Ok a few days ago that AOE did say 8 feet, I even had it down in my notes when I copy and pasted the powers. It may have been changed a few times then.
That still ignores the other part, what about the Fiery Embrace only boosting some attacks by 25% and not 45% like other sets?
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This set does stupid damage without Fiery Embrace through the combo system. At level 10 I was 2-shotting bosses with full Fury, a 3-combo Sweeping Cross and Rib Cracker. If it was adjusted to do less damage with FE, then it's probably a good idea considering just how absurdly this hard this set hits with 3 combo points.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Ok a few days ago that AOE did say 8 feet, I even had it down in my notes when I copy and pasted the powers. It may have been changed a few times then.
That still ignores the other part, what about the Fiery Embrace only boosting some attacks by 25% and not 45% like other sets? |
I'm pretty disappointed you made a thread with this title. Way to freak people out, especially considering it's only for Fiery Embrace, ONE secondary set choice and not across the board.
Bad forum poster. Bad.
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Level 10? Of course you can two shot bosses at that level, on my SS if I exemplar down I can one shot bosses with KO Blow as I was doing that in a Positron TF. If you are basing the damage of a set at level ten thats a very bad time to judge it.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
This set does stupid damage without Fiery Embrace through the combo system. At level 10 I was 2-shotting bosses with full Fury, a 3-combo Sweeping Cross and Rib Cracker. If it was adjusted to do less damage with FE, then it's probably a good idea considering just how absurdly this hard this set hits with 3 combo points.
I'm pretty disappointed you made a thread with this title. Way to freak people out, especially considering it's only for Fiery Embrace, ONE secondary set choice and not across the board. Bad forum poster. Bad. |
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Regardless, if what you say is true the only thing that's changed is the FE damage.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Level 10? Of course you can two shot bosses at that level, on my SS if I exemplar down I can one shot bosses with KO Blow as I was doing that in a Positron TF. If you are basing the damage of a set at level ten thats a very bad time to judge it.
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Not worth making a "Street Justice Nerfed" post.
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Are you aware of the guy's posting history? :P
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Bad forum poster. Bad.
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No. Uh oh.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
Are you aware of the guy's posting history? :P
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
not gonna stop me from rolling my SJ/SR Broot 
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Just so you hear it from someone who isn't Ultimus, a level 10 Brute with any powerset can achieve that, or do even better. Fury has a massive effect at low levels, where mob HPs are not balanced for a ~160% damage boost. I'm not really impressed by 2 shotting them after building up the combo points with full fury (by "full", I assume you mean about 80%). That's no big deal for a level 10 Brute. It's not Street Justice that is absurd in that situation, it's Fury at level 10. That being said, I have no experience with Street Justice at higher levels where one could really judge its capability in comparison to other sets, but on paper, it looks pretty middle of the road to me.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
This set does stupid damage without Fiery Embrace through the combo system. At level 10 I was 2-shotting bosses with full Fury, a 3-combo Sweeping Cross and Rib Cracker. If it was adjusted to do less damage with FE, then it's probably a good idea considering just how absurdly this hard this set hits with 3 combo points.
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But I agree that you can't call changes to an unreleased powerset "nerfs". And I don't think that there even were changes from what I have seen.
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Something that hasn't been released yet cannot be nerfed. It's impossible.
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To be fair, the AoE, last I saw, is focused on the target, not the caster, so it doesn't make a whole lotta sense anyway. Unless that was fixed along with the "6 feet" change.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
And, again, it's a physical attack made with your character's foot and fist; it makes no sense for it to have the radius of, say, Foot Stomp
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Perhaps it cannot be "nerfed"... it would just simply be nerf.
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Originally Posted by BeyondReach
Something that hasn't been released yet cannot be nerfed. It's impossible.
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@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
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I've heard the term "pre-nerfed' used, with powersets like Blaster Psychic Blast.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Perhaps it cannot be "nerfed"... it would just simply be nerf.
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Yeah, but it makes a whole lotta awesome.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
To be fair, the AoE, last I saw, is focused on the target, not the caster, so it doesn't make a whole lotta sense anyway.
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Hahah! You've just sold me on getting Street Justice when it comes out. |
Originally Posted by Liquid
Yeah, but it makes a whole lotta awesome.
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Bolded the relevant part. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't know why people feel the need to make what is an AoE already 12 feet across centred on an enemy who could be 7 feet away from you and in the middle of a mob of other enemies even bigger, especially considering how hard that power already hits, but I didn't get to play around with the set at level 50 so I don't know how well it's balanced. We'll see.
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The people crying nerf are forgetting that the AoE in question is not centered on your character.
You target an enemy, and the AoE hits anything within 6 feet of that enemy in every direction, instead of clicking the power and hitting everything within 6 feet of yourself. That means you can activate the power from outside a mob, and hit more targets with it because you are not taking up space in the middle of the AoE. How many enemies can you pack into a 12 foot wide circle? That's how many you can hit with the power.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Everything old is new again.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
Are you aware of the guy's posting history? :P
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Agreed. Looked at another way, a 6-foot targeted AoE accounts for almost everything in melee range of the enemy you hit, and that's not a small area. I'm not sure how it compares to... Actually, let's do a direct comparison.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You target an enemy, and the AoE hits anything within 6 feet of that enemy in every direction, instead of clicking the power and hitting everything within 6 feet of yourself. That means you can activate the power from outside a mob, and hit more targets with it because you are not taking up space in the middle of the AoE. How many enemies can you pack into a 12 foot wide circle? That's how many you can hit with the power.
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A 6-foot AoE has a total land area of roughly 133 square feet. Let's compare this to a high-hitting cone like Golden Dragonfly. That has a 10 foot range with a 20 degree cone, which comes up to a whopping... 17 and a half square feet. Huh.
Granted, one power is a cone and another is an AoE, but Head Splitter/Golden Dragonfly are largely considered to be pretty good powers, and they ARE from my own experience, yet their AoE potential is, frankly, minimal, Oh, sure, you can fit four or five targets in said cone if you're really good and REALLY lucky, but on average you're going to hit two, at most three enemies. I'm pretty sure the power in question can replicate that, and I'm also fairly sure it's not exactly balanced as an AoE.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by BeyondReach
Something that hasn't been released yet cannot be nerfed. It's impossible.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Apparently "pre-nerfing unreleased content" is the MMO version of a time paradox. |
Originally Posted by BeyondReach
Something that hasn't been released yet cannot be nerfed. It's impossible.
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Haha, while I believe it is clear that Street Justice is not made of nerf...
I'm really not sure why people would consider a power that was available for a while in a beta, and then lowered to an effectiveness well below general expectation... could not be considered "nerfed".
Again 1) This is not the case with Street Justice 2) "nerf" is a term that gets way over-used and should be limited to cases that compare to a sharp metal sword that gets turned into a soft, foam-padded toy sword 3) Beta or live, if sword gets turned into a toy, how is that not a nerf?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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The basic definition of the word "nerf" in a MMO context is "anything that worked one way for a while then got changed by the Devs to make that thing be less overpowered or unbalanced than it originally was". But I think a key implied part of that word is that it has to be something that was in the LIVE game that got changed. You can't nerf something that technically doesn't exist in the live game yet. It's like demoting a future solider who's not actually in the Army yet - it makes no sense.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I'm really not sure why people would consider a power that was available for a while in a beta, and then lowered to an effectiveness well below general expectation... could not be considered "nerfed".
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I'd agree that Street Justice got changed between now and last month. But that change was PRIOR to its official release. The Devs might yet change it a hundred different other ways before it's released and none of those changes could really be called nerfs or boosts either. Those words really only have meaning to us once the feature in question is live and its baseline is established.
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That word that you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means...
The word you are looking for here is balanced. When something is in beta it is being tested.
When something is created, tested, then changed, it's been balanced. In other words weighted against other powers in the set, and in whatever values it's meant for in use within the available character choises (in this case ATs), and weighted with its use in game.
Nerf happens only after players have been using a particular power in a live scenario and its believed to already be balanced or working as intended. Even then, since placing something in a live game environment can still end up utilized in previously unforseen ways, the devs can go in and continue to balance it.
To the devs, they're balancing the power, to the players its a nerf now, only because its been live and being used that way.
You can't nerf something when its in beta, that's what beta is for, testing things out.
I've never heard the definition include the underlined part of "...that worked one way for a while".
And, honestly, based on the origin and meaning of the term, I don't agree with that.
Haha, no big deal, but yeah... If something was awesome in beta and then got changed to be vastly under-powered, the term "nerfed" applies by any standard of reasoning I can think of as well as any urban dictionary references I've read. I've never applied emotional and/or player-time-investment into the judgment of "nerfed or not" and I think such inclusion makes things messy (which, maybe, is why the term gets used when it shouldn't... any time somethign is reduced people use the term "nerfed", as opposed to only when it has truly been made under-powered).
Anyway, honestly, just another interesting distinction I'm seeing people make in this thread that I'd not seen before and (thus far) don't agree with.
I challenge thee to a nerf duel!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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See, this is exactly the incorrect usage of "nerfed" that is now going on further and to create more odd "rules" of its misuse.|
Originally Posted by Tannim222
That word that you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means...
The word you are looking for here is balanced. When something is in beta it is being tested. When something is created, tested, then changed, it's been balanced. In other words weighted against other powers in the set, and in whatever values it's meant for in use within the available character choises (in this case ATs), and weighted with its use in game. Nerf happens only after players have been using a particular power in a live scenario and its believed to already be balanced or working as intended. Even then, since placing something in a live game environment can still end up utilized in previously unforseen ways, the devs can go in and continue to balance it. To the devs, they're balancing the power, to the players its a nerf now, only because its been live and being used that way. You can't nerf something when its in beta, that's what beta is for, testing things out. |
Nerfing is not simply when things have been reduced. Yes, overzealous players use it as such... just as people regularly misuse many words of their languages...
Nerfing is a rare instance in which the developers actually did go too far (by objective standards) in the reduction of something's effectiveness.
Only by holding onto a false meaning of "nerf" do people connect it to time and emotional investment.
Weird.
Anyway, I'll likely be the only one adhering to any such thoughts, so I must be wrong.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I disagree the set was approaching anything resembling overpowered. It was a solid middle-of-the-pack performer. It won't ever replace Super Strength in farms. People see the cool animations and get the false impression it's overpowered (The Dual Pistols Effect: especially good/fancy animations can lead people to believe a set is better than it is).
The set's upper damage potential is kept in check by the combo system. Judged as a whole, the set is very well balanced IMO.
That said, I don't believe there's been any change at all in the numbers from beta to now.
Always willing to look at evidence to the contrary of course, but I seriously doubt there is any.
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