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Then don't buy it.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
That would be true Sam, except the devs still arbitrarily decide what comes out based on what they feel is best for us.
"You can get it in any colour, as long as it's black" still applies if the art team for example decides to only release it in black. You could just not get it, but that has always been the option. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I'm as "Old Guard" as you, and I'm not part of your "our", so these are your requests, not "ours".|
Originally Posted by elvnsword09
So here is our list of, well desires, not demands, but desires:
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
1. Keep the Servers UP!
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
2. Enough with new Currency... in fact roll Threads and Shards into the same thing and let it drop like Shards do. The Empyrean Merits, and Astral Merits are crap too.
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
3. Enough with the Farm Hate. Yes I understand Time/v/Payoff, but the farms are driving the economy for your game and without us it would be very difficult to keep things rolling. Not to mention while your trying to punish illicit behavior, a lot of players getting caught in the crossfire are innocent of any wrong doing. How is the Market a mini game, as has been cited by the devs, and the Farms aren't. Each takes a specialized set of skills, patience, long term planning, and both reap in game monetary benefits for the character. The market benefits a player MORE then the Farms if your looking at Risk v Reward, (lvl 2 player can sell his Tutorial Inspirations, use that as capitol and get over a billion in a week, it's been done on the market forums).
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As for whether farming is a mini-game, it is. It's the mini-game of you vs. the devs. The catch is that you always win. The rez change was a joke because you can just remove that power and get right back to work. It's barely a blip in your farming radar. If the devs truly despised farms, they'd make every mission timed and do away with XP in AE. They haven't. In years of combating farms, they haven't gone that extreme. So just farm, know that your farm won't last forever, and learn to adapt.
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
4. We are living in a time of low economy in the USA, and Europe, your prime playerbase, so Enough Micro-Transactions, VIP Players shouldn't have to spend money for what would have been free content in issues 1-19. New costumes, new powersets, all that should be VIP Content automatically. If you want to Micro-transact the f2p players, fine, that's what they get for not subscribing. Micro-Transactions should NEVER EVER effect content for VIP Players. We already pay for our content, please let it reflect that.
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
5. No more mixed signals. Farms should be ok. Even farms where we have resurrecting enemies. Yes we figured out ways to build toons to stand up to it. But now we have Incarnate Trials we are basically required to farm day in day out if we want the shiny armor, and powers locked behind Empyrean Michael and Astral whatsherface (I don't know cause the Servers are Down!). One minute your encouraging us to repeat content as much as possible the next we are being told that isn't ok.
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
In closing, please keep the Old Guard happy, we're your steady paycheck, your solid gold, and this flash in the pan from the Micro-transactions are just that, fools gold, cause they won't last, but we Old Guard, if you keep us happy, we would love to stick around for years to come.
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- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
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They're still shooting blind, I think. If their Marketing boys and girls are smart, they'll soon tune into what we're most willing to pay for without a hint of regret and focus on making more of that. It makes business sense to give players what they want when players will pay you extra to get what they want. That's as opposed to giving players what they never really asked for and having them turn their noses up at what must have cost a whole lot of money to create.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
That would be true Sam, except the devs still arbitrarily decide what comes out based on what they feel is best for us.
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Years ago, Matt Miller promised to "give the players what they want, within reason," and in his defence, that's a lot of what we got. However, beyond keeping players around, the team never had an actual, practical motivation to do that, other than being the kind, generous souls that they are (BABs and Power Customization, say). Now that the difference between guessing what players want and missing that guess defines profit margins, I can bet you dollars to doughnuts we'll see a lot more of the stuff we've always wanted show up. Always for a price, of course, but that's just the price of getting what you want.
For all the different ways I crap on the game, even right now, I still have more faith in its future than I pretty much ever had before. And I don't say that lightly.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yep!|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
That would be true Sam, except the devs still arbitrarily decide what comes out based on what they feel is best for us.
"You can get it in any colour, as long as it's black" still applies if the art team for example decides to only release it in black. You could just not get it, but that has always been the option. |
"Here's your Hoverboard"
"GREAT! I was a pretty good smallwave surfer back in Cape Canaveral before *gestures to self* THIS happened. Um, it's red and white striped (sorta PINKish, really). You got it in any other color?"
"Here's your Hoverboard"
"No, seriously. The white overlaying the red washes it out so badly. How about black and white, if it MUST have stripes. Or maybe just red, with no stripes if it has to be red?
"Here's your Hoverboard"
*Huge Dark/Dark Brute jumps on hoverboard and curses Cloak of Darkness for not hiding him from the jeering crowd*
Hmm, things people get in I21 for free off the top of my head...
Powerset Proliferation.
Revamped Mercy Island/Atlas Park
3 arcs on each side covering levels 5-20.
Death From Below lowbie sewer trial.
Things people get in i21 just by being a subscriber:
Time Manipulation Powerset
IDF + Defence Costume Sets
Access to the Signature Story Arcs
First Ward
Access to Going Rogue content (if not previously purchased before)
Underground Incarnate Trial
Pretty sure I'm missing some other things.
As for microtransactions, there are some prices I'm not happy with, so... I've said so. And not paid for them.
There are some prices I'm -very- happy for, so said so, and paid for them. (Much love Cape/Aura Global Unlock, 160 PP each!)
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
They decried as a slippery slop leading to micro-transactions and no more free content updates. I, along with many Old Guard told them to sit on they're hands and be quiet the Devs knew what they were doing.
Then comes the I21 update. EVERYTHING in a micro-transaction. I was proven wrong. |
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| 4. We are living in a time of low economy in the USA, and Europe, your prime playerbase, so Enough Micro-Transactions, VIP Players shouldn't have to spend money for what would have been free content in issues 1-19. New costumes, new powersets, all that should be VIP Content automatically. |
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
You put in changes to severely curtail AE farming, but then expect us to farm Incarnate content. You push the farmers down, then encourage them to provide for your market in game. It is a VERY mixed signal.
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AE farming has the potential to be 'bad farming'. The ambush farms are absolutely exploitive and a problem. If MARTy smacks that down hard, GOOD.
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| I'm begging here, enough with the Downtime. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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This is true but, before the entitlement crowd jumps on it, let me point out that you would be paying all this extra money for something that was NEVER EVEN AVAILABLE previously. Anyone who thinks it's too expensive (like myself) can simply not buy it. You're not losing anything.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
How far your stipend goes seems to be entirely dependent on how much you actually want. If you want all the inventory increases, you're going to be out hundreds of dollars.
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Originally Posted by MrDead
You know and to add to this. Beam Rifle costs 800 points. Two times the 'free' points. You HAVE to buy something you would have gotten 'free' in ANY OTHER ISSUE EVER if you want to use it.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
elvnsword09, You've been around for a while so you know these down times and all the extra work they're doing isn't normal, right? Usually when they do an update there may be an issue for a day or two tops and then they straighten it out. The fact that this isn't normal is upsetting people, but knowing their record I'm sure they'll have it straightened out soon.
As for the micro payments for stuff, we get 400 points every month with our monthly payment, power sets won't be released every month. As vets we all know it takes them quite a while to get the power sets out. So in all honesty the 400 points a month can easily cover the new things they'll be releasing for micro payments.
The AE nerf for rezing mobs is hardly a nerf at all. So what if now instead of killing the mobs twice we kill them once and leave. I've never seen an AE map that didn't cap me before I had everything killed anyway, and now I ticket cap and leave fast, get the same xp for effort as before because I only have to kill things once, ticket cap and leave for reset. So in a way they're actually making AE better.
We should try to have more faith in the dev team, we've been with them for years and they havn't let us down yet.
When the rate of deception is high - many honestly naive questions may be quickly rejected as trolling. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Calling someone a troll without posting positive feedback is passive aggressive trolling, so don't do it, stupid.
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Precisely. I didn't buy them, and I WON'T buy them, because it'll be a cold day in hell before I'll pay 20 ******* dollars for 10 enhancement slots. That's $2 per slot. Not until I have my brain and my butt switch around will I ever see this as anything other than highway robbery.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
This is true but, before the entitlement crowd jumps on it, let me point out that you would be paying all this extra money for something that was NEVER EVEN AVAILABLE previously. Anyone who thinks it's too expensive (like myself) can simply not buy it. You're not losing anything.
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So I don't buy it. No harm, no foul. They charge too much, so I don't pay, and the micro-transaction model is working exactly like it should.
As I said - how much you pay comes down to how much you actually want to have, and my personal wishes seem to have turned out to be quite humble, surprising me more most of all. We'll see how that goes with newer costume sets, but if they count down to 12 pieces like the CoT one, I may not get even that much.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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A note on personal attacks in message board forums... once you make a personal attack, or call someone a name, I ignore your points, all of them, made previously or post the attack... in that discussion, Ever.
The primary concern is the perfect storm conditions they are creating among certain divisions of my friend group. Between the f2p "upgrade" the market charging for every new costume piece, even ones we had previously though to get for free, (I'm looking at you CoT), and now nerfs to what is in my friend group a major undertaking and hobby, you have to realize that it is Driving away a portion of the player base. Any portion of the player base, RPer, Farmer, Maketeer, base builder, PvPer or whatever combination there-in are all equally legitimate in my view, so why aren't we all treated that way by the Devs.
The second nerf to AE farms was unnecessary, MARTy was in place, and was suppose to be taking care of the problem yes? Well I had run those farms, since MARTy and we hadn't been hit by him, so the second nerf was specifically aimed at a portion of the Player base.
I am merely reporting on what I am seeing from my circle of friends who play the game regularly, but they are dropping like flies. Maybe your Right Grae Knight, maybe they needed the break anyway, but I have played since 2004, and this is the first time I have logged in and not seen a lot of the globals (like 12) that I am use to seeing light online.
That's disturbing to me. And when I also see an entire, massive movement by a major SG coalition to another game from Virtue, (Unknown Heroes, I know I know they're not popular, but they are a huge group of players) ... well that disturbs me deeply, and both groups cited the same reasons I cited in this post. Continued downtime, f2p/micro-transaction structure, and a climate of dev vs player rather then the community we have always enjoyed.
What I am asking for is a little sanity here. Look at it like this, the VIPs are your Gold Standard, we are the steady income, keep us happy and you keep the lights on. The f2p players are the flash in the pan spenders... they might be the ones willing to pop for the controller archtype, or the item on the market more often, simply cause they don't have 6 years at $15 a month invested already. The VIP Player should never HAVE to spend more then his VIP membership to get what he wants from the game. QoL changes, like the new costumes, new costume slots (which btw are WAY to expensive but thanks so much for teasing us with them every time we change costumes), and storage... all that should have been VIP free in my opinion, because the more you keep the VIP happy, the more he will keep playing. The longer he keeps playing and paying, the longer the lights stay on. Microtransaction might cause a slight increase in revenue for the first month to two months, but then there will be a marked decrease in subscribers,(due to people going premium, and players getting disgusted with behavior of Freemium players), and a marked decrease in willingness to buy, as the shiny new wears off the market.
Add to it a TON of downtime this month, which is no longer about "prepping for launch" as the Freemiums are here, but is about managing to move servers, and upload content to the store that should have been uploaded with the new issue (the CoT costumes).
I am not trying to come off as entitled or as if I am complaining, I am calling for sanity, and for us to get back to a community feel, rather then a me vs you, and a you vs the devs feeling. I don't want to be vs anyone other then the PvE of the game, (and maybe PvP, occasionally, in the right zone).
So in closing,
Down Time Bad, New Mission Content Good
New in-game Currency VERY Bad, New Costumes Very Good
Store Bad, Store Prices Worse... New Powersets Good,
We all love CoH, it's why we are here... let's work togther to make it all good rather then having things that make the player base cringe...
~Elvnsword
"when i can savagely beat sheep while issuing ultimatums and torturing people, then i may go back into it" -vara nocturne
Not enough Evil...
I take it back NC SOFT is enough evil for anyone...
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Unless this thread has been modded...I see no personal attacks on anyone...
| A note on personal attacks in message board forums... once you make a personal attack, or call someone a name, I ignore your points, all of them, made previously or post the attack... in that discussion, Ever. |
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Maybe he believes disagreement is an attack. |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Unless this thread has been modded...I see no personal attacks on anyone...
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That's nice. Please let me know when you are able to recognize that just because someone insults you, it doesn't actually invalidate any of the logical arguments they may or may not have made, and that a reasonable person would ignore the insult and proceed to consider each argument on its own merits. |
Originally Posted by elvnsword09
A note on personal attacks in message board forums... once you make a personal attack, or call someone a name, I ignore your points, all of them, made previously or post the attack... in that discussion, Ever.
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Do not mention the argument ad hominem fallacy because you would be the one guilty of it, and not them.
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Originally Posted by MrDead
If you have to put ANY money down to receive it then it's not free.
You know and to add to this. Beam Rifle costs 800 points. Two times the 'free' points. You HAVE to buy something you would have gotten 'free' in ANY OTHER ISSUE EVER if you want to use it. |
Or you can be patient and wait one more month to get your next free 400 points.
Concerning downtime... I remember a time when they would compensate us in the form of respec and tailor tokens or turning on event mobs. They do still do the event stuff now and then which is nice but I think its because the devs just want to have fun with us not because they're making up for lost gametime. All in all, I'm happy with things, it could be much worse... they could be Blizzard.
Now if they could do something about server wait times...
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If you've been here as long as you say, you know that if we lost all the players implied by all the players that said all the players they knew were dropping like flies, we'd currently have negative forty thousand players by now.
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Originally Posted by elvnsword09
I am merely reporting on what I am seeing from my circle of friends who play the game regularly, but they are dropping like flies.
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
1. We are all gamers and there are alot of us! therefore ElvnSword represents the people he knows and the people they know and ect.
2. How complex does this stuff have to be? How would you like to be told that I am taking your money that you are paying for a service I provide to and during your time of availability be told "Sorry you can't use my services today." and you are saying "But I paid for these services! I give you money. I sign the agreement. Do I at least get Time credited to for use at a later date?" And the "professional" simply tells you "No, oh and when you do get my services I am going to change how I do things!" I am one of the "Old Guard" as it is called. I was here back in issue 3 with ElvnSword. I do not remember the lag and server difficulties that we are experiencing today on almost constant basis. I love this game but it has changed drastically from the idea it started out to be. Change can be a good thing unless it is a bad thing.
3. Play nice or I will ground all of you from the internet and that means you too Timmy! (LoL! Hey I am a Dad..I am allowed to say such things. Bwahahahahaha!) If you don't like it just go to another thread, this is he/she/it freedom of speech voice. If ya can't stand the heat...then get out of the kitchen. :P catch ya all in the game!
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And I have to add this. FALSE!!! Stop spouting nonsense. Are you claiming we got every previous powerset for free? If so, that's a lie and you SHOULD know it. Or are you forgetting Demon Summoning, Dual Pistols, Kinetic Melee?|
Originally Posted by Archangel Mychael
1. We are all gamers and there are alot of us! therefore ElvnSword represents the people he knows and the people they know and ect.
2. How complex does this stuff have to be? How would you like to be told that I am taking your money that you are paying for a service I provide to and during your time of availability be told "Sorry you can't use my services today." and you are saying "But I paid for these services! I give you money. I sign the agreement. Do I at least get Time credited to for use at a later date?" And the "professional" simply tells you "No, oh and when you do get my services I am going to change how I do things!" I am one of the "Old Guard" as it is called. I was here back in issue 3 with ElvnSword. I do not remember the lag and server difficulties that we are experiencing today on almost constant basis. I love this game but it has changed drastically from the idea it started out to be. Change can be a good thing unless it is a bad thing. 3. Play nice or I will ground all of you from the internet and that means you too Timmy! (LoL! Hey I am a Dad..I am allowed to say such things. Bwahahahahaha!) If you don't like it just go to another thread, this is he/she/it freedom of speech voice. If ya can't stand the heat...then get out of the kitchen. :P catch ya all in the game! |
and Mr. Iltat needs to remind himself that he is also a small part of the community. If you have friends and are chatting in the game and find a problem with a certain something then you are going to say something. Yes Elvnsword speaks for more than just himself. I haven't tried the AE farm yet to be honest but I usually find his arguements to be logical based and not just him fussing. So either you agree with what he say or you don't and find somewhere else to post something. Not everyone wants your aggravation. Spread some peace people. Take it out on the bad guys or something.
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Originally Posted by Archangel Mychael
1. We are all gamers and there are alot of us! therefore ElvnSword represents the people he knows and the people they know and ect.
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That's funny cuz I was told by all the people he knows and all the people they know that they want Arcanaville to represent them because they agree with everything she's been saying.
Except the micro transactions don't feel very micro for some items... 
I will miss you City of Heroes..
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Like people who resub the same month a game goes free, just to post on the forums about how much free/premium players get screwed?|
Originally Posted by Archangel Mychael
and Mr. Iltat needs to remind himself that he is also a small part of the community. If you have friends and are chatting in the game and find a problem with a certain something then you are going to say something. Yes Elvnsword speaks for more than just himself. I haven't tried the AE farm yet to be honest but I usually find his arguements to be logical based and not just him fussing. So either you agree with what he say or you don't and find somewhere else to post something. Not everyone wants your aggravation. Spread some peace people. Take it out on the bad guys or something.
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We get it, you don't like it. But ya know what? We just don't care anymore.
I feel it isneccasary to clear up that I was refering to a specificpost and not generaldisagreement when I said something about personal attacks.
Namecalling with profanity IS forbidden by policy on the boards and will get a thread locked. , I am simply trying to nip it in the bud.
The problem remains... microtransactions that aren't micro
Tons of new content locked behind new currencies, but farming is bad mkay...
Its a lot of mixed signals and messages.
Give us what we pay for, good service, new content every so often, and we are happy,messs with the well to much and you risk fouling the water as my grandfather would say.
"when i can savagely beat sheep while issuing ultimatums and torturing people, then i may go back into it" -vara nocturne
Not enough Evil...
I take it back NC SOFT is enough evil for anyone...
Sorry, elvnsword, but the micros here are micros. Just have a look around at any other branded MMO that's gone to this hybrid model in the last two years and check out their store prices. Four hundred points equating to five dollars is probably one of the best value for money deals going around in these games, and I'm currently messing around on two such games other than CoH right now.
And these transactions are the staple of the very nature of the beast you are railing against. I haven't seen anyone complain about the actual cost values of the Rocket Board, the CoT costume pack, not even the Going Rogue or Alignment portions of the game.
Not one.
As for 'tons of new content locked behind new currencies', that's not entirely true. There is some new content there, but it's achievable content, and not something that free players even have to worry about if they choose not to become VIP's. Do I think there are too many currencies? Yes. Do I think it's an overwhelming and overly complex portion of the game? No. Many players can play the entire lifespan of their experience without even coming into any sort of serious interaction with these currencies, and more importantly, their management and expenditure is categorised and unintrusive to our gaming experience. I have never once complained about currency x cluttering my Salvage space.
Like any other game, the devs here will think of ways to allow access and progress in a particular game activity. Note that we don't have to pay for running repairs to our abilities, we do not have to farm to improve said abilities (they're in fact readily available in in-game stores) and we certainly don't have to pay anything just to level up. We have an enormous latitude and freedom here that is unhindered by game currencies, and to claim otherwise is a fallacy.
You may claim sir that a significant portion of players are leaving, but as Arcanaville has said, if we added up all the claims that people such as yourself have made about people leaving, we wouldn't even be posting here. If you don't like how the game functions, great. And you have the freedom of speech to say so. But please don't be disingenous and try and state it as some fact.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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This tells me that you haven't read through the entire thread in the i21 Beta forums about feedback on the market prices. (Not that I blame you, it is quite long.)|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
And these transactions are the staple of the very nature of the beast you are railing against. I haven't seen anyone complain about the actual cost values of the Rocket Board, the CoT costume pack, not even the Going Rogue or Alignment portions of the game.
Not one. |
There have been several who have complained about the prices of the Rocket Board.
And there have been quite a few who complained about costume packs in general, and several who complained about the CoT costume pack.
I admit I have only seen a couple who have complained about the Going Rogue or Alignment portions (and, admittedly, I am one of them).
But if you haven't seen anyone complain about any of the prices, then you haven't been looking hard enough on these forums. (Again, not that I blame you. It isn't worthwhile to do so.)
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I'm slightly confused. Are you replying to your own post and strongly disagreeing with yourself? Because that's kind of what it looks like.|
Originally Posted by Archangel Mychael
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and Mr. Iltat needs to remind himself that he is also a small part of the community. If you have friends and are chatting in the game and find a problem with a certain something then you are going to say something. Yes Elvnsword speaks for more than just himself. I haven't tried the AE farm yet to be honest but I usually find his arguements to be logical based and not just him fussing. So either you agree with what he say or you don't and find somewhere else to post something. Not everyone wants your aggravation. Spread some peace people. Take it out on the bad guys or something. |
In any case, these forums are primarily for player discussion. Anyone who posts anything on these forums must expect to see people agree with them, people disagree with them, and people who just don't care. Every post is an invitation to the rest of the forums to comment. There's no such thing as a player dictating expectations for replies to a thread. When that happens, one of two things tends to happen: a ton of backlash posts, and the deafening silence of absolutely no one replying. Personally, I've always thought the latter looked more depressing than the former.
However, no one has the legitimate expectation or the right to demand that only people who agree should reply.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
What's more, now that "you get what you pay for," this has enabled me to vote with my money. I no longer have to worry about what someone on the art team feels looks good, because I get what I choose to get. If I want large weapons for women, then I say so. When large weapons for women come out, I WILL pay for it. This gives incentive to the development team to develop what players are asking for, as opposed to what their "vision" dictates people should want.
"You can get it in any colour, as long as it's black" no longer applies to the game, and if this costs me a few extra dollars a month, that power alone is more than worth it. City of Heroes is still by FAR the cheapest form of entertainment that I know of which is actually entertaining for more than a day, and if I have to pay for it, I will pay for it.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!