Is defense softcap required for ITrials?
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-08-31 01:01 in Player Questions
Quote:
Required? Definitely not.| Is defense softcap required for ITrials? |
Useful and Helpful? Sure.
That said, keep in mind that on most of the iTrials I've been on (primarily BAF
& Lambda), there are usually several buffers and debuffers that will affect You,
and/or the Mobs.
It's not unusual to have a few folks casting staggered Barrier def buffs as well.
That said, also bear in mind that the softcap is higher in iTrials than the 45% it
typically is for standard content.
So, my advice? Build your AT the way you intended - if that's with softcap defenses,
fine... If not, don't sweat it.
Regards,
4
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...do you play on Freedom?
Seriously though, NO having your character at the Def Softcap is not in any way "required." You met a jerk who apparently has bizarre standards for what is required to play, and you are likely better off NOT having been invited to his team.
Hope you enjoy your ride to Incarnate Godhood! 
My Warshade did her first BAF and Lambda before she even had her Alpha unlocked. Plus, she was nowhere near having any defense softcapped as far as I can tell. So if she can get through those unscathed, then I think that makes the answer to the question a resounding no.
I wonder who this person was, i believe Trials have a increased tohit of 64%, the softcap in that case would go up to 59%.
Unlikely (without party buffs) any AT could hit this by himself, without investing massively on IO's or maybe being a defense based set.
Its helpfull, offcourse, but no where near 'required'.
I rather have a melee that knows what he does (behind boss, move from BaB when he nukes etc), then someone who is softcapped and thinks he can fight everything alone.
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Quote:
Yes, you did. There is absolutely no reason beyond personal desire for you to soft cap ANY character, blaster or not. I have been on the Incarnate Trials multiple times. I've done them with blasters that don't have any defense who didn't die once, and I've them of tanks and scrappers that are soft capped over the standard 45%, who've died multiple times. It's not because I can't play tanks and scrappers(I play those more than anything else) but just the league dynamic led to different circumstances. (Of course I've had trials where blasters died and my tanks survive unscathed as well.)|
Originally Posted by Deganji
did I just run into some jerk elitist?
|
If you want to rework your build, maybe use your second or third build to make a soft capped blaster you can... but that'll gimp your damage, which in my opinion, defeats the purpose of being a blaster.
Play your character the way -you- want to play him/her. Anyone who calls you a noob is not someone you should want to be playing with anyway.
I have a defensive long range Elec/Nrg build but she is nowhere near the softcap on her own. She does wonderfully in the iTrials although every once in awhile I get way too much love from NS during the BAF.
What is nice is that with the Incarnate powers I can finally add some of the extra damage I have been missing.
Welcome back and sorry that you were met by the idiot brigade.
Since the softcap is no longer the softcap in itrials, it's not a meaningful number to shoot for. That 45 is twice as good as 40 thing just doesn't apply.
Now, some def is nice in many situations, but I've been standing around with 120 def from buffs with nothing of my own, so sometimes any defense you bring with you will literally do nothing.
If you have 16 players with a mix of ATs, you all will be near or even above the soft cap even without any personal defense of your own thanks to group buffs. And that's not even figuring in the effects of all the debuffs on the foes.
Stay together and win.
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Makes me wonder if it's the person who I put on ignore after they said you sucked if you weren't softcapped. I've run trials on builds that have nothing, but common IOs slotted.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
...do you play on Freedom?
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Yeah, that 4 and lots of other posters said. It's nice, it helps, but a lot of leagues will get you there anyway with buffs. Also mentioned, you need 59% defense, not 45%, to get the same mechanical benefit in iTrials. (All the critters have what amounts to +14% toHit.)|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Required? Definitely not.
Useful and Helpful? Sure |
Between the availability of Barrier Destiny, and changes making the buffs in sets like Cold Domination and Force Fields into AoEs, it's generally easy to end up with lots of +def buffs. If you do have a build with a nice starting cushion of +defense, then that makes it easier to be highly survivable even if your leaguemates can't softcap you on their own.
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Unless someone went out of their way to avoid any enemies with debuffs or self buffs, the softcap wasn't even a fixed point before. The truth is, when it comes to defense, more is always better, but often not enough better to pay the price in cost or performance elsewhere. A non softcapped build *could* be a bad build, but it could also be a build with other performance priorities. And a softcapped build could be total rubbish, too.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
Since the softcap is no longer the softcap in itrials, it's not a meaningful number to shoot for. That 45 is twice as good as 40 thing just doesn't apply.
|
Yes, softcapping (to either 45 or 59) is a good rule of thumb, but that's all it will ever be.
So, not only did you run into a jerk elitist, but one that was either ignorant or moronic, too.
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What you have run into is the not-rare-enough Idiotus Loudmouthus. This creature can be found pretty much anywhere, unfortunately. The younger sort tends to do things such as you saw. The older variety tends to go into politics. |
Originally Posted by Deganji
I was excited to try out the new incarnate trials and headed to Pocket D to find a group. I ended up getting a tell from someone about it and I explained that I had just come back and it would be my first time. They said no problem, then asked if I was defense capped. I said no, and was called a noob and that was that. It kind of made me mad.
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Ignore them, keep walking, and enjoy the game.
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I would have laughed. You ran into an absolute and utter moron. MAYBE that line of questioning would have been okay if you were on a shield or ice tank *AND* you were the only tank. For any other AT to be told that . . . well, there was a noob in that conversation and it wasn't you.|
Originally Posted by Deganji
I was excited to try out the new incarnate trials and headed to Pocket D to find a group. I ended up getting a tell from someone about it and I explained that I had just come back and it would be my first time. They said no problem, then asked if I was defense capped. I said no, and was called a noob and that was that. It kind of made me mad.
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Most of my characters that I run the trials with have absolutely no defense at all except for whatever buffs teammates apply during the trial. Oh, wait, the character I run the most does actually have some defense - my scrapper has Combat Jumping. I think that's 2.5%.
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Good to know that the dude was a jerk. I was a little shocked since I've never run into that in CoH before, just that "other" game where you had to be an elitist to touch endgame content.
It worried me at first, but I guess stupidity knows no bounds. I'll head back to Pocket D later and see if I can find a non-jerk team. Thanks all, you're still the best MMO community I've ever seen.
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Quote:
My guess is they probably came from "that other game" and haven't learned yet that we don't condone that behavior over here. Soft capping is nice, but it's just a tool, not a requirement.
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Originally Posted by Deganji
Good to know that the dude was a jerk. I was a little shocked since I've never run into that in CoH before, just that "other" game where you had to be an elitist to touch endgame content.
|
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
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Wow, so sorry you got that as a welcome back and first foray into the Incarnate Trials!!
Yeah, absolutely untrue and not needed on ANY AT... never mind a Blaster, good grief, haha!
Anyway, yep, get back out there and forget about that nonsense!
Welcome back and I hope you enjoy it!!!
@Zethustra
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and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Most toons I have done the trials on have between zero and minimal defense and never found that to be any issue on the outdoor sections - some defense would be useful in the warehouse but even that doesn't need it - far less need it softcapped.
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Quote:
I know more about defense in this game than anyone dead or alive in or out of Paragon Studios. It is within that specific context that I am providing my evaluation of this particular situation. My conclusion, based on very careful analysis, is that the dude was a jerk wad.|
Originally Posted by Deganji
Hi all!
I recently came back to CoH after a break, unlocked my alpha slot, and through shard drops in regular missions and a couple TFs, got my alpha high enough for the level shift. I was excited to try out the new incarnate trials and headed to Pocket D to find a group. I ended up getting a tell from someone about it and I explained that I had just come back and it would be my first time. They said no problem, then asked if I was defense capped. I said no, and was called a noob and that was that. It kind of made me mad. I can understand a melee class needing it, but for a blaster I see no point in it. Seems to me that it would be nice for a solo blaster, but in a team situation it makes no sense to me as the tank should be keeping the mobs busy. My main has been around since Issue 1, and I've worked hard on his build. It works perfectly fine in all the teams I've ever been in, I'd rather not change it just for trials. Do I really need to change it, or did I just run into some jerk elitist? Figured it would be better to ask. If it really is required, I don't want to make a fool of myself. Thanks all. |
Only one of my Incarnates is soft-capped (my SR scrapper, obviously), and None are incarnate soft-capped (which are two different things: the soft cap is at about 45% defense, the incarnate soft cap is at about 59% defense due to the fact that some kinds of praetorians in the trials have higher base tohit).
My main - a blaster by the way - is a Master of Apex, Master of Tin Mage, Master of Lambda, Master of BAF, and one badge away from being a Master of Keyes. She would have to take a taxi to reach the same zip code as the soft cap. So welcome to the noobs without high defense club. What we lack in evasion we tend to make up in kicking *** and ripping badges from the cold dead hands of Praetorians.
Besides, every single trial has a hospital inside it with a contact that sells inspirations. Even if high defense was necessary, and its not although it can be useful, even the lowliest blaster can fill their tray with lucks in the hospital if they die and be basically Eluded for a high percentage of the trial (even if your defense is zero, using five at a time would place you at the incarnate soft cap and you can do that for four straight minutes: one death and you can stock up again and be Eluded for another four minutes even if you get no insp drops at all, and you'll likely get some; the trials tend to last less than twenty).
And even if you die who cares (unless you're going for a badge that requires not dying) because you have to be level 50 to participate in the trials anyway. Its not like it will low your progress to 51 by much: you die, you go to hospital, you stock up on insps, you come back out, you shoot stuff in the face again. Its like the worst the Praetorians can do to you is Teleport Foe you to the hospital. Big deal: that doesn't even break a nail.
Oh, and welcome back.
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!!!!|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I know more about defense in this game than anyone dead or alive in or out of Paragon Studios. It is within that specific context that I am providing my evaluation of this particular situation. My conclusion, based on very careful analysis, is that the dude was a jerk wad.
Only one of my Incarnates is soft-capped (my SR scrapper, obviously), and None are incarnate soft-capped (which are two different things: the soft cap is at about 45% defense, the incarnate soft cap is at about 59% defense due to the fact that some kinds of praetorians in the trials have higher base tohit). My main - a blaster by the way - is a Master of Apex, Master of Tin Mage, Master of Lambda, Master of BAF, and one badge away from being a Master of Keyes. She would have to take a taxi to reach the same zip code as the soft cap. So welcome to the noobs without high defense club. What we lack in evasion we tend to make up in kicking *** and ripping badges from the cold dead hands of Praetorians. Besides, every single trial has a hospital inside it with a contact that sells inspirations. Even if high defense was necessary, and its not although it can be useful, even the lowliest blaster can fill their tray with lucks in the hospital if they die and be basically Eluded for a high percentage of the trial (even if your defense is zero, using five at a time would place you at the incarnate soft cap and you can do that for four straight minutes: one death and you can stock up again and be Eluded for another four minutes even if you get no insp drops at all, and you'll likely get some; the trials tend to last less than twenty). And even if you die who cares (unless you're going for a badge that requires not dying) because you have to be level 50 to participate in the trials anyway. Its not like it will low your progress to 51 by much: you die, you go to hospital, you stock up on insps, you come back out, you shoot stuff in the face again. Its like the worst the Praetorians can do to you is Teleport Foe you to the hospital. Big deal: that doesn't even break a nail. Oh, and welcome back. |
Haha!
My name is the Electric-Knight (not really) and I approve of this message (really!).
P.S.
I am also a Blaster who would need to take three trains, two taxis, a puddle jumper and a bus to get into the soft-capped defense neighborhood.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
That's what I was thinking, lol. Why would I want a blaster on my team that is soft-capped for defense instead of having their damage-dealing ability maximized?|
Originally Posted by Gemesis
If you want to rework your build, maybe use your second or third build to make a soft capped blaster you can... but that'll gimp your damage, which in my opinion, defeats the purpose of being a blaster.
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To the OP, I just got back into the game recently too....about a month ago, and dove right into the incarnate trials with some of my 50s and haven't had any issues due to not being soft-capped. My regen scrapper isn't anywhere close to the soft-cap on defense....don't need it on a regen. That toon is a wrecking crew on the BAF and LAM trials. You'll get a ton of buffs and heals from the support toons on the trials but my regen scrapper has their own heals and I can always always hit Moment of Glory in a bind and I'll temporarily pass the increased trial soft-cap for basically everything but psionic damage attacks anyway. I'd say well over 90% of the BAF or LAM trials I've joined up for have been run very well by the League Leaders. Every once in awhile, you come across someone who has no business running a trial team. You just happened to run into one of those people.
You getting asked that question tells me the League Leader was probably planning for the team to play poorly and wanted as much of a safety net as possible. He's probably the same guy who puts together PUGs and think they can't complete missions without a "healer" there. Sometimes people just want a crutch for their own reckless play.
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There is quite a difference between calling out for a healer and claiming you need softcap for Trials.
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Originally Posted by PBAtty
You getting asked that question tells me the League Leader was probably planning for the team to play poorly and wanted as much of a safety net as possible. He's probably the same guy who puts together PUGs and think they can't complete missions without a "healer" there. Sometimes people just want a crutch for their own reckless play.
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Quote:
There's also quite a difference between people that think they can't complete a mission without a healer and calling out for a healer. I said people who think missions can't be completed successfully without a healer....and I'm sure you know the type of people I'm referring to. I didn't say people who call out for or request healers. I'm talking about dependence on healers, not a preference for them.
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Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU
There is quite a difference between calling out for a healer and claiming you need softcap for Trials.
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I'm not nearly so sure it's useful or helpful. See below:|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Required? Definitely not.
Useful and Helpful? Sure. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Now, some def is nice in many situations, but I've been standing around with 120 def from buffs with nothing of my own, so sometimes any defense you bring with you will literally do nothing.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gemesis
If you want to rework your build, maybe use your second or third build to make a soft capped blaster you can... but that'll gimp your damage, which in my opinion, defeats the purpose of being a blaster.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
Unless someone went out of their way to avoid any enemies with debuffs or self buffs, the softcap wasn't even a fixed point before. The truth is, when it comes to defense, more is always better
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And the origin of the term "the soft cap" was because more defense was almost never better. More defense (than the soft cap) is often completely wasted.
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I've hit the hard cap on the trials without running any of my defensive toggles. Zombie's right, there's a very good chance you'll be getting so much defense from league mates that you won't need any of your own.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
If you have 16 players with a mix of ATs, you all will be near or even above the soft cap even without any personal defense of your own thanks to group buffs. And that's not even figuring in the effects of all the debuffs on the foes.
Stay together and win. |
Hi all!
I recently came back to CoH after a break, unlocked my alpha slot, and through shard drops in regular missions and a couple TFs, got my alpha high enough for the level shift.
I was excited to try out the new incarnate trials and headed to Pocket D to find a group. I ended up getting a tell from someone about it and I explained that I had just come back and it would be my first time. They said no problem, then asked if I was defense capped. I said no, and was called a noob and that was that. It kind of made me mad.
I can understand a melee class needing it, but for a blaster I see no point in it. Seems to me that it would be nice for a solo blaster, but in a team situation it makes no sense to me as the tank should be keeping the mobs busy.
My main has been around since Issue 1, and I've worked hard on his build. It works perfectly fine in all the teams I've ever been in, I'd rather not change it just for trials. Do I really need to change it, or did I just run into some jerk elitist? Figured it would be better to ask. If it really is required, I don't want to make a fool of myself.
Thanks all.
GearTech 50 AR/Dev Blaster
FireFusion 50 Fire/Rad Controller
Spike Urchin 50 Spines/WP Scrapper
Sacrile 50 Earth/Fire Dominator
Necrosis Siren 50 DM/SR Stalker