Sewer (Death from below) needs xp reduction


Agent White

 

Posted

(If this has already been posted somewhere, feel free to move this thread to where it belongs)

Im voting for a ”Death from below” (i.e. ”Sewer”) xp reduction; a huge exp dimnish after L8+ (like old sewers used to be). DFB trials really outshines exp competition from pretty much everything else in the game for non hardcore players. I´ve leveld 3 toons to 50 (granted, not from level 1) in sewers alone since DFB went Live but eventually got really bored with it. I heard tons of new players saying they are doing sewers repeatadly and really dont know anything more about the game, some even asking if there is anything else to the game. Its fun and all with fast exp, but its killing old content fast. More urgently, ive grouped with new players in their 30s+ who don´t understand their role. This aint unusual, but the amount of it is.


 

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I'll support a suggestion to have this happen for free/premium players, because it's not a good thing to have people leveling on their first character and not knowing how to actually play.

However, for VIP players, leave it unnerfed.


 

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Now, you know better than this....

Farms are evil. UNLESS they are created by Devs.

So, DFB = okay.


 

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And I say leave it alone. No one is forcing you to run it. No one is forcing you not to run it. If people want to play the game that way, it's their money (or lack thereof).


Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit

 

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I'd say nerf it, it's a low level trial, it shouldn't be used to get to high levels. Attach the big experience to the badge for killing the hyrda heads so that players get it *once*, and leave the 4 power boosts so people still have reason to run it more than once (besides badge runs).


 

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I think Feycat said it best in another thread on this same topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feycat View Post
it's not YOUR job to decide where my journey starts and where my destination lies.
/unsigned

Let them enjoy playing the game the way they want. They aren't breaking any rules and it's none of our damn business.


 

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Another person trying to get something nerfed in COX? Nah say it ain't so.....


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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My stance is the LFG should include nothing that players below lv 10 can access.

That or Death form Below and other stuff in the LFG could require some sort of beforehand unlock in order to be eligible to participate in one.

I do not care if people are exploiting this I care if new players get trapped in a loop of DFB's when they know too little about the game to find anything else.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycheout View Post
I do not care if people are exploiting this I care if new players get trapped in a loop of DFB's when they know too little about the game to find anything else.
Just like to point out that it's not an exploit if it's working as intended. This was thoroughly beta tested before it went live.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycheout View Post
My stance is the LFG should include nothing that players below lv 10 can access.

That or Death form Below and other stuff in the LFG could require some sort of beforehand unlock in order to be eligible to participate in one.

I do not care if people are exploiting this I care if new players get trapped in a loop of DFB's when they know too little about the game to find anything else.

Sorry I agree with Forbin and Memphis Bill. When they got rid of Galaxy and gave Atlas its face lift they also shut off all of the old contacts that used to be in city hall. That mean a 7 year vet that has absolutely no need for a tutorial of ANY kind has 2 options..

Death from Below

or run the Tutorial and do missions that ask you to find the train station and then take a ride to king's row. Now plenty of groups form before entering the Queue but without the LFG exactly how do you propose that group of 2-4 levels looking to level their characters without running the tutorial and being bored out of their minds accesses the trial that NC Soft provided.

/unsigned .. leave it alone


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

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Don't tell other people how they should or shouldn't be playing, or force them to play a certain way unless it is actively disturbing your gaming experience (which this isn't).

Dumb idea.

/unsigned


 

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I will admit, I am guilty of DFB leveling to about 39 or so, so I was (and still am, but I'm learning D: ) very noobish.

Having made several other characters and actually run through the content within the game now, I'm much more knowledgeable (though there still are aspects of the game that are a mystery to me).

I would propose that, unless you have one or more characters at 50, the trial offers diminishing returns.


 

Posted

Heard this same argument before when AE came out. The slew of 'AE Babies' threads were mind boggling. People complaining about level 50s that didn't even know how to slot enhancements, or who didn't know that they could train up with anyone other than Ms Liberty cause that was the only trainer they were introduced to, and many many more.

Prior to that it was the broadcast spam in PI for farms and PLing, and bridges.

The point is, it doesn't matter what device people use for fast XP, they'll find a way. Nerfing DFB won't stop you from running into high level characters that have no clue what exists beyond Atlas Park.

In short...

/Unsigned


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian69 View Post
(If this has already been posted somewhere, feel free to move this thread to where it belongs)

Im voting for a ”Death from below” (i.e. ”Sewer”) xp reduction; a huge exp dimnish after L8+ (like old sewers used to be). DFB trials really outshines exp competition from pretty much everything else in the game for non hardcore players. I´ve leveld 3 toons to 50 (granted, not from level 1) in sewers alone since DFB went Live but eventually got really bored with it. I heard tons of new players saying they are doing sewers repeatadly and really dont know anything more about the game, some even asking if there is anything else to the game. Its fun and all with fast exp, but its killing old content fast. More urgently, ive grouped with new players in their 30s+ who don´t understand their role. This aint unusual, but the amount of it is.
How about no? The whole point of adding DfB was so that you can skip the 1-20 stuff after having done it multiple times. Nerfing the XP so that you can't get past those levels in a similar amount of time. It's not "killing old content", it's letting people who've played for 4-odd years skip the old (and shuttling you everywhere with way too many street-sweeps) missions that need to be upgraded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
Apostrophe guidelines.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx View Post
How about no? The whole point of adding DfB was so that you can skip the 1-20 stuff after having done it multiple times. Nerfing the XP so that you can't get past those levels in a similar amount of time. It's not "killing old content", it's letting people who've played for 4-odd years skip the old (and shuttling you everywhere with way too many street-sweeps) missions that need to be upgraded.
That's your assumption on what the Devs believe is "The whole point". Til they actually chime in on the whys and wherefores of their logic behind dfb then I wouldn't be putting words in their mouth.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
That's your assumption on what the Devs believe is "The whole point". Til they actually chime in on the whys and wherefores of their logic behind dfb then I wouldn't be putting words in their mouth.
The dev logic - or at least explanation - is making what we've done for years (sewer runs) into an actual trial with a reward at the end.

If you nerf the XP from that, people can still run old fashioned sewer *runs* - either with a new character or level locked one holding the team to, say, level 5 while still pulling in XP. They'd lose a few things (like the trainer at every level) but they'd just use that to bypass it.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy View Post
Sorry I agree with Forbin and Memphis Bill. When they got rid of Galaxy and gave Atlas its face lift they also shut off all of the old contacts that used to be in city hall. That mean a 7 year vet that has absolutely no need for a tutorial of ANY kind has 2 options..

Death from Below

or run the Tutorial and do missions that ask you to find the train station and then take a ride to king's row. Now plenty of groups form before entering the Queue but without the LFG exactly how do you propose that group of 2-4 levels looking to level their characters without running the tutorial and being bored out of their minds accesses the trial that NC Soft provided.

/unsigned .. leave it alone
I just have to say that if you stay with that arc line it is pretty funny and even interesting.


 

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Just ran it again on a new character, jumping from 14 to 16.

It really is just the absurd amount of easy arch villains in this thing that makes it such an easy leveling tool. Now the SSA was nerfed when the Elite Boss at the end was handing out Arch Villain size experience and people were farming it, and here we have a very low level trial dumping it on people by the bucketfull. Really odd kind of logic there.

I'd rather see the Arches turned to Elites and the Kraken Xp attached to the badge for killing it, leaving in the bonus goodies.

Honestly, if the logic behind keeping it this way is "Well why do all the boring low level stuff when I can skip my way to 50 where I have fun" and the Devs agree with it, they may as well just let us make characters that start at 50.


 

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I run this four times to get the badges and the boosts. It certainly encourages altitis as I can try all sorts of powersets before putting significant time into a build I may wind up deleting after getting a feel for it. I find it enjoyable and useful although I honestly can't imagine running it to 50. That would make me not want to play at all. It might be helpful to give some sort of message that Positron wants to talk to them when they level into posi's Tf range. I think a Tf might be a nice segue from trial to normal game content especially if they enjoy the teaming aspect. Although I ran a midnighter badge run yesterday and had a number of players ask what that was and want to know why it was important. Montague's contact info does pop up when you hit ten so not certain if the contact stuff is helping. I've noticed I'm getting the contacts frequently while actively in combat so people are missing or forgetting them altogether. I wonder if the contacts can wait to pop until your character hasn't activated powers for a bit?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycheout View Post
I just have to say that if you stay with that arc line it is pretty funny and even interesting.

Oh I am not saying there is anything wrong with the new arcs.. although there are some that would even disagree with that.. But it does contain a number of missions designed solely to tutor new players on game mechanics. I ran it on Beta and compared to the skimpy amount of tutoring we used to get I applaud the new set up. That said how many long time vets with years in game get frustrated when the are trying to get missions from contacts and for the 999th time have to run to king row and talk to the field rep so she can explain AGAIN how to change the difficulty you play at. Or roll their eyes in disgust when a contact send them off to speak to a PvP zone rep. YES we are all aware the game includes PvP and having played for 6 years I am quite familiar with the zones and where the entrances are.. can I please just get a mission and play the game!

See the point .. A 7 year vet, 6 year vet or what ever that has multiple 50 levels and has done pretty much all the available content in game at least once or more doesn't need or want missions that award no xp and require them to run around Atlas finding things on the map like .. the Police Station, Wentworths, the Hospital and getting a detailed speech from a signature hero on what these are and how they all work. They may sit through it once but as new power sets emerge and they create new characters they want something else.. that something else is Death from Below... or farming in the AE. Now technically running back to back to back to back trials is just as much farming as those ones in the AE that tend to bend if not break the rules ot the TOS.... but the difference is its legal. NC Soft created the trial and encourages multiple runs by offering 4 different buffs. The only other possible solution is street fighting in Atlas or sidekicking to someone higher up and running like made from the zone and all of it.


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Honestly, if the logic behind keeping it this way is "Well why do all the boring low level stuff when I can skip my way to 50 where I have fun" and the Devs agree with it, they may as well just let us make characters that start at 50.
Fortunately that is not the logic nor the argument being made so there is no reason for the devs to let people start at level 50.

The logic and argument being made is that the devs now need to add a ton of low level content to replace the original content they ripped out of the beginning levels of the game.

Pre I21 starting contacts

Azuria
Antonio Nash
Susan Davies
Jonathan St. John Smythe
Rick Davies
Gregor Richardson
Prince Kiros Nandelu
Derek Amberson
Rebecca Brinell
Caitlin Murray-Davies

Shadowstar - Warshades
Sunstorm - Peacebringers

Post I21 starting contacts

Matthew Habashy

Shadowstar - Warshades
Sunstorm - Peacebringers


Notice anything different?


Now no one is saying that they weren't tired of running the old content. Hell we've been running it for almost 8 years of course it's going to feel old. But it only took a week for us to get sick of Matthew Habashy and his new linear story arc players are forced to go thru.

One can only hope the devs plan on adding new missions to the old contacts to keep players interested because we've all seen how successful having to go thru the same linear storyline has been for Villains and Praetoria.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Fortunately that is not the logic nor the argument being made so there is no reason for the devs to let people start at level 50.

The logic and argument being made is that the devs now need to add a ton of low level content to replace the original content they ripped out of the beginning levels of the game.

Pre I21 starting contacts

Azuria
Antonio Nash
Susan Davies
Jonathan St. John Smythe
Rick Davies
Gregor Richardson
Prince Kiros Nandelu
Derek Amberson
Rebecca Brinell
Caitlin Murray-Davies

Shadowstar - Warshades
Sunstorm - Peacebringers

Post I21 starting contacts

Matthew Habashy

Shadowstar - Warshades
Sunstorm - Peacebringers


Notice anything different?


Now no one is saying that they weren't tired of running the old content. Hell we've been running it for almost 8 years of course it's going to feel old. But it only took a week for us to get sick of Matthew Habashy and his new linear story arc players are forced to go thru.

One can only hope the devs plan on adding new missions to the old contacts to keep players interested because we've all seen how successful having to go thru the same linear storyline has been for Villains and Praetoria.
Just want to agree with this.

I like the new Matthew Habashy missions. They are good and cool and I love the phasing technology that allows our heroes to clear Arachnos out of Atlas Park. Big thumbs up! But I have started a few new characters recently an I am already bored. Previously I had more variety and they were not as bad as people suggest, since they had been updated. Such as the updated Hellion missions and the Superdine factory.


This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Fortunately that is not the logic nor the argument being made so there is no reason for the devs to let people start at level 50.

The logic and argument being made is that the devs now need to add a ton of low level content to replace the original content they ripped out of the beginning levels of the game.
.
I'm really not sure where you were seeing that I disagree with the trial being in as a low level option. I really like it as an alternative to the Hashaby/Twinshot lowbie stuff.

But. That's the thing though. Low level. If we are in fact considering this low level, say 1-10, then it's being used for well (WELL) beyond that. A single low level event should not be this repeatable for so much easy, powerful leveling. I just think the XP gains could be tweaked to stop giving so much earlier on or being worth for the XP *once*. I think it's distorting to see such an easy and short event that allows for such a rocket in levels. Some like it, yes, because it's easy. As has been said elsewhere, many times over, people will flock to the shortest, easiest path to success.

Ideally, I'd like to see trials for every 10 level ranges or so. So, 1-10, people do the Sewer Trial. Levels 11-20, let's say a Clockwork warehouse rush. 21-30, tomb raiding to stop a ritual. Etc. If someone wants to take their character and level purely through trials, sure, but I'd like to see it be more than a single, low level trial. People are using it for much more than low level content. They're not just bypassing the new Atlas Bottleneck, they're skipping straight past King's Row, The Hollows, Steel Canyon, Faultline, and even Talos and beyond. That's just ridiculous.