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I think the problem here is that the "objective standards" you're talking about are usually just as expression of players' SUBJECTIVE disappointment that their favorite toy was reduced in effectiveness. The only "objective standards" the Devs have to care about are their own, not what we the players -think- about it.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Nerfing is a rare instance in which the developers actually did go too far (by objective standards) in the reduction of something's effectiveness.
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Regardless it still makes no sense to describe a pre-release beta test modification to a powerset as a "nerf" in any context.
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You're correct on the definition of the word. However, I'd argue that while that was the original use of the term, over the years its missuse has become more prevalant and now the accepted definition is closer to the scenario I stated than the original.
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Exactly.|
Originally Posted by Tannim222
You're correct on the definition of the word. However, I'd argue that while that was the original use of the term, over the years its missuse has become more prevalant and now the accepted definition is closer to the scenario I stated than the original.
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In fact, more importantly, I recognize now that it has become a standard distinction and, while I may disagree with its conception (so-to-speak), I cannot debate its acceptance!
And, since I am within the realm of this accepted usage, I adhere and adapt to it!
I honestly had never heard/read that distinction, but having read these replies and searched about it a bit more, I see that it has taken these meanings.
Of course, the idea that the beta period does not count could still be debated, haha.
Again, none of this has the slightest importance! Merely a tangential conversation of semantics and such.
And I was behind the times on its accepted usage.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I think the problem here is that the "objective standards" you're talking about are usually just as expression of players' SUBJECTIVE disappointment that their favorite toy was reduced in effectiveness. The only "objective standards" the Devs have to care about are their own, not what we the players -think- about it.
Regardless it still makes no sense to describe a pre-release beta test modification to a powerset as a "nerf" in any context. |
Hehe, "objective standards" was coming from a point far outside that of "as players".
Of course developers craft and fine-tune their games as they see fit.
Just as a king may off his wives' heads and have it be legal, outsiders can still have objective opinions on it.
I could go into why the term could be applied to a beta period, but... do any of us really want to bother?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
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It -could- be debated. But I'll still be at a loss as to how you can compare one version of a thing that does not officially exist in the game yet with another version that does not officially exist yet and use terms for those comparisons that only have meaning within the context of the game.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I could go into why the term could be applied to a beta period, but... do any of us really want to bother?
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Nerfing implies a Status Quo has been changed. There is no Status Quo here yet to be changed.
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Perhaps it is just me chafing against my outdated definition of "nerfed". |
Originally Posted by Lothic
It -could- be debated. But I'll still be at a loss as to how you can compare one version of a thing that does not officially exist in the game yet with another version that does not officially exist yet and use terms for those comparisons that only have meaning within the context of the game.
Nerfing implies a Status Quo has been changed. There is no Status Quo here yet to be changed. |
If you replace nerfed with reduced to under-powered-ness, you can see that those lines of live/beta have no bearing.
So, yeah, I see how others make that distinction now.
You should be able to see where I was coming from now.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
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Which is exactly what Thunderstrike is but that hits very little targets *AND* it has a 1 foot wider radius then Street Justice's AOE power. Its also very rare to be on the outside of a mob with a taunt aura going because the mobs will instantly crowd around you. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Bolded the relevant part.
The people crying nerf are forgetting that the AoE in question is not centered on your character. You target an enemy, and the AoE hits anything within 6 feet of that enemy in every direction, instead of clicking the power and hitting everything within 6 feet of yourself. That means you can activate the power from outside a mob, and hit more targets with it because you are not taking up space in the middle of the AoE. How many enemies can you pack into a 12 foot wide circle? That's how many you can hit with the power. |
Granted this doesn't apply to a Scrapper or Stalker (Do Stalker's even get this power?) but a targeted AOE like that is not very good. I have a level 50 Elec / Energy Aura and Thunderstrike is hard to accurately place especially with the added taunt aura to EA now.
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Stalkers lose Shin Breaker. They may or may not be compensated for that with a buff to one of the other single target attacks in th set.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
Which is exactly what Thunderstrike is but that hits very little targets *AND* it has a 1 foot wider radius then Street Justice's AOE power. Its also very rare to be on the outside of a mob with a taunt aura going because the mobs will instantly crowd around you.
Granted this doesn't apply to a Scrapper or Stalker (Do Stalker's even get this power?) but a targeted AOE like that is not very good. I have a level 50 Elec / Energy Aura and Thunderstrike is hard to accurately place especially with the added taunt aura to EA now. |
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
I just realized I'll be spending a considerable amount of time using Shin Breaker to curbstomp and groinstomp enemies who've been knocked down.
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I know that's not the place to post this but i'm looking for some info on the street justice power set, how can i create a char with this powerset?, is just in the test server or is live? i have been trying to buy it in the paragon market but i can't find it...
Thanks a lot for the help.
Repeating: I cannot in good conscience call it a nerf for a power that never saw live.
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Did anything else change about it to balance the radius change? You didn't say anything re: damage, endurance cost, rech time,....|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
I am looking over Street Justice numbers after today's patch and I noticed a few things changed. The AOE is now down to a 6 foot radius it was around 8.
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Originally Posted by Shadowblaze
Man, you guys sure are making it sound like it's certain that Street Justice is coming out on Tuesday. Better not be getting my hopes up for nothing. :P
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You can't use it yet. It was in beta for a little while, then taken out, and it's slated be added to the Paragon Store sometime between now and the end of the year.
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Originally Posted by Bandejat
I know that's not the place to post this but i'm looking for some info on the street justice power set, how can i create a char with this powerset?, is just in the test server or is live? i have been trying to buy it in the paragon market but i can't find it...
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I'm hoping Street Justice goes up for purchase tonight at Midnight (PDT). If it doesn't I'll do something childish and immature, such as lightning my Positron Hero-Clix on fire.
Well, its a good thing they balanced this set by nerfing it prior to release.
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/youre welcome
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Such a long thread about None Expanding Recreational Foam!
And I agree with Lothic's description of Nerf. Oh, and Street Justice is the awesome sauce.
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I feel sorry for your Positron.
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Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
I'm hoping Street Justice goes up for purchase tonight at Midnight (PDT). If it doesn't I'll do something childish and immature, such as lightning my Positron Hero-Clix on fire.
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Just going to go on file that I did get a chance to use StJ at level 50 with an SR/StJ Tanker. Compared to an /SS Tanker, I wasn't doing quite as much damage, nor was I hitting as many enemies, but considering the frequency I was hitting enemies with the targeted AoE (which is quite nice, as I find it's actually easier to target with and much less likely to waste) along with the cone attack (forgot its name) and the fact you don't have to worry about Rage crashes, I'd say it's an "up there" set. Considering Footstomp isn't available until 32 or 38 depending on AT, I'd say it balances out well. StJ will put out a lot of damage, has a fun game mechanic not nearly as meticulous as Dual Blades, with above average AoE, sustainable damage, and coolness. This was at the very end of Beta, btw, so it was with whatever range was there then. I was hitting some ridiculous amounts of enemies at a time.
While 6 ft. seems a bit small, 7 ft. would seem balanced to me (melee range from target) 8 ft. is too much. Though honestly, a spinning strike with foot and fist hitting enemies all around the target? Only Chuck Norris or Blue Steel could pull that off.
What's more, it'll be available for every melee AT, which can't be said about SS.
And yes, the sooner it comes out, the better.
Ok no one has mentioned the other part of the post:
Some of the attacks are only enhanced 25% by Fiery Embrace
My question is why? EVERY other powerset in the game gets a 45% increase when effected by Fiery Embrace even Energy Transfer which is the single hardest hitting melee attack in the game outside of Assassin Strike.
Not to mention the combo attacks also only effect the level 0 damage for fiery embrace not the current level which is basically a 10-15% nerf there as well.
The set is not over the top so why does it have these flaws when paired with this powerset?
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Have you PMed a Developer? Ya know, the ones that actually make the powersets?|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Ok no one has mentioned the other part of the post:
Some of the attacks are only enhanced 25% by Fiery Embrace My question is why? EVERY other powerset in the game gets a 45% increase when effected by Fiery Embrace even Energy Transfer which is the single hardest hitting melee attack in the game outside of Assassin Strike. Not to mention the combo attacks also only effect the level 0 damage for fiery embrace not the current level which is basically a 10-15% nerf there as well. The set is not over the top so why does it have these flaws when paired with this powerset? |
Lastly Ultimus, stop trying to bait people into reading your threads and posts by using the word nerf whenever possible. The set hasn't been nerfed and stating so constantly will only lead to rumors. Now go solo something and then take credit for it like you were the first one ever.
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That sounds like a bug to me, and when Street Justice goes live, if it remains at only 25%, I'll be /bug'ing it.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Ok no one has mentioned the other part of the post:
Some of the attacks are only enhanced 25% by Fiery Embrace My question is why? EVERY other powerset in the game gets a 45% increase when effected by Fiery Embrace even Energy Transfer which is the single hardest hitting melee attack in the game outside of Assassin Strike. |
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| Not to mention the combo attacks also only effect the level 0 damage for fiery embrace not the current level which is basically a 10-15% nerf there as well. |
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