen to agree with the idea. If I wanted to model this league to benefit me or my team, I could easily just start making up BS rules that hurt other teams ability to win and things of that nature, which I have not done yet. |
As for the vote:
Best of 3 or Best of 5
Keep points system that is in place or Move to elimantion system with 1v4 2v3
Keep points system that is in place or Move to Elimantions system with top seed picking opponent.
That would be the way I would phrase it. 3 separate votes of A or B. It would not be fair for us to vote with 3 choices due to split decisions, some might not care if its 1v4 2v3 or top seed pick opponent and just want it to be elimination and those that want it to remain points will be able to have their voices heard on each vote.
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Fair enough, and I can see where the conclusion that maybe I meddle too much would come from, I will try to be more mindful of that.|
Originally Posted by Daknah
It is very evident that you care alot about this league. However, I see you too quickly jump to something. The point of the league creator imho is just to get the ground floor done. You seem to want to have your hand in every aspect of it and create more issues than are needed which is more like how Bud and Kat ran their leagues. Granted we eventually over threw them and got a pure captains vote but the league creator shouldnt be trying to think of things to change nonstop. The captains can call for a captain's meeting to propose changes. It is great that you care so much but it seems a bit too over zealous.
As for the vote: Best of 3 or Best of 5 Keep points system that is in place or Move to elimantion system with 1v4 2v3 Keep points system that is in place or Move to Elimantions system with top seed picking opponent. That would be the way I would phrase it. 3 separate votes of A or B. It would not be fair for us to vote with 3 choices due to split decisions, some might not care if its 1v4 2v3 or top seed pick opponent and just want it to be elimination and those that want it to remain points will be able to have their voices heard on each vote. |
I can try and reword it, but one reason I wanted to just do more anonymous voting (e-mail/tells) was to minimize people being influenced by other people's votes. The way I worded it might be confusing, but I'm pretty sure I meant what you said, which was even if you disagree with the change to elimination, to vote on the other 2 options anyways in case it passes.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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If people are so easily influenced by other people's votes they are pathetic little haines stains. Can't we just vote on mumble on Sunday before matches, 5 minutes and done?
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Originally Posted by The Katalyst
Fair enough, and I can see where the conclusion that maybe I meddle too much would come from, I will try to be more mindful of that.
I can try and reword it, but one reason I wanted to just do more anonymous voting (e-mail/tells) was to minimize people being influenced by other people's votes. The way I worded it might be confusing, but I'm pretty sure I meant what you said, which was even if you disagree with the change to elimination, to vote on the other 2 options anyways in case it passes. |
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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Lol really? I remember a certain instance in which you banned controller paralytic poison to stop a certain team from using it to win the league.
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Originally Posted by The Katalyst
If I wanted to model this league to benefit me or my team, I could easily just start making up BS rules that hurt other teams ability to win and things of that nature, which I have not done yet.
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What I'm asking wouldn't really take time out of anyone's day or anything, just send me a tell or an in-game e-mail before matches answering the questions. Would probably take 30 seconds.
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Originally Posted by SmokeSignal
If people are so easily influenced by other people's votes they are pathetic little haines stains. Can't we just vote on mumble on Sunday before matches, 5 minutes and done?
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@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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Oh man, my cover is blown!
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Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Lol really? I remember a certain instance in which you banned controller paralytic poison to stop a certain team from using it to win the league.
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@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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Wait till we get our haines on you!
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Originally Posted by SmokeSignal
If people are so easily influenced by other people's votes they are pathetic little haines stains. Can't we just vote on mumble on Sunday before matches, 5 minutes and done?
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Would anyone be opposed to a double elim system?
And, I think the vote for 2/3 vs 3/5 should be taken and decided BEFORE a vote is held on single elimination implementation, as the results of the former may effect voting for/against the latter.
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would you like to be body 2 body?
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Originally Posted by Silit
Would anyone be opposed to a double elim system?
And, I think the vote for 2/3 vs 3/5 should be taken and decided BEFORE a vote is held on single elimination implementation, as the results of the former may effect voting for/against the latter. |
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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This.|
Originally Posted by vindizzLe
It's disappointing that we won't be able to play against every possible team in the playoffs.
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Follow suit with The League, single round robin, top however many teams you want. That way it's all done in one day and everyone fights each other. Double points, triple points, whatever is gonna give you guys enough points to win if WARE lost every round.
In The League, U2BG was in 2nd place and the chances of us winning relied on us pulling off something ridiculous. We did and we won. Do it, Shenxile.
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This is true. Due to the points awarded for d6 matches, we'd have had to win every playoff game just to be tied for first. Keep in mind, this back when teams could force ties and lose you points - if just one team was successful in doing that (multiple teams tried - CIGAL even had everyone quit out save for their stalkers in an attempt to make us lose) we would have lost.
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Originally Posted by IronFlag
In The League, U2BG was in 2nd place and the chances of us winning relied on us pulling off something ridiculous. We did and we won. Do it, Shenxile.
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I came to win, to fight, to conquer, to thrive,
I came to win, to survive, to prosper, to rise.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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But Feo Statesguard and Captain had gotten so good.
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Originally Posted by Silit
This is true. Due to the points awarded for d6 matches, we'd have had to win every playoff game just to be tied for first. Keep in mind, this back when teams could force ties and lose you points - if just one team was successful in doing that (multiple teams tried - CIGAL even had everyone quit out save for their stalkers in an attempt to make us lose) we would have lost.
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I would would like to have a setup where all the teams got to play in the playoffs, but still put some kind of bearing on the regular season. The round robin thing sounds like it would work, but it would be partially dependent on other teams and what they want to do.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
The way I see it currently, I don't see the point of extended 'playoffs'. If you are planning to do this extension, remember that you are getting closer to Nov/Dec which can lead to holidays/weather conditions (it does snow here once in awhile).
If you are going to have this six team elimination round thingie, I would advise having multiple 'round' fights a night, instead of having the league last six weeks later.
Side note: I just glimpsed over this thread, I am not a 'Football' playoff junkie, I am not a rocket scientist, either way I just do what I am told (especially for you Philly <3) and make a good showing. The Nuggets are fine with whatever decision that is made in regards of 'playoffs', if we even make it out of some crazy apocalyptic circumstance.
To clarify, my current version of that 6 team playoff would still keep the league to 2 weeks, it would just be 2 matches per week instead of 1, with round's 1 and 3 being freely scheduled before the Sundays of round 2 and 4.
I get the feeling that most people haven't really read in it's entirety what the idea was.
Apparently the GP network is under maintenance or something atm.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.