Freedom? Hardly

He did say past tier one, which includes lifting the chat limitations.

No they aren't. Go to the Freedom site, find me a place where IO's are mentioned.

See what I said above. What if the grocery store advertises that there's a sale for VIP's but Premium clients can buy produce at a discount, and it turns out they only get a discount on the rotten fruit?

Paragon isn't telling everything. Even a veteran subscriber here fell for the trap. Returning players who aren't frequenting this board will most likely fall for it.

If he says anything specific he knows it will be refuted. So all he can do is make vague allegations.

I would happily pay for access to incarnate content. though not on a ongoing license, simply a one time fee for access to incarnate abilities, then a further fee for each incarnate instance. Its a system that works for LOTRO and DDO.

You people need to get it into your heads that people that choose to play a game as a premium or free to play player are not freeloaders. I will quite happily spend money on a game if it is any good. i bought all of the content for both DDO and LOTRO as I prefer to do that than to have subs running for multiple games. The game is going with a hybrid model for a reason, premium and free to play players should be treat with respect rather than animosity as they are the people that will save the game.

Who is rage quitting? I just resubbed to the game so that I can 'sort out' my alts prior to the release of Freedom.

That was easy to refute.


Now are you going to claim that you didn't know that Inventions are IO's?

But if Freedom never comes out, then you still don't have access to Incarnate content unless you resub.

If it does, then you can resub like you do now and have access to Incarnate content like you do now.

I also have 2 accounts (one of which I very rarely play); how am I screwed? After Freedom, I will have 2 accounts; one VIP and one Premium. I will have gained the option of playing my spare account for free instead of having to pay money to play it.

No, I want the choice, as with LOTRO or DDO to be able to buy all of the content rather than have to sub.

Oh okay. This I understand. I don't agree, but I do understand. Carry on.

But Freedom IS coming.

The argument that 'what if Freedom didn't happen' is getting reused all of the time. And its pointless. Freedom is coming and obviously the game needs it to survive or it wouldn't be happening.

By entering the F2P arena CoH is competing with a lot of games for cash, its also competing with the subscription games. It needs to actually be able to get money from people, and honestly I've seen very little that would warrant me spending money on this game when there are several premium MMOs being released in the next year or so.

That's exactly what I mean. Rather than working for something the developers are giving impatient players a means to obtain something a lot of people have worked for. Instead of saying STFU and work for it they're enabling a generation of "instant gratification-ers."

To be fair other than the 'real world with aliens and monsters' game, all the others look to be themed clones.

Buh-bye. I kin haz ur stufz?

Yes, that's called being intelligent at business.

Having a series of rewards that most people will never have access to does not act as an incentive. It's just a waste of development time and effort.

That doesn't change what I said at all.

What zone quests are now unlocked? LOTRO's own page still lists free players as JUST getting Ered Luin, Bree and The Shire, with others unlockable. Has that changed?

And the epic quests will not level you all the way up on their own. So you are therefore, as I said, forced to either buy quest packs or grind mobs in successive zones.

Yes, I'm a Lifetime member there, I'm fully aware of that game. I'm SO much happier with the way CoX has (so far) announced they are going with this, instead of a system that ACTIVELY alienated and drove away veterans and lifetimers.

I wouldn't agree that's true about GW2 at all...

Not a subscription based game, though if we are talking 'all games'.

Well other games all coming out soon as well, I know they will eat up some of my reddies.

I thought the reference was to upcoming MMOs.

In that case, I'll register my agreement.

Says who? You? How many people did it take to develop Vet Rew? How long did it take for each badge? What percentage of their work week was designated to designing them? What percentage of pay roll did they take up designing the entire system from start to finish? I can guarantee you that VR didn't take up much resources that it was the straw that would break accounting's back. Yes every little bit counts but its a catch 22 you make more money by making all of these rewards available at the cost of pissing off your large existing player base that spent the time it took to obtain these rewards.

Well sure, for $15 for each Rewards token. To get a permanent Invention license at Premium level, for example, would be $15 * 27 = a "mere" $405. If that's "instant gratification," sure, let them have the reward if they want to shell that much money into a game. Especially if it's money going towards keeping the game running or developing cool new stuff.

Let me ask this question: who's the more dedicated customer, the one who spends $15 over several years to equal $x, or the one who spends $x up front? Both are giving NCSoft the same amount of $x.

Have I been against players being able to buy Vet Rewards in the past? Yes. But that was before the entire game switched to a F2P model. Arguably, with a F2P model, being able to purchase Vet Rewards with money makes sense. We're already monetizing everything else, after all, including access to things like /tells to Invention Licenses and purchasing entire IO sets outright. By all means, if someone wants to drop a few hundred dollars / euros in the Paragon Market to earn more Paragon Reward tokens, more power to them, IMPO.

I would have more sympathy for this position if there weren't web pages up with charts comparing the differences between the three membership tiers, as well as other pages that describe Paragon Rewards.

If people refuse to read about what they are joining up for then I can't see how the blame for that falls back on to Paragon Studios.

Wait, do you mean the ability to purchase IO sets off the market / merit vendors per normal, or will people be able to generate them out of nowhere with the paragon store for $$$?

Except most of the large existing base that took the time to obtain this ISN'T pissed off. I guess most of us don't have that "dog in the manger" mentality. If other people have what I have, it doesn't dilute mine at all.

I couldn't agree more. Let the new folks pour money into the system! The more the better!! Then I get new stuff and I haven't had to pay any more than what I already was! yay! This is like having totally random people stop by to buy costume boosters, which has previously been Paragon's only extra income and has appreciably boosted development.

Well, you notice he hasn't been back since the linking of the chart that CLEARLY shows IOs are listed on the reward chart.

No, I'm claiming I didn't know that "limited" meant "all your IO's are disabled".

Limited is a bit vague. In this case it means: pay $2 a month for an Invention License, or use 27 Reward Tokens for a lifetime license. Or purchase attuned IO sets from directly the store. Of course, that's all very wordy. Perhaps they can make a Knowledge Base article on this subject

In any case, Limited does seem to imply some sort of limits