The Last Two Buffs Regen Needs
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-09-16 24:36 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I just picked up the veteran reward self res so I can respec out of revive. It's pretty sad when a vet power available to everyone* is better than a high tier power in my secondary set.
*or just using the equivalent insps
Both seem like good suggestions to me.
2 would put the set more in line with the other self rez powers in the game. As you said, Revive right now is basically equivalent to a wakie... if you pop it, there's a good chance you'll go back down before you finish animating!
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Right now my Return to battle vet power is better than revive - it may only return you to 1/4 health and 1/2 end but it also makes you untouchable for 15s. At the very least Revive should be that good.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Both seem like good suggestions to me.
2 would put the set more in line with the other self rez powers in the game. As you said, Revive right now is basically equivalent to a wakie... if you pop it, there's a good chance you'll go back down before you finish animating! |
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Maybe to fit in line with Regeneration, you could get a regeneration effect on your character for 15 seconds or something along with increased defence and resistance. Basically another Moment of Glory, but only activated on defeat. A lite-version of Valkyrie's Rise of the Valkyrie rez where the old version of Moment of Glory is activated as soon as she revives, haha. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
Right now my Return to battle vet power is better than revive - it may only return you to 1/4 health and 1/2 end but it also makes you untouchable for 15s. At the very least Revive should be that good.
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The devs know what my position is on that one. But I won't derail a general discussion of the topic by repeating it.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
1. Give it 95% Regeneration Debuff Resistance. Regeneration is the set's keystone, just like Defense is Super Reflexes' keystone. SR is allowed to hang on to its Defense, Regeneration should be allowed to hang on to its Regeneration.
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The devs know what my position is on that one. But I won't derail a general discussion of the topic by repeating it.
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Seems like regen could still use some resistance to me.
I know nobody's asked for this, but it'd be thematic:
Add defense debuff resistance to regen. Those bullet wounds healed up instantly, right?
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Totally agreed. Regen is a one trick pony, just like SR and so I agree that it should resist regen debuffs. It would be thematically fitting as well. |
Originally Posted by Daemodand
Regen is a pretty good set, but it does need a bit of help to put it where it should be.
1. Give it 95% Regeneration Debuff Resistance. Regeneration is the set's keystone, just like Defense is Super Reflexes' keystone. SR is allowed to hang on to its Defense, Regeneration should be allowed to hang on to its Regeneration. 2. Let Revive cast the equivalent of Moment of Glory on you when you use it. Using Revive currently too often results in you just getting defeated again. This change would make the power worth more and make the set overall more fun. |
And yes, Revive is sometimes worse than a wakie and it seems out of line with the revives that other, more recent sets receive.
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Buffing Revive would also create a real LOL situation on fire farms.
One of the things that annoy me is that when I am running towards mobs first and I think "Oh I better use Moment of Glory" then "Shazam" I stop for near enough 3 secs and end up running in behind the team.
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Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
I know nobody's asked for this, but it'd be thematic:
Add defense debuff resistance to regen. Those bullet wounds healed up instantly, right? |
Probably oughtta add some defense before you add ddr.
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That....would be damn funny actually.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Buffing Revive would also create a real LOL situation on fire farms.
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Buff Revive all you want, I'm still not taking it.
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Regeneration is not the corner stone of regens survival, but the two click heals, MoG, and sometimes IH are.|
Originally Posted by Daemodand
Regen is a pretty good set, but it does need a bit of help to put it where it should be.
1. Give it 95% Regeneration Debuff Resistance. Regeneration is the set's keystone, just like Defense is Super Reflexes' keystone. SR is allowed to hang on to its Defense, Regeneration should be allowed to hang on to its Regeneration. |
Personally I'd be happier if they just renamed it Clicky heal.
I am having fun with my new SS/Click Heal brute though.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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It's not, or it sometimes is... which is it? |
Originally Posted by Gobbledygook
Regeneration is not the corner stone of regens survival, but [snip] and sometimes IH are.
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(hint: IH gives +regen).Regeneration is all two of the powers do (Fast Healing and IH), and a portion of a third (Integration), along with being enhanced as a side effect of Dull Pain. I'd say that Regeneration is a large portion of what gives Regeneration decent performance (plus, it's the namesake of the set
).For comparison purposes: At level 50 with just common IOs (and no +HP buffs), Regeneration's non-clicky (FH + Health + Integration) regeneration heals as much over time as Reconstruction... That is, on average, both heal you for ~34 HP/Second. With any sort of +HP (Dull Pain, Accolades, Frost Works, etc) the regeneration will pull ahead pretty quickly. It might not be IH levels of regen, but it's still much more than most people realize!
Edit: Oops, the build I ran those numbers through actually had +58% recharge from IOs, so FH + Health + Integration actually beat Recon for HP/S. Your passive regen would be ~32.2 HP/S, and Recon would be 28.7 HP/S.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Forgive me for saying so, but despite its name, I find the regeneration secondary in many cases to well timed healing powers. As such, -recharge can be far deadlier in many combat situations. As regeneration relies on click-based powers more than any other armor set, I have no idea why it doesn't have higher -recharge resistance.
I admit to only having played one /self empathy toon since the nerf, but I am giving it another try.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
I agree that there could be some untouchable period on Revive. When I first picked up Stygian Return on my WS, I though "wow, ok - this is a solid rez power." Then I took Restore Essence on my PB and was reminded "oh right - same old crappy Revive" when I died again mid-animation.
If there aren't any major balance reasons behind why there isn't an untouchable period, I'd like to see one added to both the Regen and PB versions. Heck, if it's fair for Freaks to be untouchable now, why not us, right?
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i agree. Combat rezzes, especially those for melee ATs, should all have an untouchable period.
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Originally Posted by gec72
I agree that there could be some untouchable period on Revive. When I first picked up Stygian Return on my WS, I though "wow, ok - this is a solid rez power." Then I took Restore Essence on my PB and was reminded "oh right - same old crappy Revive" when I died again mid-animation.
If there aren't any major balance reasons behind why there isn't an untouchable period, I'd like to see one added to both the Regen and PB versions. Heck, if it's fair for Freaks to be untouchable now, why not us, right? |
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This topic received a good talking about a while back in the Scrapper forums. At the time, there was pretty universal agreement that Revive was rubbish, but there was not universal agreement about what debuff resistance Regen would most benefit from.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Forgive me for saying so, but despite its name, I find the regeneration secondary in many cases to well timed healing powers. As such, -recharge can be far deadlier in many combat situations. As regeneration relies on click-based powers more than any other armor set, I have no idea why it doesn't have higher -recharge resistance.
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Where one one's experience in this realm lies likely depends a lot on build and the mission difficulty settings with which one plays. On the settings at which I play, access to Reconstruction, Dull Pain and MoG dominate my likelihood of surviving combat with a typical spawn. If those powers are unavailable, I usually have to fall back until they become available.
Because of this, I am in the camp that says -recharge is more deadly to my character than -regen is, in general. If my regen rate is completely zeroed, that's a dangerous situation, but not a deadly one. I can usually stand and fight if my regen is zeroed, but it's typical that I have to retreat if badly recharge debuffed. I don't hate the regen resistance we got, but I would have rather gotten the recharge resistance.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
It's not, or it sometimes is... which is it?
(hint: IH gives +regen).Regeneration is all two of the powers do (Fast Healing and IH), and a portion of a third (Integration), along with being enhanced as a side effect of Dull Pain. I'd say that Regeneration is a large portion of what gives Regeneration decent performance (plus, it's the namesake of the set ). |
Also, if I start to ramble a bit, please pardon me, I've been up for almost 24 hours now.
Maybe I should have been a little more specific with my criticism of the set as it now stands. Let me preface this by saying that this is all in my opinion, based on my experiences with /self empathy, or /SE as Iwill be referring to it from now on.
Regeneration: Regeneration lets you regenerate more quickly from damage and effects. Regeneration offers almost no actual damage resistance, but your Hit Point and Endurance Regeneration can become so incredibly fast, that your wounds heal almost instantly. Those who possess this power set have little downtime, but risk the effects of spike damage.
This is from paragonwiki, though I'm fairly certain the in game description is the same. This, and the the ingame description would lead someone to believe that the main point of the power set is to regenerate any incoming damage, but if you take to much, to fast, that you are, well, screwed.
In actuality, the set hasn't played like that since purple patch, ED introduction, and "Alterations" in the powers themselves, as well as to tough and weave, which were the real culprits. The new cornerstone of regens survivabilty is not the sets name, regeneration, but the click heals. Yes, one of them does increase your total HP, there by increasing the amount of HP/s recovered. Both /Inv and /stone have the exact same power as well. Not to mention the fact that /sd has has true grit and /WP has
high pain tolerance.
Yes, /SE also has MoG, which when you activate this power, you gain Resistance and Defense to all damage types except Psionics, recover Endurance more quickly, and are highly resistant to Knockback, Sleep, Disorient, Immobilization, and Hold effects.
Res and Def. Not regeneration.
Finally we have IH.
In I3, Instant Healing Max Regeneration buff was slightly reduced. Additionally, it gains less of a boost from each added Enhancement. Making it less effective at regeneration.
In I4, they reduced the amount of Regeneration Buff that can be enhanced in Instant Healing, again, making the power set called regeneration, less effective at, wait for it, regenerating.
In I5 they made IH a click instead of a toggle because it was "to strong" and also added -regen to critters attacks. Took 16 issues to get -regen resistance. Hell, /WP had it when it came out, in a power that was a copy of /SE.
So, they took the cornerstane, and went to town on it with a sledge hammer.
The cornerstone of /SE is now a click heal, just like reform essence that PB's get, along with Dull pain. You know, the one that increases regeneration by increasing max hp. Just like /inv, /stone, and /PB's get. Of course those other powersets also have shields to increase there def/res. But /SE has more passive regen right?
I mean we get fast healing. Then again, so does /WP, and it gets it's +hp in a passive. And it has a toggle that increases it's regeneration to almost twice what regen does if surrounded, and debuffs the to hit if those around it. Yes, it's a small debuff, but it's a debuff none the less. And has toggles for res and def. and has had -reg resistance since it was released.
Hell, as mentioned earlier, even /SD has +hp from a passive, and has pretty respectable def and res, as well as +dam
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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I woul dlove to see MOG and shadowmeld both have shorter animation times. They do work quite well both of tem, but the problem you mention is pretty glaring since thier duration is so short.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
One of the things that annoy me is that when I am running towards mobs first and I think "Oh I better use Moment of Glory" then "Shazam" I stop for near enough 3 secs and end up running in behind the team.
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One thing Ido with Mog to get around it, is jump and activate it airborne, so I still hav forward momentum whle it's activating. It's not as muchforward as I'd like, but it does keep me up with the pack usually. well, sometimes.
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Revive really needs something added to it.
/DA's rez has a mag 30 stun, a 15 second untouchable window and if you happen to die surrounded by a horde of baddies as I tend to you will especially like the heal portion scaling with number of foes hit.
/FA does a boatload of damage, does large KB and has an untouchable window to toggle up in,
/WP heals for more and gives you some nice offensive buffs to crush whatever has killed you the 1st time.
Though Resurgence is in the same boat with Revive in not giving you any kind of protection to allow you to toggle back up.
Even as an avid farmer I am always happy to see a player set get buffed.
At this point even if the time to max tickets was tripled the biggest drain on my inf/min would still be rolling recipes, buying salvage, crafting and selling IO's.
PL'ing might be a bit slower for a short while until new ways to optimize xp gain are learned but that is just the nature of farming.
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I am cool with a buff to revive but if and only critters do not get this version of revive. Mog for critters is already the equivalent to them saying "F U your not getting full xp for me!!!!" due to the heal to full outside damage the power causes for them. I be damned if they get to do it twice to me. If they fix the mog xp problem then critters can get revive.
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Regen is a pretty good set, but it does need a bit of help to put it where it should be.
1. Give it 95% Regeneration Debuff Resistance. Regeneration is the set's keystone, just like Defense is Super Reflexes' keystone. SR is allowed to hang on to its Defense, Regeneration should be allowed to hang on to its Regeneration.
2. Let Revive cast the equivalent of Moment of Glory on you when you use it. Using Revive currently too often results in you just getting defeated again. This change would make the power worth more and make the set overall more fun.
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