City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Freedom? Hardly

2short2care

By 2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-09-06 24:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
But to claim that it will not be free to play when it clearly will be is just baffling to me.
Welcome to the world of semantics. People will argue for days what a particular combination of words means, even though it doesn't matter in the least, even though different people have a different understanding of it, and even though it's not directly related to the post. It's the easiest thing to do. Someone comes up with a detailed post containing ideas and titles it "Freedom? Hardly". Why waste time discussing details and ideas? Let's just discuss the word "Freedom".

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Feycat View Post
This is incorrect.

If you are a free player in that game, you get access to all the zones - but you only get QUEST ACCESS to the three starter zones - the equivalent of Galaxy, Atlas and Imperial City. In order to progress past level 20 or so, you have to either start going zone-to-zone and just grinding mobs, or you have to buy zone quest packs.

That is a LOT more restrictive than being able to roll all the way to 50 with full access to all contacts who aren't incarnate or Praetorian.
Except that most of the points I have spent unlocking that content I earned just by playing the game. No actual cash required.

Oh, and just to clear up your inaccuracy, the free quest content extends up to level 30 now plus the main epic storyline content is free all the way up to the level cap and beyond.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dark Sweater View Post
Welcome to the world of semantics. People will argue for days what a particular combination of words means, even though it doesn't matter in the least, even though different people have a different understanding of it, and even though it's not directly related to the post. It's the easiest thing to do. Someone comes up with a detailed post containing ideas and titles it "Freedom? Hardly". Why waste time discussing details and ideas? Let's just discuss the word "Freedom".
You obviously haven't been reading the thread.

People disagreeing with you and saying that the options they have in place now for free vs premium vs VIP IS in fact discussing details. Just cause they don't agree with your point of view doesn't mean they aren't discussing the topic at hand.

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Posted

The major flaw I see with Freedom is locking out non subscribers from the endgame (incarnates)

Its a ridiculously bad move. A lot of people that play other MMOs that are likely to be drawn to this game play for the endgame. The fact that CoH is holding that to ransom is somewhat ridiculous. Presumably a move to satisfy current subscribers that they are worth more than those premium/f2p types.

I personally have endorsed many f2p/hybrid games within my gaming community as it's easy to get a few people in when the price is nothing. Most of those people then go on to pay money for stuff within the game. I won't be endorsing City of Heroes simply due to the fact that some of the key features (crafting/base building/IOs/Incarnates) are far too restricted. (And I certainly don't agree with those that say teh other superhero MMO is less restricted, they completely subverted the whole game in order to make it work in f2p)

I hope CoH is successful, but personally this is likely to be my last month subscribing. I'll see how restricted I am as a premium before dropping any money on the new powersets, as I'd like to try those.

I'm one of those people that the premium system will probably push away for good. in the past I've subscribed for short bursts meaning I have 45 months veteran status on one account, 27 on the second, meaning I'll be short of what is needed for the invention system, which is the one thing that keeps me coming back. All of my 50s are IOed up. So in order to play them I'd need to resub each time which sort of defeats the whole point of premium.

 

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Originally Posted by UberRod View Post
And you know, LOTRO is doing quite fine with their own version of this kind of free to play model.

I'm not seeing the problem that the OP mentions. Just getting access to the incarnate stuff would make me want to plunk down $15/month for a subscription. And the added benefits of Premium come at a small cost.

You can't give away everything and still expect to make money, and as a business the devs do need to make money doing this, or soon there will be no game to complain about.

If you go into any free-to-play game and expect to have access to everything for free then you are being extremely naive. Want full access? Well then, subscribe to the game for $15/month.
Actually there are a vast amount of F2P games that give access to all content at no cost.

Look at most of the F2P games and you will find inventory space/appearance gear/xp boosts/consumables are the big sellers.

 

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Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
I'm one of those people that the premium system will probably push away for good. in the past I've subscribed for short bursts meaning I have 45 months veteran status on one account, 27 on the second, meaning I'll be short of what is needed for the invention system, which is the one thing that keeps me coming back. All of my 50s are IOed up. So in order to play them I'd need to resub each time which sort of defeats the whole point of premium.
...but if Freedom never came out, you'd have to resub each time to play them anyway...

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
You obviously haven't been reading the thread.

People disagreeing with you and saying that the options they have in place now for free vs premium vs VIP IS in fact discussing details. Just cause they don't agree with your point of view doesn't mean they aren't discussing the topic at hand.
I never said all the responses on the thread were like about semantics. There was enough of that though, and I answered someone who discussed that same subject, so please read it in that context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails View Post
...but if Freedom never came out, you'd have to resub each time to play them anyway...
If I had a month of subscription for every time someone said this I wouldn't need Freedom.

 

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Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
I must be one of the lucky exceptions, then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis View Post
I am? I didn't notice that I had been shafted. I have been enjoying my celestial costume items that I started the Freedom beta with.
I agree with these two about not feeling the least bit shafted.

 

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Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
Are you talking about those pre-order Gamestop enhancements?
Yeah - thought it was clear at the time - that's what I get for posting after playing 6+ hours.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
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Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
The major flaw I see with Freedom is locking out non subscribers from the endgame (incarnates)
I don't think that's a huge problem. CoH was never about the endgame, and people played it for years. CoH has a lot of other things going for it, and IMO it's one of the most fun games to play. There's no need to concentrate on the endgame because the road there is fun by itself, a lot less drudgery than in some other games. Add AE, and there's practically limitless play without a need for an endgame.

 

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Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
I'm one of those people that the premium system will probably push away for good. in the past I've subscribed for short bursts meaning I have 45 months veteran status on one account, 27 on the second, meaning I'll be short of what is needed for the invention system, which is the one thing that keeps me coming back. All of my 50s are IOed up. So in order to play them I'd need to resub each time which sort of defeats the whole point of premium.
That makes no sense. Previously you would have had to resub, post-freedom you will have to resub to get certain features. No idea why you feel hard done by? *shrug*

Plus if you have reached tier 7 you get life time access to the Invention system as well and at 45 months I think you are on Tier 6, so not long for you to sub before that happens. What are you complaining about?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
I'm one of those people that the premium system will probably push away for good. in the past I've subscribed for short bursts meaning I have 45 months veteran status on one account, 27 on the second, meaning I'll be short of what is needed for the invention system, which is the one thing that keeps me coming back. All of my 50s are IOed up. So in order to play them I'd need to resub each time which sort of defeats the whole point of premium.
So...now you can drop your 'sub' to $2 a month, instead of $15, and enjoy your IOs all you like. You can play, with IOs, every day for a whole year for less than the price of two month's subscription at current rates.

Why is that going to push you away? How is it worse than what you have now, which is $15 a month or no game at all?

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Posted

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Originally Posted by Jagged View Post
That makes no sense. Previously you would have had to resub, post-freedom you will have to resub to get certain features. No idea why you feel hard done by? *shrug*

Plus if you have reached tier 7 you get life time access to the Invention system as well and at 45 months I think you are on Tier 6, so not long for you to sub before that happens. What are you complaining about?
Because £10 spent on a sub is £10 that I would have spent on other stuff, be it costumes/power sets whatever. I would feel happier being able to return to the game and buy a powerset or some costume pieces rather than being forced to resub just to play my old characters.

I'm not complaining, simply stating that the way in which Freedom works will actively discourage some people from playing. People on these forums seem so happy to attack anyone that states they would rather play the game as a premium player.

 

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Originally Posted by Dark Sweater View Post
That's because you have VIP blindness. It's a common affliction which prevents you from seeing things from the POV of a returning player.
Still not seeing the bait and switch. If they are not paying any money and expect to get everything then they are just greedy. Thats it. Frankly bait and switch involves money up front. Not saying come and play for free and if you want the spiffy features you have to pay. That is not in any way shape or form bait and switch and anyone making that claim is just being ignorant or disngeneous.

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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan View Post
It is my understanding that IOs will be completely disabled for non-subscribers who have not taken steps to enable them. Frankly, I do find that somewhat problematic - not because the IOs themselves will be unusable, but because it is possible that a player will have to destroy IOs in order to slot functioning SOs. Asking a player to destroy prior investment in the game in order to continue playing it under the terms they are currently capable of affording does seem slightly harsh, to the degree that the previously available option - not playing at all - actually may seem more attractive under certain circumstances. That might be a problem.
Every character over level 10 has 2 builds available. They can simply switch to build 2 and slot it with SO's and when/if they activate/unlock IO's they can flip back to build one. Why would they be forced to destroy IO's?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
Because £10 spent on a sub is £10 that I would have spent on other stuff, be it costumes/power sets whatever. I would feel happier being able to return to the game and buy a powerset or some costume pieces rather than being forced to resub just to play my old characters.
I don't understand either. Today, if you don't have your £10 to spend, you don't get to do anything. How is it worse once Freedom comes around?

Edit: To be clear, it sounds like your worst case is that you have to remain a subscriber to maintain parity with what you have now. (Best case is you spend $2 a month). How is a worst case like that pushing you away? Bear in mind that a full subscription provides you with a stipend of 400 Paragon Points per month, meaning you can possibly save your £10 you want to spend on bonus features as long as you're willing to save up points to buy them.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
I'm one of those people that the premium system will probably push away for good. in the past I've subscribed for short bursts meaning I have 45 months veteran status on one account, 27 on the second, meaning I'll be short of what is needed for the invention system, which is the one thing that keeps me coming back. All of my 50s are IOed up. So in order to play them I'd need to resub each time which sort of defeats the whole point of premium.
I'm not seeing the problem here. You subscribe for a month get 400 points free unsubscribe and don't play for a month decide the month after that that you want to play so you spend 150 of your 400 points to unlock IO's for that month play then don't play then come back do the same thing and maybe the month after that you subscribe for a month and get another 400 points free and repeat.

I'm not seeing how your screwed here.

But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis View Post
I'm not seeing the problem here. You subscribe for a month get 400 points free unsubscribe and don't play for a month decide the month after that that you want to play so you spend 150 of your 400 points to unlock IO's for that month play then don't play then come back do the same thing and maybe the month after that you subscribe for a month and get another 400 points free and repeat.

I'm not seeing how your screwed here.
Where did I say I was screwed? You people seriously overreact when someone says something negative about your precious game.

Someone focused on one part of the original post I made and ignored the rest. The biggest negative for me is that Premium players can never gain access to Incarnate content. This segregates the player base into the haves and have nots which is never, ever a good thing. Judging by the tone of people on this forum anyway there will be a lot of elitism simply due to whether or not you are a subscriber.

It also doesn't help that once again people who jumped over from EU to US and therefore had two accounts ARE getting screwed.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis View Post
If they are not paying any money and expect to get everything then they are just greedy.
I think you have a misunderstanding of the word "everything". The other I think you don't get is that you look at "free" players as freeloaders, instead of the customers or potential customers that they are.

Quote:
Frankly bait and switch involves money up front.
Not at all. Look it up. Bait and switch is a manner of false advertising. It's the seller getting the customer to the store on false pretenses then trying to sell them a product. It's not exactly what's happening here but it's close enough.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
The biggest negative for me is that Premium players can never gain access to Incarnate content. This segregates the player base into the haves and have nots which is never, ever a good thing.
No, it segregates the player base into the "pays" and "doesn't pay."

In your case, the "haves" are actually the free/premium players who get to play for free. The "have nots" are those people, like us, who are now without 15 bucks a month.

If you really want to ragequit because they are giving people who are paying the game a fraction of the game for themselves, by all means. But it'd be the stupidest horse one could die on.

So your solution would be... give free users access to Incarnates?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser View Post
So your solution would be... give free users access to Incarnates?
He probably meant a monthly license like how you can pay a small amount and get access to Inventions and the Architect.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Sweater View Post
Not at all. Look it up. Bait and switch is a manner of false advertising. It's the seller getting the customer to the store on false pretenses then trying to sell them a product. It's not exactly what's happening here but it's close enough.
Uh, what? Making accusations like that is not the same as horseshoes or grenades: "pretty close" doesn't count.

If my local grocery store is having a sale that only their VIP card members can take part in, I can't call it bait and switch and throw a hissy fit in the produce isle.

There is no bait and switch here because there is no switch: even if the devs aren't calling it Free2Play, the game is free2play. The game is not free2MinMax or free2PowerGame. But a casual player would most likely never notice any of the things past tier 1 that are locked out.

Threads like these are the bait and switch of forum threads. You click them thinking that maybe, just maybe, the overly entitled meatheads would finally see logic posted by any one of us. But nope, switch time as the meathead just digs in their heels further and comes up with even wilder accusations about how Freedom is just a veiled attempt to replace your car's muffler with Cambodian babies.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Sweater View Post
Not at all. Look it up. Bait and switch is a manner of false advertising. It's the seller getting the customer to the store on false pretenses then trying to sell them a product. It's not exactly what's happening here but it's close enough.
And where is the false advertising here? They are making it clear what is and isn't available.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
Because £10 spent on a sub is £10 that I would have spent on other stuff, be it costumes/power sets whatever. I would feel happier being able to return to the game and buy a powerset or some costume pieces rather than being forced to resub just to play my old characters.
You are not forced to resub. I've played my heavily IO'd characters on Beta when they were locked out and they played fine. Just create another build if its that much of a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death_Badger View Post
I'm not complaining, simply stating that the way in which Freedom works will actively discourage some people from playing. People on these forums seem so happy to attack anyone that states they would rather play the game as a premium player.
But you are saying that this is "pushing you away" which I just don't get. If you carry on paying what you pay now you will get the same and more. If you pay nothing you will still get to play. You will have gained a lot. So it does sound like you are complaining that you won't get everything you've got today for free.

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Jagged Reged: 23/01/04

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser View Post
But a casual player would most likely never notice any of the things past tier 1 that are locked out.
Snip.

For most things I would agree - except the chat limitations: the Help channel is going to be very, very busy come I21 since that would be one of the few ways to communicate with others.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.