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Kheldian get 5 more powers in their primary (14 to 9) and 4 more in their secondary (13 to 90) than regular ATs do, so I think the general attitude might be that Kheldians sort of have APPs - they're just kind of klunked in there with their regular powers.
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Originally Posted by Ericsonx
Granted, the ones I've made were power starved so it might be redundant, but even a couple of my VEATS dipped into the PPP's, so I'm just curious.
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On the other hand you have VEATs, which have double primaries/secondaries anywhere from 14 to 18 powers in the primaries and either 12 or 13 powers in their secondaries... So they have the same benefit of extra powers built right into their sets and still get PPPs.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
Kheldian get 5 more powers in their primary (14 to 9) and 4 more in their secondary (13 to 90) than regular ATs do, so I think the general attitude might be that Kheldians sort of have APPs - they're just kind of klunked in there with their regular powers.
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Now, VEAT's don't get Forms, so they don't have the extra form powers (10 total, 4nova 6dwarf) but then they don't get locked out of two travel pools (10 powers).
All in all VEAT's have anywhere from Nearly As Many, to More powers to pick from (Primary, Secondary, Pool, Inherent, Form) PLUS get PPPs, I frankly see zero reason to keep with Kheldians not getting APPs.
Storyline reasoning FOR kheld apps; if a host was already a powered individual before merging with a Kheldian, it doesn't make any sense at all for them to never use the powers they had beforehand again. Having APPs would allow a player to pick a pool theme that fit with the pre-merging host, adding greater depth to resulting character.
*Edit to say: It's not that I'm denying that originally Kheldian APPs were considered "baked in" that part seems fairly self evident, but the game has evolved beyond that, IMO. Yes, Khelds have more powers than normal Archetypes, but VEATs (being the only other AT with a greater than normal number of powers, and thus a metric to compare against) show that the Devs are perfectly fine with an AT having both extra built in powers, and APPs/PPPs.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I used to want Defender pools, but now I want Blaster Patron/Ancillary pools for my Khelds. A choice between Melt Armor, Scorpion Shield, and Soul Drain? Heck yeah I can fit one of those in my builds.
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Fairly certain that IF Khelds ever got APPs (which I'm fairly certain will never happen, sadly) They would be AT specific. They wouldn't give Kheldians APPs with another armor in them. Nor would I expect to see anything at all like Soul Drain or Build Up.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I used to want Defender pools, but now I want Blaster Patron/Ancillary pools for my Khelds. A choice between Melt Armor, Scorpion Shield, and Soul Drain? Heck yeah I can fit one of those in my builds.
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@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Shh.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Fairly certain that IF Khelds ever got APPs (which I'm fairly certain will never happen, sadly) They would be AT specific. They wouldn't give Kheldians APPs with another armor in them. Nor would I expect to see anything at all like Soul Drain or Build Up.
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<.<|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Shh.
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>.>
*activates Cloak of Darkness*
*hopes no one noticed him*
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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So let me get this straight. You want Sunless Mire, Dwarf Mire, AND Soul Drain? Go team damage cap.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I used to want Defender pools, but now I want Blaster Patron/Ancillary pools for my Khelds. A choice between Melt Armor, Scorpion Shield, and Soul Drain? Heck yeah I can fit one of those in my builds.
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What he really wants is Scorpion Shield; he's just distracting you with the Soul Drain thing.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
What he really wants is Scorpion Shield; he's just distracting you with the Soul Drain thing.
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Shenanigans, my Human Form Kheldians aren't able to hit 300% Damage without red inspirations. Honestly though I think my Warshade wants Melt Armor most.
My WS hits the damage cap with no issue (without the red inspirs). In fact, if I don't see both damage res and damage in light blue on my screen I've either lost interest in the battle or I'm afk. I'm sure your shade is the same.
I have a question about the App wish...where are we suppose to find the slots for this? Maybe an all human build, but a tri former...forget about it. I find Kheldians to be a huge "give and take" relationship (more so than most AT's). I can't think off the top of my head which Patron/Ancillary power would be worth giving up on some Kheldian goodness.
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The same place you find the slots for the powers you would normally take at 35, 38, 41, 44, 47 or 49?|
Originally Posted by Trip
My WS hits the damage cap with no issue (without the red inspirs). In fact, if I don't see both damage res and damage in light blue on my screen I've either lost interest in the battle or I'm afk. I'm sure your shade is the same.
I have a question about the App wish...where are we suppose to find the slots for this? Maybe an all human build, but a tri former...forget about it. I find Kheldians to be a huge "give and take" relationship (more so than most AT's). I can't think off the top of my head which Patron/Ancillary power would be worth giving up on some Kheldian goodness. |
Seriously, people act like this would add more powers they have to slot. That's not the case. You would have the same number of powers. Just more options for what those powers could be. (Oh, and also, you would always have the option to NOT take them.)
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
If Khelds did get access to APP/PPP's I am sure the devs would limit them to human form for the same reason nova and dwarf don't have access to their non-form powers. Also, getting another shield would probably not fly so they'd either do a mix and match or Khelds would get access to an APP/PPP that did not have a shield as a power choice. So no squishie based pools and they would probably avoid pools that had similar powers like energy/body mastery. I'm inclined to believe they'd probably just do a straight port of the VEAT PPP's.
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That was my point, obviously a little too high flying. Kheldians have a very tight "bag of tricks" most of the powers compliment one another. I can't think of too many powers I would sacrifice in my current builds in favour of app, especially at those high levels you mention. That is exactly where those builds really start to come alive. I don't know about the rest of crowd, but I'm not ready to substitute eclipse for electrical fences. I simply cannot get my head around gimping these characters.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
The same place you find the slots for the powers you would normally take at 35, 38, 41, 44, 47 or 49?
Seriously, people act like this would add more powers they have to slot. That's not the case. You would have the same number of powers. Just more options for what those powers could be. (Oh, and also, you would always have the option to NOT take them.) |
Kheldians by nature are typically very slot starved (especially a tri former) and a good number of those app's require more than one slot to get any type of usefulness out of them. Kheldians are very fun to play, you should try and rolling one someday
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I play a Human Form Warshade. That means that I don't have a dwarf Mire to stack my damage up to 300%, ever. |
Originally Posted by Trip
My WS hits the damage cap with no issue (without the red inspirs). In fact, if I don't see both damage res and damage in light blue on my screen I've either lost interest in the battle or I'm afk. I'm sure your shade is the same.
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| I have a question about the App wish...where are we suppose to find the slots for this? Maybe an all human build, but a tri former...forget about it. I find Kheldians to be a huge "give and take" relationship (more so than most AT's). I can't think off the top of my head which Patron/Ancillary power would be worth giving up on some Kheldian goodness. |
Defense is always good for a resist based set, so there's your reason for scorpion shield. Soul Drain would be fan-freaking-tastic particularly for Human form Warshades and Peacebringers... But the route I would probably go on my Warshade is Melt Armor. Debuffing is the one thing my Shade can't do well, and being able to stack the -Res proc from Reactive, my Fury of the Gladiator -Res in Orbiting Death, on top of Melt Armor would help me put out a pretty significant amount of useful debuff.
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I have one of each, thank you very much. Elitist.|
Originally Posted by Trip
That was my point, obviously a little too high flying. Kheldians have a very tight "bag of tricks" most of the powers compliment one another. I can't think of too many powers I would sacrifice in my current builds in favour of app, especially at those high levels you mention. That is exactly where those builds really start to come alive. I don't know about the rest of crowd, but I'm not ready to substitute eclipse for electrical fences. I simply cannot get my head around gimping these characters.
Kheldians by nature are typically very slot starved (especially a tri former) and a good number of those app's require more than one slot to get any type of usefulness out of them. Kheldians are very fun to play, you should try and rolling one someday |
I can honestly say that there wasn't a single power from the primary or secondary that I cared to get past level 41 on my warshade.
Not everyone uses the same build. Some people chose theme over min/maxing. How would adding more options hurt anyone in any way?
If you don't have the slots for it, don't take it, but don't sit there and outright dismiss the possibility that other people would like them, and could fit them into their builds.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Oathbound, I think this is the best advice both of us could take right now:
Rather than APPs, Kheldians just need each of their powers to work respectably. There is a wide variance still for some of them. Group Fly is always going to be iffy, probably, but others aren't in the same boat. *coughs* Pulsar and Solar Flare *coughs*
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Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Rather than APPs, Kheldians just need each of their powers to work respectably. There is a wide variance still for some of them. Group Fly is always going to be iffy, probably, but others aren't in the same boat. *coughs* Pulsar and Solar Flare *coughs*
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Nothing wrong with fixing the broken stuff and giving us some options, like everyone else gets.
As a side note does anyone else wish this thread was a request for a Kheldian Cell Phone App?
If they gave us app i would like to get debuff protection powers... like end drain protection, res debuff protection.. and to hit debuff protection.. and prob another dmg boost toggle!! 
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
I can't see Kheldians getting APP's but I could see letting them have access to PPP's tailored to them. If I were to allow Kheldians to have PPP's they'd look something like this:
Mace Mastery:
Web Envelope
Focused Accuracy
Web Coccoon
Surveillance
Summon Spiderlings
Mu Mastery:
Electrifying Fences
Power Sink
Electric Shackles
EM Pulse (disorient APP version)
Summon Adept
Soul Master:
Soul Tentacles
Oppressive Gloom
Soul Storm
Darkest Night
Summon Seer
Leviathan Mastery:
School of Sharks
Hibernate
Water Spout
Spirit Shark Jaws
Summon Coralax
Mind some of my choices aren't ideal but I tried to follow a pattern.
No shields or build up/powerboost/conserve power-esque powers.
Few if any outright full on primarily damage powers.
Included immobilizes and holds and disorients.
Included a variety of buffs debuffs and/or utility powers that are present in other pools
Included the signature PPP pets.
What I threw together seems like what the devs might gives Khelds if they ever let them get PPP's. I figure the APP/PPP models tend to give AT's abilities they inherently lack (like squishies get shields, dps types often get some cc or minor buff/debuffs, controllers and mm's get attacks, etc) and those were the areas I felt Khelds shine least. My ideas could obviously be way off the mark if it ever happens.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
I don't understand why they can't get APP's...
They have access to all the power pools...why not them?
Focused Accuracy and Physical Perfection...and probably Superior Conditioning...yes please.
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You don't need any of those things on either Kheldian. Warshades have the cheat mode that is Stygian Circle and Sunless Mire, Peacebringers have a conserve power clone and Inner Light. |
Originally Posted by Vitality
I don't understand why they can't get APP's...
They have access to all the power pools...why not them? Focused Accuracy and Physical Perfection...and probably Superior Conditioning...yes please. |
As others said, I don't see Khelds getting APPs as much as I wish they would. I think it is possible to make a case for PPPs, in which situation I'd expect them to look highly similar to what was posted up above.
*Drools over thought of a Warshade with Spiderlings and 3 Essences...Warmind???*
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
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People often overlook the reason why I like Focused Accuracy so much...the debuff resistance.|
Originally Posted by Vauluur
You don't need any of those things on either Kheldian. Warshades have the cheat mode that is Stygian Circle and Sunless Mire, Peacebringers have a conserve power clone and Inner Light.
As others said, I don't see Khelds getting APPs as much as I wish they would. I think it is possible to make a case for PPPs, in which situation I'd expect them to look highly similar to what was posted up above. *Drools over thought of a Warshade with Spiderlings and 3 Essences...Warmind???* |
Also...at least for me...more endurance tools are always welcome. Powers like Superior Conditioning and Physical Perfection offer more than just extra end and extra end/sec...they offer a place to slot the Performance shifter proc.
Having high end/sec is not saving you from end drain and recovery debuffs...and neither will Conserve Power...as you actually have to have endurance to benefit from that power.
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Honestly Conserve power is crap for an Endurance management tool just due to it's god awful Uptime: Downtime ratio.|
Originally Posted by Vauluur
You don't need any of those things on either Kheldian. Warshades have the cheat mode that is Stygian Circle and Sunless Mire, Peacebringers have a conserve power clone and Inner Light.
As others said, I don't see Khelds getting APPs as much as I wish they would. I think it is possible to make a case for PPPs, in which situation I'd expect them to look highly similar to what was posted up above. *Drools over thought of a Warshade with Spiderlings and 3 Essences...Warmind???* |
I'd like it a hell of a lot better if it were only HALF as much end discount with half the damned recharge, at least then you could perma it and have constant, if only moderate, benefit instead of not using any end half the time and just being ***** out the other half.
I would take Physical Perfection over CP in a heartbeat.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Granted, the ones I've made were power starved so it might be redundant, but even a couple of my VEATS dipped into the PPP's, so I'm just curious.